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An open letter to Asgard HQ

Day 2,074, 08:33 by TheJuliusCaesar

We can read another Netherlands-to-Asgard hype article from Alfons newspaper. What makes this one special, is that it is written by president of Sweden, by Asgard HQ member. He shamelessly and openly gathers pressure from outside to swedish congress by purpose. Someone would say this is attack against congress' freedom to decide what is best for the country, as would I. This just isn't acceptable. Furthermore Alfons paints a nice fluffy picture where only few swedes are against the Netherlands trial, while really the situation is far from it.
This ain't even all of it. In the comment section president of Norway, a HQ member, openly states and hopes that Sweden CP will decide in favor of the trialship once there is no swedish congress, which is reality in few days. While we know what is the situation in Sweden, the CP decision in favor of trial would have no legitimacy, no support from people. In that point the HQ can overrun the decision of CP according Asgard Treaty. However while HQ consists of these kind of leaders, can we even have hope that HQ would overrun such an authoritarian decision? I hope yes, but I doubt it would happen.

Asgard bases on democracy. We didn't even have Supreme Commander until it was made mandatory with change in game mechanics. Our treaty requires our congresses to vote whether Asgard takes new members or not, whether kicks out one or not. It would be completely absurd and unbearable to witness an authoritharian, self-made decision regarding trial member, a decision that wouldn't be what the country really wants. Such decision should never be made in any circumstances, ever.
In Asgard we are all equal. No nation has more power in the HQ than others, no nation can alone tell other nations what to do and not to do. In this picture of democracy and equality, there is no room for dictatorship, no room for self-made decisions which are not in line with the opinions of the people. As we are all equal and we have a democracy, no one should put pressure on anyone from anywhere. Everyone should be able to form their own opinion and decide what is theirs to decided without pressure from outside.

I have written about the decision making and legitimacy of it. I have written about the legacy, about the principles of Asgard. I have nothing against Dutch people nor The Netherlands as a country. I trust no president breaks the treaty. I trust no president tears Asgard members and citizens into toxic-atmosphered separated groups of people.

I trust the presidents of Asgard will act democratically.

-Caesar

 

Comments

TheJuliusCaesar
TheJuliusCaesar Day 2,074, 08:33

And this time NO ONE buys votes!

KeijoPertti
KeijoPertti Day 2,074, 08:55

You mean not more than 100? (wasn't me)

TheJuliusCaesar
TheJuliusCaesar Day 2,074, 08:58

"Funny"

Tse Kim
Tse Kim Day 2,074, 08:59

Here comes the votes!

ragalanow jadon
ragalanow jadon Day 2,075, 19:11

as a Canadian i have nithing against Netherlands, whats your problem The Julius whatever

Juhannus Petrus
Juhannus Petrus Day 2,074, 08:37

#Respect brother!

As I said: Democracy is incompatible with personal interests

Zacharia Raven
Zacharia Raven Day 2,074, 08:45

Should NL be accepted by presidents waiting for wipe, and then doing a decision opposed my congress, it would ridicule the Asgard leadership.

Presidents should realize, that NL is too far away, and does not bring any value in Asgard. Asgard can't afford being any more divided. What is even more appalling in this is that the presidents have the audacity to encourage each others to act behind their countries congresses, like dictators. This is not and has never been the Asgard-spirit. I truly am disgusted by the road HQ is taking. You are a disgrace to all of Asgard.

TheJuliusCaesar
TheJuliusCaesar Day 2,074, 08:54

Ffs please. Why do you buy votes? I don't want them

Rolo Tahmasee
Rolo Tahmasee Day 2,074, 09:13

Maybe this would matter if ASGARD didn't suck so much...

Fettis
Fettis Day 2,074, 09:21

Good to hear your opinion! That is one problem currently, we have no clue what other alliance members are thinking. Information is not moving.

That must be changed, soon.

Jussi SD Jernkuuk
Jussi SD Jernkuuk Day 2,074, 09:14

Voted. o/

Kendo Yanar
Kendo Yanar Day 2,074, 09:31

Summary please! or at least some boobs

Matrim Cauthon
Matrim Cauthon Day 2,074, 09:45

Julius wants democracy. And I want cougar boobs.

Kain Propan
Kain Propan Day 2,075, 05:43

I want cougar boobs too.

TheJuliusCaesar
TheJuliusCaesar Day 2,074, 09:45

Unfortunately letters have no summaries nor boobs

But I can give you a short TL;DR here:
Member presidents should act democratically and not override the peoples will.

