A sad conclusion
Danie Fox
When deciding our future a few months ago, we thought the world worked as shown below, and we placed ourselves accordingly:
We thought, and were not told otherwise, that we could be in Terra and be friends with some of ONE, whilst still opposing EDEN. We believed the world now, for the first time, had a tripolar alliance system. We thought we could be friends with Serbia and Russia, Macedonia and France, and, of course, enemies with Ireland.
It turns out we were both mislead and naieve. The world actually works like this:
It has become increasingly clear, seemingly to us after everyone else, that the world is, and will always be, bipolar. The eternal two sided conflicts necessitate this: Romania and Hungary; Serbia and Croatia; Germany/Russia and Poland; France/Brazil and Spain are so tightly foght as to require each side to push for every MPP available, which must eventually always result in bipolarity. The last month has shown that if we add the UK and Ireland to this list of eternal enemies, we will have to accept what that entails. That's why Terra would never have supported us attacking Ireland, and more importantly that we are now at risk of being stranded in no-man's-land between Terra/EDEN and ONE, fair game to both and defended properly by neither.
This brings us to the most pressing question facing the UK today: can we survive independently in the space between ONE and Terra/EDEN? Whoever we elect on the 5th of May has a tough choice: do we try to maintain a foreign affairs juggling act, hoping to keep friendships intact with half of Terra and half of ONE; or do we accept we are going to have to join ONE wholesale and leave some of our best allies for some of our worst enemies. Ironically this is the decision we congratulated ourselves on managing to avoid a couple of months ago, attempting to settle in the purple comfort zone in the first diagram, ditching neither our traditional Phoenix allies nor long-standing EDEN enemies.
Personally I think eHistory tells us that, like the last time any country became neutral (I'd call it independent personally), it doesn't work and is only a precursor to something else - we joined PEACE after being "neutral" post-Atlantis. The US and Ireland aren't going to let us back into EDEN/Terra, especially seeing how they nearly passed an NE against us and we then MPPed Serbia. Being neutral will leave us vulnerable, either side will be able to attack us if it suits them, and their allies won't break up their alliance to defend us. The only significant country who I remembered turning neutral was India, who then proceeded to be conquered by Pakistan, Indonesia and China after a short delay, and they are still occupied to this day. There have been many other neutral countries, virtually all of whom have since been ignored, inactive, and used as pawns whenever it suits their stronger neighbours.
The only sensible option now, for those who haven't realised yet, is going to be (trying!) to join ONE. It will be slow, it will be painful, and we will lose a lot of good players and friends, but we've now got basically no choice. Every other member of Phoenix has had to lose half of their friends, we've just been a bit slower at seeing it than the rest. It was nice keeping all of our friends whist it lasted, but soon what started with Hungary and Poland's unlikely friendship is inevitably going to finish with an entirely new world order. We are going to have to pick a side, and only one (both senses of the word) is now available.
I'm not saying I want this, just that there is probably no other option in which we aren't screwed in the long run. I should have realised this before today, like many of our allies and people such as Thatcher seem to have. However, if EDEN had placed less importance on Ireland than Terra did on the UK, they'd be the ones having to swap sides - probably hence their pre-emptive MPP with Poland. I still don't think we've done anything particularly wrong or "traitorous", just been forced onto a new path by being a bit short-sighted ourselves and mislead and undervalued by Terra.
daniecox ;_;
Comments
If you join ONE, what kind of explanation are you going to give to your eFrench allies? What about the eGermans?
Let's be honest here, unfortunately only the eSerbs, eFrench and eGermans (along with random ecitizens like me) give the UK some kind of credibility right now. You have already switched sides once(you had your reasons), but that destroyed your reputation... You recovered it slowly when you fought for Phoenix, but joining ONE would ruin it again... It's true 😕
Is that really worth it? Will you fight alongside ePoland against eFrance? Are you going to have fun serving as a puppet for a ePolish invasion against the United States?
Think about it...
This was an interesting read. I hope whatever path the eUK follows will lead to a better future.
So Ribeiro lets conclude: being in ONE means being a puppet of ePoland, but being in EDEN/Terra doesn't mean being a puppet of eUSA?
Come on...
@Plainswalker
I don't see eFrance and eBrasil as a puppet of the eUSA. Do you?
The thing is, by turning to ONE, you would effectively be betraying your friends. And yes, "betraying" is the correct word for this.
eFrance will be targeted by ONE soon... honestly, how can you help them if you join their enemies?
I mean, I love the eUK. But please, don't try to swap old friends for a couple of countries who just see you as a bridge to invade the eUSA.
I'm sorry, but eFrance is a puppet and comparing with eBrazil makes no sense, that's a superpower.
