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CanIre Discussion Piece: Addressing Issues

Day 1,800, 13:02 by Jacobi
CanIre isn’t just about damage.



CanIre is about a union of military coordination, resource bonuses, a larger local common market, a more stable tax base, and the potential for expansion and to play a greater role in Western/North Europe.

It is about trying something new and fun, but in a way that we are building and creating something new, overcoming challenges and negotiating obstacles. Both Ireland and Canada have had issues with players whose idea of “fun” is to destroy, to steal, to inflict injury on our communities because they have nothing better to do. Being a part of a significant and interesting debate and change for both our countries give the rest of us, the good respected community players helping out their fellow teammates, an opportunity to do something that’s both novel and good.

There are of course challenges, and no one who supports this opportunity can deny it. But instead of thinking of an issue, finding one, and then declaring the idea dead let’s look at the individual issues created by the proposed merger and think up some solutions. As I said, there are a lot of creative people using their creativity in Canada and Ireland to screw with each nation…maybe its time to harness that creativity in a more productive way.

From the comments on both sides I’ve heard some interesting criticisms and if you’ll indulge me, I’d like to give some thought on each.

1. Ireland won’t give up its sovereignty.

A proposed merger with Canada does not necessarily have to be Canada taking Irish regions, but could instead exist as an Irish takeover of Canadian regions. As long as members of both communities can obtain the same citizenship, it’s immaterial under which flag we fly. Because of some historical real life issues I understand that there is some hesitation on the part of Irish citizens that would not be the same for Canadians. I certainly know some Canadians would want to stay behind in an enclave in NWT or PEI because they play specifically for the maple leaf, but I would suggest it’s a smaller proportion of our population especially when Ireland is not a threat to consuming the unique Canadian identity or baring Canadians from participating in political life(like it would be with a USA-Can merger)
Of course, the reason why Canada is more ideal to take on Irish citizens than vice versa is because of the limited availability of citizenships. I’ll talk more about that in the next point.

2. It would take forever to give everyone the same citizenship



Certainly would agree IF our intention was to give every Canadian or ever Irish citizen a citizenship of the other nation it would take a significantly long period of time, but we know this not to be necessary. Beyond the requisite nationalists who would stay behind to mind the store, the active populations of each country is a far more important figure than total population. For example, according to egov and recent election results Canada has approximately 500 actives hereas Ireland has about 200. Concentrating exclusively on active members, a de facto merger could be completed in as little as 10 days for Ireland to Canada, and about 2 months the other way around. And, frankly, by prioritizing it in this sort of fashion, the new nation might be able to minimize the influence of multis in elections.

January would probably be a lean month in terms of resource bonuses for Canadians waiting for Irish citizenship, but a possibility for minimizing disruption could be prioritizing citizenship for people with significant businesses, just as an example.

3. Market Licenses would cost a fortune



This is probably the problem with the most complexity, in that it would require both nations to figure out how many active citizens

I) Sell on their home markets (this is certainly not everyone, and is probably less than half)

II) Don’t already have a license for the other country (As an example, I already own an Irish license)

III) Don’t already sell on other foreign markets instead (many people sell to the US and will continue to do so regardless of the merger)

IV) Don’t currently have a free unused license (As an example, I have a free unused license because I didn’t want to commit to using it with another country…I might have two, not sure)

So, there would definitely have to be some sort of consideration for people who Sell, don’t have a license, don’t have another foreign license, and don’t have a free license to spare. I’m not entirely convinced this is a significant amount of people but more exploration of this particular issue is needed to be done. But that’s why we have plenty of time to think of these things and act on them.

4. RW Trolls will make the union unworkable


Specifically this guy

Although I can see how at first blush some people might find this to be a significant issue to me its almost an offhand dismissal. There are no issues with a union and RWs that aren’t also an issue with region swapping and RWs. (ie: just because there are several regions owned doesn’t mean we will be dealing with more RWs than if we swapped a single region)In fact, I would go so far to suggest that the diffusion of potential RW targets would cut down on RW frequency. Plus we benefit from the 24 hour RW limit that recently was placed into effect by the admins, meaning that we need to realize that we’d be dealing with 50% fewer RWs than before in any given time period. Finally the cost benefit of starting a resistance war has fallen significantly with the price of gold. I certainly don’t see this as more than a small annoyance with the bonus of a good market for True Patriot Medals to put them down.

Other comments like “it just won’t work,” “it’s a bad idea,” and other similarly unconstructive comments I’m not really interested in exploring until I can in greater detail and each of the benefits on their own.

