Calculating Exploitation: an Interview with Osmany Ramon
Day 708, 08:58
•
Published in USA 
•
by
•
by Silas Soule
Calculating Exploitation: an Interview with Osmany Ramon
High up on Bear Mountain, deep in the caves of resistance, not too far from the SFP Zeppelin Port...
...your intrepid reporter had a chance to hang for a time with the awesome new retro death mariachi surf band, Bad Pandas, while they practised in preparation for an up-coming SFP rave.
After they finished up a hardcore re-mix of "Voodoo Astronaut" by Los Plantronics, I had a chance to sit down with socialist leader and lead guitar Osmany Ramon...
...for a brief interview.
As couriers came and went with urgent messages for him relating to the world liberation movement and the SFP Commune, comrade Ramon -- known to many simply as "the commander" -- graciously answered my questions while puffing on a Cuban stogie.
PQ: If a firefighter fights fire and a crime fighter fights crime, what does a freedom fighter fight?
OR: Smacks PQ upside of the head.
PQ: Ha! Just kidding. Moving right along...
PQ: Commander, you've been extremely active organizing the Socialist Freedom Party. During your term as Party President, you were one of the key people who turned it into a pretty well functioning organization. You've also made the SFP into something of a model for leftist parties in the world, not to mention keeping it in the top 10 in the USA for some time. I mean wow, that is quite an accomplishment for a Socialist party.
What's motivated you to be so active in a relatively small party?
OR: As a real life Marxist, I knew in playing this game that I was going to join a far-left party from the beginning. The SFP provided the opportunity to build a socialist party in-game and allowed me to play-test some of my ideas from studying political science and philosophy.
After a while it also became clear to me that the politics of the eUS were very underdeveloped and so once the party was established and functioning, I wanted to change that. There were very few significant differences between the top-5 parties. But in the smaller parties there are some interesting things going on with ideas that challenge the status quo and real political differences, particularly in the SFP and the Federalist Party.
Plus smaller parties tend to have more welcoming communities.
PQ: You've often spoken about how exploitation is built into eRepublik. Care to elaborate?
OR: The economic system in this game is a very vulgar version of real life capitalism but in essence, it functions in exactly the same way.
Unfortunately for the eBourgeoisie, the admins made it easy for workers to calculate their exploitation.
Here's my basic argument: For the sake of simplicity, assume you run a Q1 raw material company. You have laid out 20 Gold in fixed capital for the company but that value is static. The company retains its value, none of it passes into the finished product. There is no rent, no utilities, and there are no machines in this economy, so fixed capital is completely contained in the company.
You hire 10 workers and again for simplicity, say they each make 10 units of raw materials per day and and 1 unit of raw material is equal to 1USD. You would produce in one day 100 USD worth of products.
If you pay each of your workers the full amount of their labor, you would pay them each 10 USD with nothing left over. So where does profit come from? It can only come from exploitation, from stealing. If you, as the manager, are working for the company as well, you may collect a wage for that which you have produced without it being exploitation. You take your 10USD but anything above that has to be coming from “surplus” labor of the other workers.
Prisoners of e-exploitation
Now some may argue that profit comes from “the market” and “supply and demand” but those don’t have any different effect on communes than they do on capitalist companies. If the price of the raw material rises or falls in either situation, wages would be raised or lowered just the same in either situation. What you have to consider is not the price on any given day but the socially necessary labor required to produce the commodities.
This exploitation is easily avoided in communes and profit share companies where there is joint ownership of the company by those who work for it. You cannot exploit yourself.
PQ: SFP member Fredrick Engels has written quite a bit about the Commune system in the Workers Digest, especially in terms of how he thinks it could develop over time. I know you've been very active in helping to set up and manage the SFP Communes as they currently exist. Could you tell us a bit about what's worked well, what hasn't, lessons learned on that front?
OR: The theory behind communes is very simple but the practice presents many challenges in eRepublik.
Probably one of the biggest problems we have faced is in coming up with ways for collective decision-making to take place. It’s difficult to get everyone participating at the same level, checking the forums, and such so we have had mixed success with that aspect of the communes.
Of course the bane of any commune director’s existence is having products sniped off the market and the captchas but for the time being, there’s not much that can be done about that.