The article is very well balanced, so please stop the emotional propaganda.
We could always join ONE and tell them we refuse to attack any close friends but will not intervene if they so choose to. Meaning UK won't directly attack France or Germany but if any other ONE country decides to attack them say Spain or Poland then the UK military won't directly help or hinder those battles.
I am sorry to see that you consider eFrance is a puppet. But then, I agree with you when you say that this article is very well balanced.
However, what I am writing is merely my opinion. Its far from being "emotional propaganda" as you call it.
@Challenger2uk
Then you would be turning your back to eFrance in an invasion. And if ONE hasn't accepted countries such as eIndo yet, why would they accept a country that is "half commited" to their cause? 😒
Anyways, whatever the future holds for the eUK, it's your call, obviously. Good luck for whichever choices you decide to take! Hopefully, we won't end up on opposite sides of a war
We don't want to join ONE, but we won't accept not being allowed attack Ireland when they provoke us. As the US set us as their NE when we attacked our enemy, yet Terra did not see that as a bad thing, I cannot see a future for us in Terra. It is an alliance that condones attacks on its own members by its own members, but not attacks on its member's enemies.
Why don't we just create our own ealliance and try to get our "best" allies to join.
Makes me sad 🙁
"Meaning UK won't directly attack France or Germany but if any other ONE country decides to attack them say Spain or Poland then the UK military won't directly help or hinder those battles. "
What happend to the Strassbourg treaty? 🙁
^Nothing, he is not our leader. We would like to ask what happened to Terra though, seeing as nothing was done about the US proposing us as Natural Enemy.
We're not joining ONE!
To do so would only put the UK in a similar position to that it 'enjoyed' in Terra and it would not be reconcilable with the fact that 2 of the 3 nations we'd throw ourselves under a bus for are in opposition to ONE.
Public opinion won't let s be part of Terra and it won't let us be opposed to ONE.
Therefore our future is in helping defend the territorial integrity of our friends (as we did in Canary Islands, Parana, NoB, Rhineland, Saxony, Brittany, Pays De loire, Poitou) and fighting EDEN whenever we get the chance.
Can you give an example of a country successfully being unaligned over a long period of time? I mean truly unaligned, not just technically unaligned like Indo & Slovenia, which are effectively in ONE.
eBelgium. (:v)
Betraying long standing friends eGermany, eFrance et al (and there is a distinction between friends and allies we've MPP'd) is NOT an option, nor is sitting it out when they are invaded.
I dont know how we should move forward but the above is priority 1, 2 and 3.
Id rather loose with some dignity than betray friends and win as a peripheral of ONE.
1) We're not joining ONE. Hell no.
2) We have too many MPP's, even some in conflict with each other.. France/MKD as an example.
3) We are on bad terms with Poland and Spain, and so be it.
4) FREE VALHALLA
Indo and Brazil anyone? They were very close friends. They are now effectively EDEN and ONE.
Hungary and Spoland? They were on opposite sides for years, and fought over Rhone Alps etc lots. They are now working together well, as ONE.
Things change, we don't get to fully decide who we are friends with. I don't like it, but to think we can do what no other country can is silly.
@ThomasRe😛 Didn't Poland and France try to force their way through you to get where they wanted? Don't you have such low activity levels that most months it takes one vote to get into congress?
eBE attacked eUK, eBE is neutral and helps our enemies. We helped eBE before.... ThomasRED was battle hero against us. 🙁
Let us not follow eBE neutrality. Let us be loyal to our friends (eBrazil, eFrance, eGermany and eSerbia to name some).
We shouldn't join ONE, not only are we enemies with quite a few but many allies are in Terra. Neutral doesn't mean we're vulnerable, it means we can be a bit more independent, choose our own allies. We have strong allies unlike all the other neutral countries. We want to keep our friends near, and being on either ONE or Terra's side will only make us push friends away.
To be fair, I'd much rather like to be in an alliance like ABC. Not ABC itself, we should create an alliance like ABC consisting of France, Germany and us.
ABC is just an alliance to unite 3 countries into 1 force while remaining relatively neutral and have friends from both EDEN and Terra.
We should do this. Make a strong bond between us and France + Germany while remaining neutral and still having our own friends that we want and be independent.
Having a strong relationship with 3 countries is not going to help very much in a ONE invasion. If you have an alliance with just France and Germany, then you would have to support them in the war against ONE. Then ONE would not sign mpps with you.
I liked having the United Kingdom in Terra but you are the one who NE'd Ireland first while we are in a World war, and most of your allies in Europe/N, S. America are facing invasion. It makes you look very selfish, and your priorities in the wrong place.