Kendo Yanar
Kendo Yanar Day 2,074, 11:45

Nah, Attak ftw! \o/

Kain Propan
Kain Propan Day 2,074, 10:06

Well written Julius.

This reminds me of the first time NL applied to Asgard. Finnish congress held a vote about it where a NL entry was voted down by a slight margin. Finnish CP WP Attack then goes in and adds a vote of his own after the vote had closed so that the end result would change from a No to a Yes. Sadly for him it didn't. That however didn't stop him from going in and mix with the voting result yet one more time. Only that this time he didn't add a vote, he removed one. And that is the story of how the Finnish congress voted "Yes" to NL in Asgard.

Luckily Sweden voted it down in the end.

The way HQ has acted this month is not only wrong, it is disrespectful to all the citizens of Asgard and we should never tolerate such behaviour.

JeguljaM
JeguljaM Day 2,074, 10:10

You are talking like HQ members are machines without opinions.

Kain Propan
Kain Propan Day 2,074, 10:28

All I am asking for is some professionalism. When I was in HQ I never tried to pressure the citizens of an ally to vote this or that. As Supreme Commander/HQ member I never went out public and said that I was negative to letting NL in to Asgard even though it certainly would have been beneficial to my own opinion. I remained neutral in public(except for the Swedish forum ofc since I was a member of congress and government). With influence comes responsibility. It is not my business as HQ member to pressure other nations citizens.

Besides, I am fairly sure that most people with half of a brain understands the tactic employed by Asgard HQ here. Wait until the member states have no congress so the CPs have all the power. Even though it has support of the treaty(a flaw of the treaty) one of the founding ideas behind Asgard was to give all power to the congresses to avoid these sort of scenarios.

JeguljaM
JeguljaM Day 2,074, 10:40

Yes SCs should be pretty neutral.


Im president, I have forreign affairs business.
Hmm really no tactics behind it, I mean we didnt wait on purpose. Last meeting was yesterday. Maybe you want to reschedule it 2 weeks ago with a time machine sir.

JNJK92
JNJK92 Day 2,074, 14:05

"Finnish congress held a vote about it where a NL entry was voted down by a slight margin."

The vote was 13 for 6 against and one empty.

In that case the 9axel5 wanted to count the empty vote as a vote against NL joining Asgard, but according to congresses' own laws an empty vote isn't counted at all.

If that empty vote had been negative not even WP Attak's vote could have turned the vote positive. Also WP Attak's vote wasn't decisive in this case either.

Kain Propan
Kain Propan Day 2,074, 15:15

Could you please show me this "Congresses law" that says that blank votes is to be discarded as votes. None of the people I've talked to have heard of such a law.

You are right that WPs vote didn't matter to the outcome, which I am clearly stating in my previous comment. Yet he went in and manipulated the vote and added his own after the vote had ended. Why? Well he thought it would make a difference. The point isn't if his vote mattered or not, it is that he went in and manipulated a congressional vote so it would give him the result he wanted. It amazes me how some people seem to be ok with that.

JNJK92
JNJK92 Day 2,074, 16:36

"Keskustelujakson päätyttyä asiaa hoitava kansanedustaja luo uuden ketjun, jonka aloitusviestissä on esitetty keskustelussa hiottu lopullinen esitys, jonka muuta edustajat yksinkertaisesti hyväksyvät tai hylkäävät. Äänestys on pystyssä 24 tuntia, ja tämän ajan päätyttyä tarkastellaan esityksen hyväksyneiden ja hylänneiden edustajien suhdetta."

http://erepublik.fi/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=6511

Seems like it wasn't a law but rather a "practice" of law making, but it clearly states that only the "no" and "yes" votes are counted and their relation to each other is calculated.

JNJK92
JNJK92 Day 2,074, 16:49

"You are right that WPs vote didn't matter to the outcome, which I am clearly stating in my previous comment. Yet he went in and manipulated the vote and added his own after the vote had ended. Why? Well he thought it would make a difference. The point isn't if his vote mattered or not, it is that he went in and manipulated a congressional vote so it would give him the result he wanted. It amazes me how some people seem to be ok with that."

Also in eFinland, according to forum guidelines, the president can pretty much close and open again voting processes to his liking.

TheJuliusCaesar
TheJuliusCaesar Day 2,075, 01:45

"also in eFinland, according to forum guidelines, the president can pretty much close and open again voting processes to his liking."

No. In Finland, president can prolong or reduce the time of vote _only if he explains it beforehand and the reason is valid_. No excuses for what attak did. Disgrace.