PQ: Congratulations on being elected as the new Chair of the Internationale. Could you say a little about what the Internationale is -- and what are your ideas and hopes for that organization?
OR: Thank you.
The Internationale is simply a Congress of far-left parties from around the world, typically socialist and communist but we also have some anarchists. There are 16 parties from 15 nations so far and we are simply working together to form a more cohesive global socialist movement.
Much of the work I would like to see the Internationale undertake is creating an environment of international solidarity and exchange of ideas, foster greater cooperation among the world’s communes. As the first Chairman of the new Internationale, my role is going to largely be guiding the creation of the Internationale’s bylaws and helping set precedents for future Chairmen to follow but it is important work and I am enjoying it.
PQ: Do you think there's any meaningful relationship between leftist game-play and real life? I'm not talking about bringing real life politics into the game. I mean the other way around. Where I'm going with this is...
Phoenix pauses, deep in thought
PQ: The far-left, such as it is, in the USA is wildly sectarian, with dozens and dozens of little grouplets and sects. The SFP has been fairly successful -- in a virtual world -- in pulling together virtual leftists with a wide variety of perspectives. Any chance this dream will ever have some cultural blowback into the real world?
OR: I am torn on this. On the one hand, our ability to stay cohesive in the eUS may have more to do with the relatively short history of eSocialist thought in game.
The game mechanics are fairly simple and so there just may not simply be fundamental enough differences to be had between different eSocialists. It will be interesting to see where we are in one year and beyond.
On the other hand though, in this game as I am with real life, my focus is on very concrete issues and finding the answer as a group and not merely forcing socialist dogma. Typically real life and eSocialists will agree on the problem but they are divided on the solution. The Socialist Freedom Party agrees on the problems facing workers of the world today and we have come up with solutions as a group.
It also helps that the SFP does not suffer from the egomania that has plagued some socialist parties in other nations.
PQ: What's the most fun thing about eRep for you?
OR: I like problem solving so my favorite parts of the game are when we are pushed into extreme positions and have to think our way out of them. I also have to give a shout out to the people in game that I work with frequently. They make the game interesting and its forcing me to remember my philosophy and political science studies.
PQ: And what's the most annoying thing about it?
OR: My least favorite part of the game is definitely the cheating that goes on. There’s no way to stop it and the admins do a decent job of responding to it when it arises. It comes with the territory of such a game and its regrettable.
PQ: Do you have any advice for new players?
OR: 90% of the fun in this game happens on IRC and on forums. Find a community in game that you like and get involved.
PQ: And what's your advice to more experienced players?
OR: Those who forget their eHistory are doomed to repeat it.
High up on Bear Mountain, deep in the caves of resistance, not too far from the SFP Zeppelin Port...
...your intrepid reporter had a chance to hang for a time with the awesome new retro death mariachi surf band, Bad Pandas, while they practised in preparation for an up-coming SFP rave.
After they finished up a hardcore re-mix of "Voodoo Astronaut" by Los Plantronics, I had a chance to sit down with socialist leader and lead guitar Osmany Ramon...
...for a brief interview.
As couriers came and went with urgent messages for him relating to the world liberation movement and the SFP Commune, comrade Ramon -- known to many simply as "the commander" -- graciously answered my questions while puffing on a Cuban stogie.
PQ: If a firefighter fights fire and a crime fighter fights crime, what does a freedom fighter fight?
OR: Smacks PQ upside of the head.
PQ: Ha! Just kidding. Moving right along...
PQ: Commander, you've been extremely active organizing the Socialist Freedom Party. During your term as Party President, you were one of the key people who turned it into a pretty well functioning organization. You've also made the SFP into something of a model for leftist parties in the world, not to mention keeping it in the top 10 in the USA for some time. I mean wow, that is quite an accomplishment for a Socialist party.
What's motivated you to be so active in a relatively small party?
OR: As a real life Marxist, I knew in playing this game that I was going to join a far-left party from the beginning. The SFP provided the opportunity to build a socialist party in-game and allowed me to play-test some of my ideas from studying political science and philosophy.