The U.K is in perfect condition right now, and shouldn't have to worry about invasion for a very long time. With all the major alliances at war with each other, why would either of them want to have another front or enemy by attacking the United Kingdom.
If Terra Attacked the U.K then it would face opposition from Brazil, Argentina, Germany, and France.
If ONE(Poland) wanted to attack you, then im sure Serbia would try its best to not let it happen.
I guess Ireland and Belgium could gang up on you, that would interesting.
An alliance between 3 countries will work as I pointed out, you could have external allies.
ABC has strong relationships with both EDEN and ONE countries.
so a france, germany and uk alliance would work as we could still have strong relationships with serbia, turkey and japan without anyone opposing. So it'll be a neutral alliance where we could still build up on stronger relations.
@Gambit: All members of ABC have MPPs with Poland, Hungary and Serbia, and are fighting EDEN or ONE. I've really thought about this, and cannot find any country, past or present, that has thrived or achieved anything as de facto independent.
I repeat that I really don't like the prospect of joining ONE, but until someone gives me a relevant country that has stayed independent of the bipolar alliance system, I am convinced we will have to look awful again and join ONE. I really like France and Germany, and I really want to remain allies with them, but I don't think our gov can make it up with the US and Ireland, and can stomach joining EDEN against Serbia, Macedonia etc. I don't think EDEN would let us join anyway.
Jesus, someone knows nothing about French opinion.
France isn't an American puppet, if they were, they'd be out for your blood as much as we Irish are 😛
WTF is wrong with the UK forming a W European alliance with France, Germany and maybe Italy? How come no-one is even mentioning this option?
Everything ultimately results in bipolarity.
It's always been like that and always will be, there are just some thick dumb***** that never seem to get it.
The best way to think of the current situation is like World War 2. Nazi Germany was such a great evil that the most unlikely allies formed to stop it. This is in some sense the EDEN/TERRA alliance.
TERRA is an actual third alliance. They just are not run by idiots, unlike the eUK.
BTW, joining ONE means joining Spain and Poland.
daniecox, just admit it: you want to join ONE because you like doing what's easy rather than doing what's right. It is easier for you to eat Shungary's or Sploland's crumbs than to actually make your own bread.
France, Germany, UK have been very close ever since Western Europe Battle Group of PHX. This has been officially shown through the Strasbourg Treaty. http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-ukgov-treaties-summits-more-1705742/1/20
All three countries also have strong ties with Portugal and the Netherlands (mostly recently the RWs of NL).
Revolt, I can;t remember the last article like this that you didn't cry over. It's almost like you're biased.
I personally would choose to reluctantly join ONE. breaking friendships is tough, but making new ones is equally fun.
Yes, puppet to Poland or puppet to US/Romania. Turks entered Terra, yet they are back with eSerbia (http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/serbia-has-been-proposed-as-forever-friend--1762321/1/20)
I wish Phoenix is still in function, but the game was getting boring and something had to change. If it was up to me, I wouldn't have gone this way, but we did and I have to stand by our decision. I still think of our old allies as friends, even if we are sometimes foreced to do battles against them.
Whatever you decide should be YOUR decision, and not be pushed into it by one of the two parties.
I have better idea....
Just kick USA from the TERRA and everything will be ok : P
And just stay neutral..... : )
its funy day but agree with @ Maegalodonus
UK has issues from my side i was ready to swallow mpp with serbs but attack on Ireland was stupid
Sorry for double post.
India had neutrality and that is true but position of India wasn't like UK's position now. UK now has good friends in both TERRA and ONE and on plus side isn't surrounded by any of the EDEN members (you only want Ireland to be there). So you won't be attacked by either TERRA or ONE if you stay neutral because if lets say Poland attacks you it will lose Serbian and Turkish MPP witch they would need or if you get attacked by USA they will lose Brazilian, France and German MPP.... I personally think that UK will be in great position if you chose neutrality.
Yea, but croats have their NE. Serbs.
Romania has theirs. Hungary.
Bulgarians theirs. Madedonia.
Greece theirs. Turkey
Yet UK can't have theirs? That's not fair if you ask me. Every country need that one country that will make them stay in game. When Macedonia was included in the game, Bulgarians couldn't get past that, and left. And I compleatly understand them.
Well, I do not think TERRA will attack UK... It'll be a stupid strategical move. I do not see Brazilian, Argentinian, German or French hit hard in UK. And it'd the last mistake i'll accept from TERRA...
Sad time will comme when Uk and France won't be strong enough to "afford" their friendship anymore. The more you go down the ladder, the less other will pay attention to your desires.
Even now, will One superpowers be incline to accept UK whilst allowing you to restrain from fighting France or Germany ? Right now the best thing UK can offer One is not being part of Tera or Eden, and well... they won't do much for something that's already acquired.
