BAF/BTA Debate
Day 1,372, 06:32
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Published in Belgium 
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by
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by Konrad Neumann
The following article is my views of the BAF and the BTA. It is my idea of what my concerns are and what I want to see in return.
BAF
I need to stress this countless times, it does not matter if you do not want to hear it etc, but there is no function for the BAF. ThomasRed keeps saying in the forum that they want a brighter picture and eBE deserve to grow etc, but we must stress the difference between hopes, dreams etc from plausible realities. eBE's strength is low. If we look at the big picture, we cannot defend any of our neighbors. The only reason why some people (mainly the people who are in it, but if you see, BAF also dominates the congress causing a conflict of interest) are insisting on the continuation of the BAF is for "glory" and for community.
For me, glory is meaningless. It is not a thing I can hold. It is not an effect for an object that benefits the state or more importantly, an object that benefits the people. The BAF is a pretty small and elitist community but maintaining that community within the larger community is still important. While it sounds strange for they are the elites and dominates the congress, we should as the overall community should protect the BAF just as the BAF, and all others should protect the rights and liberties of that of the BCP, etc. The BAF is not just the "national army" but a political machine of sorts that not only play soldier but runs the political discourses of the country. Maybe like RL Egypt now?
Therefore, I think a fair compromise is the following. What I want to see is that the BAF will not get any income tax dollars. The income tax dollars is for the political state only and not for the military in peace time. I would like to see that for those who wants to donate to the BAF, should do so out of BEF, PLN, and gold from medals for all times. No one should be forced to pay a dime for the BAF who are for the most part inactive. However, to maintain their glory, honor, and prestige, they will be part of the national army with their full colors. In times of war (official war and not TW or region swaps etc) in which the home provinces (Flanders, Brussels, and Wallonia) are attacked, the BAF should get the first automatic injection of income tax of X BEF (to be determined by congress) and any additional funding will be voted or deal with by the congress etc.
I think this is fair. For I do not think it is fair that during peace time, the peoples of eBE should fund the BAF who most of them are wealthy enough to fund themselves. In the end, during peacetime, we do not need "defending." The only benefit in peacetime is the BAF members for they get injections of state funds that does not benefit the people but for the already powerful elites. I see this as problematic. My vision above in my opinion is a lot fairer and supports the ideals of justice for all. I do think it is a fair compromise.
BTA
My problem with the BTA, is the structure of this institution. BTA can be said to be an state org but yet it can be said that it is also private. It gets state funds which feeds the newbie of eBE. It is almost run exclusively by Elynea. From a political structure point of view, this is really problematic and to a point of corrupted. I do not know did this exist in real life Belgium, but in the early 1900's in New York and many other cities, there were many political machines that employed the weak and the new immigrants who could not get a job. They got jobs, money, food etc in return for votes. I am sure that Elynea's intention is good as I think she is a nice lady, but I do think that we should change the system.
I think that the BTA should continue to do its good work. What I would like to see is that the food distribution (the 4000 BEF) part of the BEF should be moved to the responsibility of the MoE or MoHA. I really think that there is an image of conflict of interest, of the BTA is the sole distributor of food distribution etc. It makes it looks like Elynea is some kind of a political boss what gives foods to the her flock and she as an army of political voters. eBE should transform the MoE to something like the eGerman Erste Hilfe (First Aid) which deals with newbie advice and articles as well as food, ticket (in times of war) and other material aid to the new and weak. In the end, the BTA is a militia or a MU. This can be a great community builder or boot camp for the BAF etc, but its main function seems to be military in nature. That is why I think the 4000 BEF, and I would like to see more funding, the income tax that was taken away from the BAF from the first part of the article, and apply some of it to the BTA in addition to the 4000 bef that exist now.
Final Remarks
I do find it humorous, with some of the remarks and comments I have received in the past few days. To Olv, I am the same Konrad as before. Nothing changed. The issue of greed is funny, for if you look at my track records and me being in a commune/ militia, it is really laughable to say that I am doing this out of greed. This leads me to a quote from Ward in the forums...
How many times should I tell him again that the goal of the game is the survival of the Belgian flag.
I cannot disagree more. The goal is not the survival of the flag nor the state. The point is the survival of the community. eBE has been isolated for too long and do not see the bigger picture. For what is the purpose of the flag and state if there is no community? This winner takes all attitude which I feel is being employ by some members of the community is dangerous and will destroy the union. Forced taxation, blacklisting and calling them unpatriotic etc to people who sees something different is killing the community.