After a while it also became clear to me that the politics of the eUS were very underdeveloped and so once the party was established and functioning, I wanted to change that. There were very few significant differences between the top-5 parties. But in the smaller parties there are some interesting things going on with ideas that challenge the status quo and real political differences, particularly in the SFP and the Federalist Party.
Plus smaller parties tend to have more welcoming communities.
PQ: You've often spoken about how exploitation is built into eRepublik. Care to elaborate?
OR: The economic system in this game is a very vulgar version of real life capitalism but in essence, it functions in exactly the same way.
Unfortunately for the eBourgeoisie, the admins made it easy for workers to calculate their exploitation.
Here's my basic argument: For the sake of simplicity, assume you run a Q1 raw material company. You have laid out 20 Gold in fixed capital for the company but that value is static. The company retains its value, none of it passes into the finished product. There is no rent, no utilities, and there are no machines in this economy, so fixed capital is completely contained in the company.
You hire 10 workers and again for simplicity, say they each make 10 units of raw materials per day and and 1 unit of raw material is equal to 1USD. You would produce in one day 100 USD worth of products.
If you pay each of your workers the full amount of their labor, you would pay them each 10 USD with nothing left over. So where does profit come from? It can only come from exploitation, from stealing. If you, as the manager, are working for the company as well, you may collect a wage for that which you have produced without it being exploitation. You take your 10USD but anything above that has to be coming from “surplus” labor of the other workers.
Prisoners of e-exploitation
Now some may argue that profit comes from “the market” and “supply and demand” but those don’t have any different effect on communes than they do on capitalist companies. If the price of the raw material rises or falls in either situation, wages would be raised or lowered just the same in either situation. What you have to consider is not the price on any given day but the socially necessary labor required to produce the commodities.
This exploitation is easily avoided in communes and profit share companies where there is joint ownership of the company by those who work for it. You cannot exploit yourself.
PQ: SFP member Fredrick Engels has written quite a bit about the Commune system in the Workers Digest, especially in terms of how he thinks it could develop over time. I know you've been very active in helping to set up and manage the SFP Communes as they currently exist. Could you tell us a bit about what's worked well, what hasn't, lessons learned on that front?
OR: The theory behind communes is very simple but the practice presents many challenges in eRepublik.
Probably one of the biggest problems we have faced is in coming up with ways for collective decision-making to take place. It’s difficult to get everyone participating at the same level, checking the forums, and such so we have had mixed success with that aspect of the communes.
Of course the bane of any commune director’s existence is having products sniped off the market and the captchas but for the time being, there’s not much that can be done about that.
PQ: Congratulations on being elected as the new Chair of the Internationale. Could you say a little about what the Internationale is -- and what are your ideas and hopes for that organization?
OR: Thank you.
The Internationale is simply a Congress of far-left parties from around the world, typically socialist and communist but we also have some anarchists. There are 16 parties from 15 nations so far and we are simply working together to form a more cohesive global socialist movement.
Much of the work I would like to see the Internationale undertake is creating an environment of international solidarity and exchange of ideas, foster greater cooperation among the world’s communes. As the first Chairman of the new Internationale, my role is going to largely be guiding the creation of the Internationale’s bylaws and helping set precedents for future Chairmen to follow but it is important work and I am enjoying it.
PQ: Do you think there's any meaningful relationship between leftist game-play and real life? I'm not talking about bringing real life politics into the game. I mean the other way around. Where I'm going with this is...
Phoenix pauses, deep in thought
PQ: The far-left, such as it is, in the USA is wildly sectarian, with dozens and dozens of little grouplets and sects. The SFP has been fairly successful -- in a virtual world -- in pulling together virtual leftists with a wide variety of perspectives. Any chance this dream will ever have some cultural blowback into the real world?
OR: I am torn on this. On the one hand, our ability to stay cohesive in the eUS may have more to do with the relatively short history of eSocialist thought in game.
The game mechanics are fairly simple and so there just may not simply be fundamental enough differences to be had between different eSocialists. It will be interesting to see where we are in one year and beyond.
On the other hand though, in this game as I am with real life, my focus is on very concrete issues and finding the answer as a group and not merely forcing socialist dogma. Typically real life and eSocialists will agree on the problem but they are divided on the solution. The Socialist Freedom Party agrees on the problems facing workers of the world today and we have come up with solutions as a group.