But its important to realize that in most things we do on erepublik, we are benefitting from hardwork that our predecessors (or we did some years back) put in before that allow us to coast. This opportunity allows us to be builders too, to work within the confines and advantages of the modern game to give rise to something that could very well shake up how all Canadians and Irish play erepublik. It’s an exciting concept that I want to explore in a mature and rational fashion, and I’m eager to have you all debating with me along for the ride.
 

Comments

Sleep is for the weak
Sleep is for the weak Day 1,800, 13:44

Sorry bro..

I won't give up from Ireland. I like Canada, but only as ally...

I'd rather be wiped but in my own country. If I wanted to be a "big fish" I'd stay in Croatia or move to China or something. It's not what this game is all about.

Exalted Druid
Exalted Druid Day 1,800, 13:57

True Patriot gold rules. I believe If you switch countries you have to catch up to your current limit for the new country before you start collecting again.

The new country would have to have low import tax's so everyone can benefit.

People just have to think game and strategy instead of caring about a RL flag. If it was not for our rl attachments this would be a no brainer.

I also have a Irish licence.

Bhane
Bhane Day 1,800, 14:33

HAIL CANADIAN ALLIES !!!
I fight for you and with you.

FAIL CANADIAN MERGER !
If you want us to hold your regions for a while, that's fine. But a merger is never going to work in the long run. eIreland is too established with active players. It is not a dead zone of players desperate to find an active market. We are both thriving, there is no need for Eirenada.

Hail Eire !
Hail Canada !
Hail EDEN !

Addy Lawrence
Addy Lawrence Day 1,800, 16:36

" we need to realize that we’d be dealing with 50% fewer RWs than before in any given time period"

Cut that complaint in half, now did it

Venoms III
Venoms III Day 1,800, 17:51

The merger sucks.
If anything were presenting a good chance of pto for either nation.

People on both sides of the merger would have to stay behind to run the country.

We also have to take a look at how many people will actually be willing to change citizenship...

Let me ask you this Jacobear.
Rolo will never leave eCanada.

Would you be comfortable leaving the reigns of the nation in his hands?
\o/
Coalition~

Randall Flagg 1999
Randall Flagg 1999 Day 1,800, 19:22

Hmm, leave him in control of two territories and a handful of dead multi accounts.... Sounds fine by me, question is why didn't we do that sooner

crisfire
crisfire Day 1,800, 21:50

It would be awesome if a nation could just give up or be forced to surrender which would make this easier

id like to see this tried, i dont think itll work but if you can get a majority of both sides to agree to something then why not

Pants Magee
Pants Magee Day 1,801, 05:43

I don't have any market licenses for anywhere but eCanada

If people leave their country to another, it will be a LONG time before they see any RW gold from those troll RWs. You have to start over at 0 and get to yuor current next level point, which for me is 40 million.

I wouldn't have an issue changing citizenship except for ^^ as far as i can see at the moment.

Oh and the flag, while interesting is missing red. Put the red back in the maple leaf.

P. Magee

Jaffle
Jaffle Day 1,801, 08:14

I'm neither in favour nor opposed - it's just a game and roleplaying a sense of eNationlism bores me.

I would probably not switch citizenship - if I did switch citizenship, it might not be to Ireland.

Oinyo
Oinyo Day 1,801, 08:37

It would be a fun idea but Ireland will never go for it.
They are to proud and they have had too much IRL history for this to just be a game. this is much deeper than that.

You will find if we try this the mass majority will push and fight us.
it may end up killing the relationship we have.
Just look at every post from any Ireland Citizen. They are all 100% the same. they love us but they love us from afar.

I cannot see this working with Ireland.. Sorry for the negativity.

the grinch
the grinch Day 1,801, 09:42

oinyo, every post from any irish citizen, you mean here? There are two of them, hardly a vast majority, and hardly enough to be speaking for their country.

I would be interested in hearing how the politicians on either side will go about finding if their population actually WANTS to do it. Too many times I have watched politicians doing what they want rather than what should be done.

Several options:
A poll? If so where?
CP's running on the platform of merger/no merger

the grinch
the grinch Day 1,801, 09:47

I do think that that there is merit to the idea, at least merit into looking into it.

Perhaps having a discussion with Germany/Denmark people to get their thoughts/impressions and to get a better idea to the difficulties they faced?

Whatever the end result is, I think we at least owe it to ourselves to keep an open mind despite our initial reactions.

the grinch
the grinch Day 1,801, 10:26

I was looking at an irish article and I would say some are ok with it most aren't. I htink it was more to do with it being popped on them more than anything else. One person brought up a great point:

I am absolutely repulsed to see this, if you had the slightest clue of the recent history between Ireland and Canada you would see that Canada is amongst the most disgusting, repulsing community in the game with the incapability of even governing itself properly.