Well you still have a bunch of influential players and a strong friendship with Serbia. Maybe that will be enough to get what you d'like and what we would like you to have, but... Ultimately you should do what's best for your country and that probably spells joining One whatever the cost. Sad
Nya - I highly doubt any in Terra would attack us. The only likely candidates would be USA/Canada but I highly doubt they would.
Ovipare - We don't want to join ONE 😐
Poland would have NE'd us if it wasn't for our Serbian friendship/MPP.
Not to mention we were deployed in Poland/Spain for a week fighting in the resistance
@JyM22: We are too weak to do anything. We'd be about as successful as the Entente. Poland could eat us all for breakfast.
@Revolt: After WW2 the Nazis were completely dead and occupied, with nobody left to fight. The rules of erepublik mean that that will never be the case with ONE, EDEN and Terra will always have to work against them as they don't just disappear when beaten. Terra let it go without comment when the US proposed us Natural Enemy, it is in no way not just an extension of EDEN.
@Nya Muad Dib: I don't Terra they would either, but the US, Canada and EDEN would certainly help Ireland and not oppose Poland if they tried.
We are the last country effectively fighting for Phoenix, but it is unlikely to remain a tenable position in the long-run as our allies fight each other and leave us with fewer and fewer MPPs.
@daniecox - It's true that Poland is bound to seek natural resources in Western Europe esp. Germany but maybe there's a deal to be worked out. The only real obstacle is Poland lacking a real NE, but such an opponent presents itself in Russia.
One of our main complaints and frustrations is that you and France joined Terra to be meatshields that held us back (successfully) from our actual target. The Polish German war may have caused this and this may have been a failure in diplomacy - it wasn't obvious to anyone at the time how strongarming a belligerent Germany might backfire strategically. Remember how they weren't erased at the time? You might not like Hungary, but we still have respect for you and as far as we're concerned we owe you one for WW3.
Perhaps the real value of a W European alliance would lie in it's strategic location between E Europe and N America. If WW5 thought us anything is that if ONE and N American powers want to get at each other, they must go through W Europe. Both sides would need to court your alliance and landswaps could be very lucrative. Making an enemy of you has clearly proven to be a strategic error and to be frank, erasing Germany or France offered little satisfaction since our real goal could not be reached.
@JyM22: What kind of resources Poland would need? Just think about it. They need fruit, aluminium, iron,...all of it, they can have it by conquering 3 regions of Germany: it's already something big. But after that, they would need oil, cattle or rubber. Those would need even more regions and some others for the transit routes.
No, as long as countries want all resources (which isn't really useful), it will be hard to get an agreement between Poland and Germany I think.
(On a personal opinion: I'm still sad to fight against Hungary, Serbia, Macedonia,...And can't rejoice for the victories of some of my allies)
@Urso - right. You had no real reason to fear since you were never our real target. Remember, Serbia went to the UK, Spain is where it is and Poland was already in NA. All that was needed was to keep the French v. Spanish front closed, but nooooooo...
That's where it all went wrong. When the US started it's "gangbang" to throw you and Russia under the bus while they played around in Mexico... and they still failed.
I've got a different point of view. 😁
Your memories are right: almost all ONE countries could directly attack the "Pig Mac" (sic). And so you did...not. You manage to close the war with the Russians. But then, Serbia get RW'ed. Spain NE France. Poland NE Germany. (Hungary NE Romania, but seems logical). Why? You said you wanted USA, and you're attacking everywhere else. I'm not judging, I'm just wondering that: you could have attacked the Americans, without much trouble. But you choose not to do it. Why?
Egypt juggles neutrality 🙂 And we has all our territories once again XD.
eNL is neutral. It works out fine. Joining ONE would be the fastest way to get wiped though.
I'd rather get wiped than join ONE.
Italy has been neutral during half a year after leaving PEACEGC. They were in the ENTENTE and fighting EDEN but they were not really pro Phoenix.
@Urso - Serbia just made it to the UK when the UK suddenly joined Terra. This created a problem because the UK promised that they would not be used as a launchpad for invasion. Croatia was not erased yet so Serbia was not ready to join the fun in the US. Then the excuse of "saving Germany" was used for you, Russia and Germany to attack Poland. You could have simply RW'd some of their regions at this point.
As soon as you attacked, the gangbang could not happen until all your wars were closed down. Spain attacked you not because Poland couldn't take you, but to erase you sooner so the real gangbang could start already.
So basically, all your regions that were taken should have been an American state. You literally traded 1 or 2 pounds of your flesh every day to save 1 or 2 pounds of the US' until you were erased. You are called heroes, but you can clearly see that in fact you are meatshields. The victims of superior foreign policy.