It also helps that the SFP does not suffer from the egomania that has plagued some socialist parties in other nations.
PQ: What's the most fun thing about eRep for you?
OR: I like problem solving so my favorite parts of the game are when we are pushed into extreme positions and have to think our way out of them. I also have to give a shout out to the people in game that I work with frequently. They make the game interesting and its forcing me to remember my philosophy and political science studies.
PQ: And what's the most annoying thing about it?
OR: My least favorite part of the game is definitely the cheating that goes on. There’s no way to stop it and the admins do a decent job of responding to it when it arises. It comes with the territory of such a game and its regrettable.
PQ: Do you have any advice for new players?
OR: 90% of the fun in this game happens on IRC and on forums. Find a community in game that you like and get involved.
PQ: And what's your advice to more experienced players?
OR: Those who forget their eHistory are doomed to repeat it.
Facebook
Twitter
Discord
Comments
First.
How is it stealing from a worker when you pay them what they agreed to?
Nice interview
I might "agree" to do a whole lot of things in an exploitative system that would still be exploitation. Women might "agree" to serve as prostitutes. Young Mexicans might "agree" to serve in the American army in exchange for citizenship. We all "agree" to do lots of things for our parents that we don't really want to do!
Let's not force everything into a false dichotomy of "stealing" or "agreeing". I think there are lots of human interactions that fall somewhere in between on the spectrum of consent and coercion. The question is, how do economic and political structures constrain your choices so that what is in fact an exploitative relation appears to you to be a "free" choice?
To extrapolate on what david said, do people have a choice? If you don't work you don't get food and if you don't get food you die. However thanks to the commune system people now do have a choice. The problem is that many people don't know that because lets be honest our media isn't widely circulated or voted very high. This is because people don't understand the simple truths we state. It's not that they are complicated its that people don't want to accept them most of the time. The rest of the time they do and so they accept them.
Another point to make is that this is not a real agreement. You as a business owner did not individually go to your workers and say how much would you be willing to work for. You simply offered a wage on the job market and assuming it was the best for the quality of work provided they were forced to either take that offer or make less money. You hold survival over someones head and ask if they want it of course they are going to say yes. Many people will kill to avoid being killed themselves. That doesn't mean they agree to killing someone but that they agree even less to being killed themselves. There is more detail involved but that is a lesson I will save for a talk on selfishness 🙂
Funny how I landed here, but I have to say interesting article. Good read.
Osmany Ramon is the man. He welcomed me with opened arms when I joined the game, and he and the whole SFP have remained among my favorite guys and girls in this game.
OR touches on a point that I think deserves examination: in eRep, Marxism is VERY compatible with Mechanicism. A huge problem with the eRep economic engine is that overzealous capitalists overproduce because there is no adversity related to risk (because it is a video game.) On the other hand, we have won wars on the principle of working for nothing and giving everything to the cause (while the cause supports our basic needs.) It has shone through in the Bear Cavalry and is the model for some of our strongest militias and Q5 infrastructure projects.
As a member of the SFP myself, something I love about the party is the welcoming atmosphere and open-mindedness of so many of our members. I also highly value those who enjoy a healthy and respectful debate.
PQ: Do you think there's any meaningful relationship between leftist game-play and real life? I'm not talking about bringing real life politics into the game. I mean the other way around. Where I'm going with this is...
Phoenix pauses, deep in thought
RS: I hope.
Nice interview. I will share with my comrades!
Great read.
OMG! I can't believe that there are still people, who are that stupid! If it is such a great thinh to be the owner of a company, every exploited worker should start it's own company. Communism sucks!
wierd that this article comes from the most comunist country in erepublik 😐 workers aren´t being exploited by the bussiness owners the bussiness owners and the workers are being exploited by the state wich ludicrous taxs on work and on sells and stupid low import taxes. when the import taxes change and the bussiness owners can finally have a competitive edge on the internal market (and thus the demands for qualified and skilled workers increase) then you can complain about it.
german comunitarism works far better then comunism anyway, if people are active they receive back if they don´t then we let them starve and people get back what they put in.