Kain Propan
Kain Propan Day 2,074, 15:18

Would you F me?
I'd F me.
I'd F me hard.
I'd F me so hard.

JeguljaM
JeguljaM Day 2,074, 10:08

You probably got it wrong.

On purpose? It was not planned if you think so. I didnt ask anyone to comment nor did The HQ.
I wrote my article as president of Sweden,(the MoFA might as well could have written it) stating that Netherlands is our friends. This article was meant for Sweden and Netherlands only. Not to The Congress since we wouldnt keep it. You think this was meant to put pressure on congress? HAHAHA congress disappears within 24 hours smarto. I didnt make any pressure by this article, The supporters did. I have all right in The world to mind My own business, My forreign affairs without random people like you questioning and criticizing it.

Yes 2-4 people is basically working against it.

"§7 In any situation requiring a member's congress to vote, only when there is no official congress due to a wipe, the CP shall have sole voting power in their place."


Don't talk democracy with me. Also this treaty has been voted in congress and accepted in all country congresses. That is democracy if anything. There will probably occur a national vote first before we accept anything.


AND PRESSURE OR NOT YOU CAN NOT REMOVE ASGARD COUNTRY MEMBERS CITIZENS _FREEDOM OF SPEECH_

Fettis
Fettis Day 2,074, 10:33

So you didn't learn anything from this article, good job...

JeguljaM
JeguljaM Day 2,074, 10:35

Not really. It's mostly lies and bad propaganda

erech
erech Day 2,074, 11:38

That's from the old treaty. Here's the new one: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lbVlttogcjOY3cZl2LLOwCjDleVzfgF8t6Ih2kL1rP4/edit?pli=1

Let me quote something for you-

§9 If the application for membership is approved by all Asgard members, a 3-month trial period will begin. Any Asgard member nation may propose that the trial member be kicked from the alliance. In order for the proposal to succeed it must obtain a majority vote with 50% or more approval in the members' congress.

Sounds legit, right? You can do whatever you want, right? WRONG

§11 A country can end their membership by a majority vote of 67% or more by their congress. If no congress exists, it is up to the CP of said nation to decide. __If HQ has reason to believe the CP is acting in malice, and not in the interest of its people, it can disregard its decision, and demand a congressional vote.__ Same procedure can be applied to §9.

Can you really say you represent the will of Swedish people, when you overrun the will of the former congress? If the other members of HQ have some amount of dignity in them, I suggest we use our veto-right and stop this fiasco. If Alfons' vote is accepted, we can just throw the whole treaty away. No point in following any rules, if the members and HQ can't follow even one.

JeguljaM
JeguljaM Day 2,074, 11:48

Nice try.

On The §9, we have no congress. Therefore no #9 needed.


I dont understand what you are talking about really. You are not so updated.


If Swedens vote is accepted then its The peoples choice. We Are Having a national referendum/vote and if its majority in favor then NL have support and I Can accept.

Akashaton
Akashaton Day 2,074, 12:45

§11 goes with §9, not §8!
§8 Once the application has been approved by HQ, it will be presented to all member congresses, where it needs a majority vote of 67% or greater in favour of the applicant country to pass.
and
§12 In a case where there is no congress, a CP’s decision is sufficient for steps §8, §9 and §10.

TheJuliusCaesar
TheJuliusCaesar Day 2,074, 13:05

Once you gain any official position anywhere, you get power. With the power however, there _always comes responsibility. While you are a HQ-member, you can never in no occasion express an opinion without it being connected to your position in HQ.
Congress dissappearing do not give you legitimacy and right to act against will of the people, I hope you udnerstand that.

I am "a random people". I am a random people who is part of Asgard, a citizen of Asgard. The people of Asgard _should_ be represented by Asgard, should be represented by Asgard HQ. I have full right to criticise your foreign policy, as I have right to criticise anyones foreign policy. Especially if you are tearing the Asgard Treaty into pieces and doing self-made, authoritharian decision which highly affect the whole future of Asgard, yes I have right to criticise your foreign policy and I certainly will do it.

HQ could overrun your decision if they feel it is against the will of swedes, as it is. I just highly doubt our current HQ, apart from erech, has guts to do it.

Oh I talk about democracy with you, my pleasure. In democracy you simply don't do authoritharian decisions, capish?

Cendorr
Cendorr Day 2,074, 14:01

"I am "a random people". "

Yes. So shut up, please. I cant see your problem. Is it that because Sweden has no congress and president will decide? Well there is no problem, he is elected by the people. Just like congress is. I'd say president represents even more will of people. And as you said HQ can overrun him so you dont need to worry. If NL become trial member, it is the will of Asgard.