You can learn something from the eGermans, in my opinion. They understand that the state is meaningless without the community. It is always the eGerman community, and that communities relations to other communities (allies and other friendly states/ militias) that really pulls things through. When the eGermans forgot about that and pushed Bad Company away, they suffered a bit. As the Bad and eGerman state is working out their differences and is in the process of reintegrating them back into the society, remember that it is the community that trumps the state.
Konrad Neumann
-German President x3
-Officer of Orde van de Nederlandse Leeuw (Political dedication and service)
-Knight of Orde van Oranje Nassau (Societal dedication and service)
-15 time congressman
-Advisor to the Raidoh Administration
-Former Minister of Interior of Netherlands
-Former Minister Foreign Affairs of Netherlands
-Former Party President of Green Liberal Democrats [GLD]
-Former Party President of Open Minded Germany [OMG]
-Retired Emeritus of the now defunct Phoenix
-Co-Author of the Frankfurt Treaty
-One of the negotiator, author of the Phoenix alliance under then President Donnie Bronco
-Vice/MoFA of eGermany from August to January
-Former eGerman ambassador to eAustralia, eUK, and UNL
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Comments
I should have stopped to read after "elitists". The BAF is open to every single citizen in eBelgium who is motivated to join us ! There is indeed small requirements, in terms of strenght or activity, but if they don't fullfill them, they are welcome in the BTA.
About the function of the BAF, i guess that this is your opinion because you're not a real life belgian. I'm sorry to say this, but according to you, there is no point at all to play eRepublik as a belgian citizen, as our country is meaningless and that we can't dream of a better future. If you don't want to try to strenghten "our" country, please go, i won't try to hold you, but i would like to see more constructive remarks that will help us to become stronger, instead of making lame propaganda to disband every single etatics institutions in eBE and to send every one in big countries to enjoy their game experience.
You said that the BAF is inactive, but reports of fights are checked every day, and soldiers who don't fight and don't use the supplies we give them properly don't last many days in our army. We are not just fighting to fight. The goal is not today, or after tomorow. You're talking of days of peace, and days of war, to fund us only when we are at war, but today, and tomorow, by fighting with state funding, we are preparing our defence in 6,7 months ! We won't become stronger in one day, but i can assure you that the progress we have already done are not insignificant ! I don't know if you will still be in eBE in 6,7 months, but believe me, the BAF will still be there to defend our country !
And yes, you will maybe laugh when you will read this word, "defend"... We all know that eBE can't defend itself alone, but is this a reason to not try ? to no want to progress ? is this a reason to spread the culture of pessimism all over eBE ? The army is not only the military side, it has also other functions. We are building strong links between us, and it increase the quality of our gaming experience.
Being a belgian soldier, fighting with his brothers, meeting on IRC for raids, helping our brothers from the FAN and Venezuela, preparing ourselves to be a little more decisive in the future battles, ranking hard with the goal to make proud eBE one day !
You can also see that i talked about our friends. The army is also a diplomatic tool that can't be neglicted. The few millions dmg that the BAF can deal are more than welcome by our brothers, and they won't forget us when we will need them, as we seen in the past, when you were not in eBE yet i think. But you know what i mean.
You don't want the people of eBE to fund the BAF, but the Army Funding Law have been voting 2 months ago with a large majority, and the BAF have been a important point of the past campaigns. You are trying to make the BAF a closed elitist group of self-sufficient and old experienced citizens, but you're wrong. The BAF is open to everyone, and believe me, no one is self-sufficient, unfortunately. And the ones who can pay for their supllies sometimes ask to not receive the BAF supplies in order to increase the average supplies we are delivering. Because yes, the solidarity is also something we are trying to develop in the BAF !
At the end, your goal is to destroy our army and to reduce our chances of a better future. The money the BAF receive is not a problem, it have been discussed, its not a fix number, it's a %, so if the monthly taxes income are lower, the BAF get less money, so i don't really get your point. Or maybe...
maybe, are you send by a foreign force ? Are you working in the shadow, infiltrating our society and congress, to destroy our lovely eBelgium by the inside ?
