Chile, Australia, CoT
Xavier Griffith
Chilean friends and my Fellow Australians,
You may have heard grumblings of late resounding around our Government, and around Australia. Some of you may know why, some of you may not, and some may just not really care. All are ok, but the last, you should at least know why, because it will probably affect you the most.
Once, many months ago, Australia and Chile were like this:
Both Chile and Australia were allies, along with New Zealand against Argentina, things happened, alliances made decisions and the next thing we know, Chile was being attacked. That’s about where my story ends, I left for a few months to regain my sanity. When I came back a couple of months ago, I found out that Chile had been wiped out, and returned with a vengeance and decided to wipe Australia and did not at the time have their own homelands, I didn’t want to get into details, it saddened me that Chile, once our allies, had acted no better than Indonesia and Argentina, and that we were now like this:
Discussions about changes in political stances globally began to appear, and one of the main alliances that has come up is CoT (Circle of Trust). For me personally, it’s a good alliance. It is predominantly a regional alliance, something I have thought a good idea and to our regions benefit, as one of the creators of the failed APA (Asia Pacific Alliance) which Chile was invited to join, CoT is in effect a watered down version of the APA. So of course CoT seems sensible to me. Our traditional allies, eUSA in particular are Pro-CoT as well, so politically and diplomatically it makes sense for us to lean towards that alliance.
That said however, we have the small problem of this:
There is some history which I am really not interested in knowing. I believe it has something to do with Administrations, but let’s face it, every country has had administrations that really should just never have been voted in. So basically, it comes down for me to this “GET OVER IT”. The time has come to bury the past and start from scratch. It’s obvious from what I have seen so far that neither Australia nor Chile trust each other very much, it’s a pity when we were once very close allies.
Our current administration has made diplomatic moves towards Chile, however has made demands on the people without keeping a constant supply of information which has only made things worse for most Australians, the main reason being that they have been trying to get Chile to return our regions, Chile doesn't trust us, the question is, to what level does all this come to a head? The unfortunate problem that has arisen with this Administrations lack of information, it makes it look like Chile doesn't want peace at all.
There is one question I think that needs to be asked and answered first:
1. Does Chile WANT to return our regions (irrespective of capacity) so we will be back on the map?
If the answer to that question is Yes from the Chilean Government, we have something to work towards, if no, we have nothing to work towards and both our time is wasted.
Neither side is going to be happy with giving up anything while there is a fear of betrayal, the next question answers that, but both nations are going to have to come to an agreement. 1 Region is not enough for us to rebuilt after being wiped for so long, without rebuilding we will be unable to assist our allies in the defence of their own nations, and one of those allies would once again be Chile.
The second question if the first is Yes, is:
2. Should we join CoT? As has been mentioned, aligning our MPPs with CoT members and Pro-CoT nations is really nothing different to what we had, because many of our original allies have moved to become members of CoT themselves or are Pro-CoT anyway. CoT therefore is the right political option for us.
There is no way that we can win a war and hold any regions we do win; Chile is far too strong with a much bigger population than we have.
Some form of mutual agreement has to be reached and needs to be kept by both sides, CoT can ensure that is done. Without this occurring, this constant battle will go on, draining both nations and do neither any good in the long run.
I pray this can occur for all our sakes. Trust NEEDS to be regained on both sides.
Regards
Xavier Griffith
Born: Oct 18, 2008
17 x Term Australian Senator
2 x Term Australian Prime Minister
4 x Term Senate Speaker
2 x Term Australian Inspector General
7 x Term Australian Cabinet Member
Comments
Yes, I know there are other issues within Australia that need to be worked out as well, but we need to sort this issue out first and foremost before we go any further.
Trust is the issue, but so is greed. While Chile refuse to make a decent offer, some of us will continue being as painful to them as possible, and with Argentina fighting the RW's in eAus, keeping hold of our regions will indeed be a costly exercise.
As I said on the Forums Larni, Chile is on an Imperialist High, we would be no different if the roles were reversed and it was us holding their regions. Get over the past, it has to start somewhere, but I agree, the offer of one (1) region isn't enough. But we still need to find how Chile would answer the first question before anything else happens.
We don't have to join CoT...MPP's not alliances...we are independent.
Those are fair viewpoints. The difficulty has been (which was covered in eAus BTR last night) that some of the countries we've been in bilateral discussions with actually have - and I never thought it was possible - heavier and more complex bureaucracies than eAus. As of 1700 eRep today there was a meeting of our eChilean counterparts to decide on our counter offer, which is merely a _first_ stage towards a much broader agreement. It needs to move slowly on purpose to cater to the realignment
There has never been any factor restricting Chile from returning some of our regions voluntary. Now they require our allegiance and payments of gold. It's just not gonna happen. Aussies don't get dictated to like that.
I'm not feeding the trolls but as has been pointed out, why would they provide regions to a country who is their enemy in-game? This is where the eAus Senate has provoked the situation with eChile and trying to block the very mechanic that will enable the pact and get the regions back, No pact - no regions. Not rocket science.
interesting.
Nice article, voted.