Oinyo
Oinyo Day 1,801, 10:37

ha yeah Grinch.. We are a split country with a huge internal war going on.
Many of the other countries see this split and want to avoid it (i cant blame them)
unified countries especially.

Sadly I cannot ever see us merging with any other country for that very simple reason.
They will join us. See Rolo's Side fighting Auk Rest and Diablo and leave. No one wants the drama and no one wants to inherit others drama.

This wont work. We are not ready for this and we may never be.

Oinyo
Oinyo Day 1,801, 10:42

Until we unify or one of the 2 sides leave we will be pretty much betting the other country to accept and tolerate our internal BS war that is ongoing forever.

Until we mature this what we are seeing right now is going to be our permanent future.
No one will want to ally us and defend us seriously.
No one will stick up for us.
We will be rolled over and over until we get our crap together.
The greed and hurt ego's have to go. it is killing us.

Sorry for the long emotional rant
Kevin

the grinch
the grinch Day 1,801, 11:50

oinyo, actually this could be the way to leave the trolls and troublemakers behind. Leave the trolls in the Yukon and the rest of the territories become irish. Let the malcontents to their own country and the rest of us leave. They can then attack us whenever they feel like it, and let us feel better smacking them down. Or they could attack Russia or something.

Of course it would all fall apart as soon as we get a corrupt fool in congress who accepts bribes and sells a citizenship

Maxwell Wolf
Maxwell Wolf Day 1,801, 12:04

the game should have a federation mode , where the two countries get to keep their governments, their regions , however a the two nations vote on one federal president ( chief of staff ) .. otherwise I think Ireland is more viable as an ally and a good friend ..

Oinyo
Oinyo Day 1,801, 12:09

Agreed Grinch.. Sadly as you mentioned.. it only takes 1 corrupt player to ruin it all and get them all in..

Leo Balzac
Leo Balzac Day 1,801, 12:14

I oppose any attempts at merging eCan and eIre.

Michael 23
Michael 23 Day 1,801, 12:21

I like eIreland but I really wouldn't want to fight under their flag and citizenship. eCanada is it's own country and in terms of the game we're a lot bigger and a lot more effective. In terms of Europe I think ePoland really limits our movements to only the North.

I'm all for the alliance if we, eCanadians, absorb eIreland, but definitely not for it in any other way.

Nevertheless, good article and good proposal by Jacobi and ElPatoDiablo.

Derphoof
Derphoof Day 1,801, 12:37

This idea just isn't going to happen. Simple as that.

Rylde
Rylde Day 1,801, 14:55

What F@ckin retards cooked up this lump of fresh dog Sh1t and called it pizza?

Lelouch Vl Britannia
Lelouch Vl Britannia Day 1,801, 17:30

"Sorry bro..

I won't give up from Ireland. I like Canada, but only as ally..."

You ppl wouldn't be giving anything up... in fact, you guys would be getting 10 provinces and 2 territories...

Jefflav
Jefflav Day 1,801, 19:55

I think that it won't happen just because both countries are loyal to their flag or citizenship or anything ! It just would never work ! It would be a pretty cool thing to do but personaly I would rather stay Canadian and I'm sure everyone would like that ! As of now we have a little bigger problem we need to get the polish out of here !

SpockPQ
SpockPQ Day 1,801, 20:27

Why Canada doesn't merge with France instead of Ireland?

OUI, OUI...

Pourquoi le Canada ne fusionnerait-il pas avec la France au lieu de l’Irlande?

http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-fr-en-canada-france--2145404/1/20

;o)

Funky 24
Funky 24 Day 1,801, 23:01

Such a balanced exploration of the issue.

Sweet Drinker
Sweet Drinker Day 1,802, 03:16

Somebody please explain the part where by adding the current irish soldiers to the current Canadian soldiers we somehow get more output.

http://www.erepublik.com/en/2145374/1/20

C. Buzz
C. Buzz Day 1,802, 07:41

I'm with Rylde on this one (if his expression is the same as my thoughts).

To think that many eCanadian citizens are ready and willing to practically drop our colours and take up eIreland's is obsured. I'm a proud Canadian, both in game and RL. I've said it to every piece of opposition who oppressed us: I will never abandon eCanada. I'll be joining Rolo in the North if this comes to fruition.

Derphoof
Derphoof Day 1,802, 07:49

Its not coming to fruition. There is no plan to expand this idea or act upon it.

This idea is dead.

 
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