Cendorr
Cendorr Day 2,074, 14:02

and read the treaty please!!! you cant ignore that.

Akashaton
Akashaton Day 2,075, 03:20

If Asgard HQ were trying to brake the treaty and question a CP motives and rights, like you suggest, I've be worried!

WP Attak
WP Attak Day 2,074, 10:45

Minority (33%) is holiding rest of the Asgard as ransom. Some "old elite folks" oppose democracy, change the treaty to avoid new members, and then keep on voting no to prevent Netherlands joining even if majority of all nations want them to join.

This is not democracy, this is a joke.

Kain Propan
Kain Propan Day 2,074, 10:59

Funny seeing as you were one of the people who wrote the current treaty. Also funny to see you speak of democracy "Mr dictator", it doesn't suit you very much. If it makes you happy you you can always start a vote to kick out Sweden and then you can invite NL if it means that much to you.

The reason that a 100% unity is needed for a new member(and that has always been the case ever since Asgard was founded) is so that there wont be any fragmentation among the member states.

Say hello to Estonia and Lithuania for me will you?

Akashaton
Akashaton Day 2,074, 12:55

What WP Attak is making a good point of here is the root of fragmentation . And Kain Propan, you drafted this treaty, you speak against now, you self.
The case of this fragmentation is that you did not listen to my advice, to avoid the undemocratic majority 67% crap, a majority is 51%!

Zacharia Raven
Zacharia Raven Day 2,074, 11:26

what. the. hell.

Oppose democracy? Is your concept of democracy making decisions that congresses reject during wipe? And you have nerves to yet again talk about elites? Players who have quit and died 2 years ago? You and your party are and have been the "elites" for what, 5 months? This bullshit of yours goes well for your people and the 2 clickers, but not to real actives.

As Kain pointed out, you were there to remake the treaty. And now it's Elites fault? You are so hypocrite you make me sick. Dictator who presents himself as the voice of democracy. Man who announced that the national forums are not to be used for governing.

Or maybe you just are dillusional.

WP Attak
WP Attak Day 2,074, 11:56

I am very sorry I was involved, and did not see the result of this change. The new treaty created a deadlock where new members cannot be changed, and the treaty cannot be changed without approval of this "minority". Scary!

Akashaton
Akashaton Day 2,074, 12:59

I tried to speak against this madness in Asgard HQ, when Kain Propan and Zacharia Raven ran the show, but they all but ignored me and reason!

erech
erech Day 2,074, 12:01

An alliance is supposed to be united. If a third (or more) of a certain country opposes a new member, what are the chances the alliance is still standing after a few months?

There's a reason why it's 67%. IMHO, it should be 75%, or even 80%. I've seen enough internal disputes in EDEN. Why should Asgard follow the same road?

JeguljaM
JeguljaM Day 2,074, 12:48

According you yes. Should we have democracy or not?

erech
erech Day 2,074, 12:55

In a democracy, all laws and rules are supposed to be followed, not just those which happen to be nice for yourself at the moment. In a democracy, a president can't just say "ohai, I'm a dictator nao, who needs congress".

JeguljaM
JeguljaM Day 2,074, 13:09

§12 In a case where there is no congress, a CP’s decision is sufficient for steps §8, §9 and §10.


Here is a law. I cant use it? I shall not follow it? Of thought we had democracy .. Yeah I Can only use laws that benefits your opinion

TheJuliusCaesar
TheJuliusCaesar Day 2,074, 13:08

erech said what is there to be said about this matter. As erech did, I'd also like to remind you that you were in that team who rewrote the treaty. Joining with current treaty is possible, as it should be. No nation can be too easy to be accepted, I agree with erech that the limit could be 75% or 80% too. It would really unify the alliance in long term.

Cendorr
Cendorr Day 2,074, 12:40

Lies. Congress of eFinland is ready to accept NL. Believe me TJC, Im a congress member you're not. We just had a gallup about it and result was YES. YES! President WP Attak also supports so eFinland really wants to see NL as a member. Government and congress wants NL in Asgard, cant you understand? And its not our business what president of Sweden decides to do. Alfons can make that decision alone, read Asgard treaty. And if HQ has nothing to complain, everything is ok.

btw WHY THE HELL do you buy votes?!

JeguljaM
JeguljaM Day 2,074, 12:44

He wants to make us famous

 
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