@ Mahakar : Where would they get the money to start one even if they did want to? Is it not every capitalist workers dream to someday own their own company? Think before you speak please. If your best argument is two horrible and incomplete points, one of which being simply the assertion of an opinion, then you need to just keep quiet to prevent looking so stupid when trying to talk to people with actual educations. You're welcome.
@moonburn : The commune structure in game avoids taxes by paying minimum wage and donating products to employees. I'm an Anarchist so yes I agree taxes suck. Your argument however is assuming that the real life Soviet Union was communist instead of a dictatorship which is what it was (I say this because you think that America is communist for having a powerful federal government when really it is just that, federalist or federal republican). You people who think that just because you've heard about communism you know what it is are funny. Mostly because what you've heard is being spread by idiots too. So its not really your fault you are wrong. Here is the link the definition of Communism on wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism. Go read it. As for Communitarianism (Communitarism) if you read this article carefully you would see that (if you are a believer of this doctrine which I am going to assume that you are since you mentioned it) you would fit in quite well with the Socialist Freedom Party because we believe, much like you do, in common values that bring us closer together as a community. You agree with us that taxes are bad. You are the very least agree that there is exploitation though you seem to not see the exploitation at the base level. If you were in America I would say you should come chat with us because you might find you actually want to join us.
Its funny who those who bash communism insult their own intelligence by refusing to use correct spelling or grammar.
@Mahakar - Oh my, how can one be so naive? If I may ask, how would someone avoid the exploitation of working for another company save trading real money for erepublik gold?
The majority of people get their money from medals and from wages. When you don't want to work for the company, you can neither get a hard worker medal nor any wages. Therefore, someone cannot get 20 gold to buy their own company. Also, some do not know how the company system works in erepublik. Capitalism, a system of constant exploitation of the labors of others, sucks.
@moonburn, I'm unsure if that first statement is sarcasm, but I will treat it as the rest of your paragraph and retort the fact that Russia is the most Communist eCountry at the moment. If a business owner is making a profit in his own company besides his own labor if he does indeed work for that company then he is profiting of the backs of the people who do work. Obviously, the workers then suffer by losing a part of their own labor. Your view of an economic system is entirely flawed.
The state requires those funds to operate a country, and yet you complain. If you do not like the taxes in a country, then you should either run for a congressional space and protest from a point where you can do something, or move to a different country, rather than complaining about something such as that on a topic that has nothing to do with taxes, and is talking of exploitation of workers.
Oh obviously a system in which humans are left to die because they cannot work is a good thing. One who is disabled should be left to starve because they cannot support themselves? Have you no sense of humanity?
Other than the idiotic comments, this article is perfect. Pq, your interviews are great as always, filled with useful information and a humor charm that we've come to love. Keep up the good work my friend.
The inherent problem with this "commune" set up, as explained, is that by bypassing those selfsame taxes, you're cutting money to educational programs, organizations like Meals on Wheels, The Flying Unicorns and yes, us. The eUS military that provides the protection for the eUS' citizens.
I'm short on time to reply to this fully, but I'll make sure I come back to finish my thoughts.
OR: "You hire 10 workers and again for simplicity, say they each make 10 units of raw materials per day and and 1 unit of raw material is equal to 1USD. You would produce in one day 100 USD worth of products. "
You sacrificed accuracy for simplicity. Granted, this was an example, but a grossly misleading example. The truth about a Q1 raw material company is that the GM is likely losing money by paying the expected wages for a worker. If they are in the black, it is by a few pennies per worker per day.
Also - the exploitation is not built-in, and it isn't exploitation. All players are free to organize communes, or start their own for-profit companies. The freedom is built-in, it's up to the players what they do with it.
@Liquid Oxygen - I'm quite sure the same exact thing happens with many for profit companies, so why should the commune system be singled out for this problem?
@Quanah Parker - The meaning of the example had nothing whatsoever to do with the profitability of a raw resource company, you could apply the same concept to a manufacturing company itself.
It is exploitation. If someone is working, and you are profiting from their work, is it not exploitation? Furthermore, people are initially forced to take part in this system. People simply do not have the funds to buy their own companies to get around exploitation, and therefore are forced to work with those forces until they accumulate 20 gold, which could take months.
Go Go Bear Calvary !!!