Hyuu, I understand what your getting at, and it still may not come to pass, but a strong move to join CoT would put any agreement in stone as the alliance would hold successive Governments on both side to the agreement. MPP stacks would be similar so the loss of nearly all your MPPs for breaching the agreement would be devastating for either party.
@infin: payments of Gold?? I don't remember seeing anything in the Chilean Treaty proposal presented by the CP asking for Gold at all.
@infin: payments of Gold?? I don't remember seeing anything in the Chilean Treaty proposal presented by the CP asking for Gold at all.
x2
That treaty hah - they will do the standard trick of finding reasons to delay or change the game. Ask MoFA... this deal isn't sealed by a long shot.
Trust is a two way street & agreements can only be made between equals.
Part of me would love to see an honest agreement as the first step in a friendship (like once was)
Another part of me knows that this will occur when pigs start flying
i wouldnt take worry about the eUS.
There flip flopping between allys for awhile.
CoT and USA will not last. As long as CoT and TWO(Serbia) are close. USA will never fit in.
Chille offered Argentina NAP, and they waiting 3 days for answer. What will happen if Argentina accept NAP? Chile will enjoy in bonuses from their new colony Australia like now and nobody will help Australia in RWs.
COOL STORY ALIMILANO
hows your allegiance to eCroatia going?
Sounds boring. Boring boring boring
alimalano, having personally supplied while we were fighting, I can tell you that while there were some Argentinians fighting for us, if they ever made a difference I'd be shocked. Either way, it was simply because we were fighting chile, not due to us being an "ally". And to everyone who says we can simply MPP the whole of CoT and not actually be a member? Grow the f--- up.
"and with Argentina fighting the RW's in eAus, keeping hold of our regions will indeed be a costly exercise. "
You're so cute when you act like an innocent puppy < 3
If Argentina would help you, you'll have at least 50% of your country back, i mean.....c'moon xD
2 or 3 avatars in your RWs is not eArgentina.
"And to everyone who says we can simply MPP the whole of CoT and not actually be a member? Grow the f--- up"
Why not? eNZ started & looked at u and looked at eIndo & mpp'd everyone that eIndo had mpp'd.
It's more enjoyable playing eRep without biting a pillow the whole time.
Daanitha, it wasn't any Aussies dropping the 130mil in that D4 round the other day. I checked and they were Argies.
Ok Larni, if you are happy with that, it´s ok.
Would be a miracol as Chile to give back our regions.
May be the miracol of Chrismas. Wake up, it's just a dream.
Danni, I wasn't happy at all... I did 10mil and was top 2but by the end I wasn't even on the list of top 5 lol
@CC: THESE PILLOWGAMES ARE SOMETHING DIFFERENT, THESE ARE PLAYED WITH 2 MAN NOT ON A COMPUTER SCREEN
oops sorry about the CAPS
Hi, i'm Femto666, vCP of Chile.
Chile wants to return your regions, Chile wants peace with Australia.
But there's a long way between our actual situation and a friendship relationship.
We're clear to return 1 region on December 20th, maybe Northern Territory.
You'll have congress elections again.
But we ask for a couple of things:
- no MPP with ARG
- don't fight against Chile
- don't send NE to Chile
- leave, for 1 or 2 months, 200k cc in guarantee with another country in case that you send NE
- return of a second región will be talking in the next goverment, not now
Why we ask for this things?
Because we're not friends now, because in the past months we returned 1 region and you inmediately sent a NE against us helping ARG.
And that's everything, there's nothing else.
If we want to be friends we must do some things: we're giving back 1 region and giving congress to Australia, what we ask? accept the proposal we already sent days ago to your PM.
Bye.
Femto666
vCP Chile
Btw, the thing about you being members of CoT don't have any direct relation between we being friends, ok? CoT has a protocol to be part and you must follow that, we're only a country member, not the one that choose who's in and who's out.
@Femto: We have tried and tried to work something out with you this term, our counter offer was reasonable, and it was a way forward in the right direction. What you ask is not just a slap in our face, but it displays your complete lack of willingness to put some faith in this deal. I will say now, that 200k to a foreign country will not be do-able, Senate will never agree to it, and quite frankly, I would never agree to it.
You need to show us some faith and trust also, or any future relationship is already doomed. Accept our counter offer and we move forward, dont, and Im not sure we can move forward, which would be extremely unfortunate.
the 200k seems rather new... though if we're going to even consider an assurance such as that I would demand one in return as well.
our gvt get answer via comment in article, EPIC FAIL of this gvt
Alimilano, its not even an official Gov article either lol
😁
This
But it is more the arrogance of Chile that is on show here.
"leave for 1 or 2 months, or even 3 or 4, or maybe when the cows come home
and if we feel the need & you have been "good" maybe we will think about it"
Bye
Femto 666
vCP Chile
well how does it feel? You have done a really good job Australian appeasers
obviously Chile respekts us Yo
@whiterd1: "You need to show us some faith and trust also"
¿Why?, people learn based on experiences and histpry, and last time we offered a territory, your cp delayed answer, you couldnt elect a congress, and finally, u sent us a NE...(ur welcome guys!!). Even before, you were closer friends of our enemies: Argentina, and some of our players still remember you behaviour like a bretrayal against us.