For the BTA, i'm ashamed to read your comments. You have absolutely no ideas on the history of the BTA. The BTA have been privately funded by citizens from different parties in order to create an "educationnal military unit", a training academy for our newbies. It have been proved to be a awesome success, and the word is weak, and the Government/Congress which, in first position, didnt believe in this project, have later accepted to fund it and to take the responsability of this program. The BTA have been placed under the authority of the MoHA, as it's first goal was to help our new players and to raise our retention's rate. But later, it have been decided to place the BTA under the MoD authority, even if it have to be considered as a government tool in general. Why ? To make the BAF more open that it was before, and to make the BTA a first step for our babies before to become BAF soldiers. I'm the one who have asked Elynea to run the BTA, and there is not one day that i regret this decision. Elynea, our old President, the Mother of eBelgium, have not waiting this MU to start helping our newbies ! But again, you weren't in eBE at this time. She have wrote dozen and dozen of tutorials, have sent dozen and dozen mp's, have donated hundred and hundred foods and mt's, etc... If you're afraid of Elynea, if you think that she corrupt the newbies by sending them foods on behalf of the BTA, then you're so wrong ! And you should not ask for changes in the BTA, but you should just vote in congress a law that forbid Elynea to help new citizens, or even to log in in eRep as she is so powerfull with her babies' army. Elynea have bring continuity and stability in the BTA leadership, and it's exactly what we needed.
About the funding, i don't disagree with you, and i will be more than happy to see it budget raised ! But not by reducing of 85% the BAF budget ! Why don't the congressmembers who don't want to donate their gold to the State because they dont want to fund the BAF (or any other reasons, valid or not), don't donate these 5 gold to the BTA ? People helping the peoples, the newbies, our new players ? That would be awesome... But is it realisitc ? I won't make RL examples a you do, but the RL belgians will have understand me on this private joke...
Lame, lame, lame. I'm so dispointed.
ThomasRed
Belgium for Belgians
(no, i won't list my old functions)
omg konrad you are really dangerous. The army is nothing for the country? Maybe you are superman, you can ask to all your friends communists to come defend our country.
BTA has a lead... ah Elynea... you can make one thing... come talk with their members and ask them if i'm a "Guru". I'm bored to see your propaganda. You return the politics as a poison to be avoided !
Now my questions : You thing it's useless to give money for one army, useless to keep our new citizens, you don't beleive on the solidarity. All help has a prize? what are you doing in ebelgium?
You are in politic to make troubles in our country. Before we had discussions, but since you are in eBelgium, there are big troubles.
conclusion : the problem is all ebelgians or just you?
You see profit everywhere. Have you donate something in your elife to a citizen? Or does he pay tax to have one Food Q1 from you ?
You put a bomb in a country.Is it funny for you? And sincery, you can put all your titles in the end of your articles.... You are a politic nothing else in the game ... Do you know the humility, do you know the liberty? you are destroying the chance for Monsieur Guillotine to be elected. Sad for him.
Do you really want to see my answer... I'm bored to see your accusation.
To say thanks to you, i will not support Monsieur Guillotine.
I hope you are happy, now, you can say i'm bad. You have to think before provoking.
Bye Konrad, nothing to add to my answer. Why don't return in eGermany man... your place is not here.
+1 on TR !
+1 on Ely !
(I didn't want to write it again so I solve it by doing this 😛 )
-Critically
President of eBelgium
Typical response, since you control the orgs and you are a member. BAF is doing so well that even Critcally told me how disappointed that he is about the BAF and its low activity levels etc.
It is also lame that you make this a RL race issue. It makes no sense and all you are is not offering a logical response. You are trying to evoke an emotional response independent of rights, justice, facts etc. All you see is that this is against your toy army and you must silence me or others who shares this view.
You talk of your little congress law but this only shows that there is something rotten in eBE politics. Most of congress are BAF. The BAF congress voted for a law that funds the BAF even more etc. The BAF demands all to pay tax and gold to the state which 85 percent goes to the BAF. They use emotional language and image of the flag to hide the conflict of interest and oligarchical ways.
bla bla bla...
didnt read a word but anyway v+s @_@
@konrad : i put the link of your newspaper in the shout of BTA, i hope a comment from them here about your accusations.
It's pathetic..
Make my day... This only shows that when something pisses you off, you are using your minions as a political tool to silence dissent. Have your minions do your dirty work. In the end, it only proves my point...
Most congress are in BAF: Guess what? Some people are proud to be eBelgians 😁.
You can't decently think that there is a military lobby trying to control the country...
Konrad : BFB was my first party, i gave golds to this party.
I just take the pp to be sure to give it after to the right person.
Are you crazy or are you paranoid ?
@ Jofroi, How is that a logical argument. Makes no sense.
@Elynea, I do not think you read this article right. If you read it correctly, you should be happy for it is FOR your BTA. The changes I suggested should make the BTA stronger and without doubt apolitical.
And in the end, your words and action only shows that you are bit confused and is taking this way to personally. (Again). Maybe something is missing in the translation.
It also seems you are obsess with this idea of your rivals wanting to keep gold for themselves. You call them trouble makers and stuff. Yesterday you want me eDead, now you want me to leave eBE. So in then end, you just want to get rid of people who do not agree with you.
Politics in the proud eBE...
Can you all calm down a bit ?
Talking about the BTA, it is a perfect exemple of the difference that can exists between theory and practice.
I think that Konrad's ideas can be understood. The problem is that he takes a theorical point of vue, without realizing that his theorical fears (the structure of the BTA, that could lead to a conflict of interests) do not apply in practice in our case.
The way it is run could lead to some problem as he descibes, in theory, and with bad people at the head of it.
But he has to realize that it is NOT our case for instance. Elynea is doing a good job, and is not using it for any purpose. She just want to help new players, without taking any profit for herself.
So coming talking about that as Konrad does can be a little bit insulting when you give so much time and effort as Elynea does.
=> Konrad, I understand your point of vue. But what your fear about the way the BTA is managed does not apply in Elynea's case.
=> Elynea, do not take his text too personal.
and why would we vote for elynea, even if she is our "leader"?
ok, she gives us food every day, but only when we fight!
I'm already longtime in the bta, and elynea never asked me to vote for her. If you don't believe me, ask all bta-members if you want, and show us the results in a week
"In the end, it only proves my point... "
and what is your point?
that the bta is just a puppet of elynea and that the members are her slaves or something. one wor😛 ridiculous
why don't join us for a month? then you can check it out instead of accusing elynea about something
- you have no business with
- you probably didn't inform yourself about it
you're just throwing a bomb on belgian politics.
we don't need you for that, we have our own "bomber" in eBelgium.
i can only encourage that you question things that are already settled in eBelgium, but please do me a favor, and inform yourself before you throw your bomb.
tecuvo
I wonder did anyone read it. I did not say Elynea is corrupted etc, but that the structural system creates the image of that. Then suggest changes to get rid of the illusion.
so you agree that it's an illusion, fine!
i suppose you already have a suggestion to get rid of the illusion?
otherwise this article would be very useless.
in your final remark you said the community is the most important thing. believe me, the bta is probably the best thing to involve new players in the eBe community
Like I said, either have the BTA but the food distribution or the stuff that is not generated within the BTA to that of the MoE. So that it does not look like the state is funding this illusion but that she can say is a charity. In the end, it also makes the MoE or MoHA does it job and not the BTA is the MoE and MoHA.
As i said before konrad BTA is a part of education, BTA is the same like a system of mentor but not for one person, for a group.
We have a little community, we have our chanel... a good team.
Sometimes there are players who don't talk, other make funny comment. We talk about missions, how to make it, if we can make them together....
I can say you an example : several players are now independent, and they continue their way alone. No problem.
BTA is before all the first contact on the game. Several players are in congress, i'm proud of their progress, and they are in different parties too. Some are for the merge, others not. I respect that.
BTA is not BAF : the purpose is so different.
I am the Party President of BCP, and here is my opinion on this issue.
My Opinion: The Belgian Army
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/my-opinion-the-belgian-army-1848469/1/20
Monsieur Guillontine
@Thomas Red I'm very disapointed in you and not for what you are standing but how you talks about not Ebe. I'm Dutch should I also go then??? And you are on this moment not even a eBe how should we see that in this discussion. I always thought of you as a great leader but this is going me to far!
Understand what you are saying but just say facts like you did about the BTA, so I know you.
@Elyne keep on the good work I loved you tutorials and know what good work you do. I'm one of the funders of the BTA and proud of it. I understand what Konrad is saying that it could be dangerous that there is so much power by one persone with newbies but is there anyone I trust it is you.
I don't understand that one person is saying something you don't support the other because you know MG and what he is standing for. Will you say that in the BfB there is nobody who sometimes disagree with you or with BfB programm, you don't quit the BfB then but come with arguments like you did here.
@to everybody I also can throw with mud but if we want to be community lets keep it decent.
A newbie (Cotarius)
two main comments:
*it is bullshit that the BAF is a political machine that influences politics
*BAF is not elitist
further, almoust nobody is wealthy enough to fund themselves in eBelgium and there are a few other rather 'stupid' comments. Elynea is not under control of a legion of sheep voters, au contraire, she spend a lot of her time and resources into helping our newbies.
I think you underestimate the capability of eBelgians, they can think for themselves and do not follow the opinions of their MU-leaders...
The BAF is just a club, there are no activity levels needed nor are supplies given. My militia is different, sure I have one member but he is at least active -.-