Under a rational point of view you are completey wrong: we must not show some trust or faith.
That is the reason why for chilean goverment is pretty difficult convence to chileans in relation to any knid of agreement with you.
@Pescaman: I understand your argument, I've seen it repeatedly, but shall we keep looking to the past? Should we keep using what not so bright Govt's that shouldnt have been elected to start with, as an excuse to not move forward? We have shown faith in you by giving a ceasefire for this entire term so far, this, if nothing else should show our intentions.
Nonetheless, we await a reply from Femto to say whether our counter offer is "officially rejected". Its a shame if we cant move forward and continue to get stuck on past disagreements. I am not interested,personally, on discussing any past issues, that will only lead to further disagreements, you think youre right, we think we're right, and there is no point. I am interested in the future, and a relationship built on trust, but we both have to give a little to get there.
Thanks you Femto for Chile's answer. I do tend to agree that the offer is not acceptable. I do understand Chile's misgivings as well, especially as I said, we had some Administrations that caused issues. But your own Government has caused issues as well, and I'm not talking about now, I'm talking about in relation to Pescaman's comment. That was your own stupid governments fault back then Pescaman, even Chile has elected stupid governments as has every other country. Did you expect us to fight against TERRA because your own Government's actions caused it to be kicked out of that Alliance?
@whiterd1/Xavier Griffith
My point is not based on discussions about past.
My point is more politic if u prefer. The point is that the most of persons consider past a the main source of experience or knowledge.
Under that assumption, chilean goverment needs "to sell" the agreement in stronger terms than something so fuzzy as faith or trust to chilean people.
Consider this, if there is not trust, if Chile earn nothing with agreement (just more risk), the only reason to sign it is the willingness and the ideologic reject to concept of "empire". Tell me: ¿would be enogh for any goverment?, In our position, ¿Would be enough for you?
You don't make outrageous demands when your opponent holds all the cards. You make reasonable ones, you take the one region that you are offered and don't start demanding more. You act in good faith and you will get more regions. You make idiotic demands and you will get nothing.
Valentyme, don't talk about trust here. NZ screwed Aus over to let Chile invade us in the first place, even though we had a written deal for a land swap/training war. Your CP went against that written deal. Don't talk about trust.
@Pescaman: I understand what your getting at. Would we do it, I can't answer that for, each CP, irrespective of country sees things differently. Would I do it, yes I would. In fact I have done it, well I offered it, Indonesia rejected the offer, only to find themselves months later needing what was offered and came begging for it, only to be refused. Chile has been in our situation itself, it may find itself in the same situation at some point in the future once again, wars and nations ideas change quickly in this game. If the situations were reversed, what would Chile do?
@Binda33 don't be an idiot. I said nothing about trust. Why don't you actually reply to the comment that was made, and stop being a moron.
@Xavier Griffith.
Yes we were in the same situation and you know what we did? Never asked for a NAP, never thought in join to EDEN.... We just fought for our allies and waited for our opportunity to get back our originals
So, we are offering to you more than we received for Argentina.
Think about that before asking for more regions and frienship....
😁^
I did not know that Chile still has court jesters.
I thought they went out of favour way back in the middle ages
@rforster: so what your saying is that we should continue to fight for our current allies, sit back and wait, then when Chile is down on pop and not expecting it, ask Argentina to help us wipe Chile from the map again? Not something I would like, I've never liked the idea of fully wiping a nation for any reason.
They are called negotiations for a reason, you come to the table with what you want, we come to the table with what we want. Then you try to meet in the middle or find a deal that is acceptable to both. If you say 'this is what we want and the deal is final' that is a demand and then there is no point in negotiating.
From what I can see in this article Chile now have posted their demands. They have even added more clauses to their original proposal, Seems to me that Chile want the talks to fail.
While I hope its not true, 😁^ this seems to be the case. We can but wait and see for the moment.
If Chile actually wanted to make a deal they would not keep adding obstacles.
Let's talk about trust. This is the same Chile who ganged up with New Zealand to screw over Australia after we helped keep Argentina at bay. This is the same Chile who rebuffed Australian MPPs even though we exposed USA and Argentina's collusion to get them kicked from TERRA. This is the same Chile who turned down a regional alliance with Aus in CSC even though we were happy to choose them over an intractable Argentina. This is the same Chile who invaded Australia when we had an agreed land-swop deal with one of their Allies thus abusing New Zealand trust. This is the same Chile who promised they would not stay more than 3 months (its now 6 months) because they were not like Argentina. This is the same Chile who delayed freeing a region for Senate election after they promised high and low and then turned it around as us backstabbing them.
Do not whine on about trust. Australia have been very magnanimous in the face of facts.
From where we sit, its Chile who needs to earn a little trust. But we don't ask it. True trust requires you to risk a little to set the tone. How much more can Australia give short of joining an alliance where you hold the veto over us surrounded by old adversaries?
Let's be honest here. Do Chile want empire? Admit it to yourselves and live with the ultimate consequence or behave with a shred of honour and take a leap of faith. That's how actual friendships are built.
😁