A Depressing Moral Dilemma
Rigour6
40 days since last I published, and to be honest, it's because I've been focused on real-world things, but also because I haven't been jazzed at what's been happening here.
The disappearance of Wally Cleaver (and I hope he's OK) was sort of the latest what-can-happen-next circus of eCanadian politics, but there was a silver lining in the cloud for once, and it was the elevation of Treian to CP. I have seen T at work for a couple of years now, and he's always impressed me as a straight shooter, skilled player, and guy with the interests of the team at heart.
Now comes this:
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-treian-cp-the-reality-of-things-1856247/1/20
I'll state for the record that I take Treian at his word. I am going to assume, despite the weird circumstances that seemingly led to this juncture, that his intentions are as they are stated there.
I understand and give him credit for making the fine calculation that this is the lesser of two evils.
As a voter, this creates a moral dilemma. If I disagree with the policy mix of Aeriela, I am being forced to vote for Rolo, on the faint hope that this time, Rolo will keep his word.
If fool me twice is shame on me, what would fool me three times be? And what is this, Number 4?
Remember the Wes Lewis CP fiasco? Has there been any real indication that the Rolo we see today is a changed man from the Rolo we saw then?
I believe that Rolo on some level wishes to rehabilitate his reputation. This is why he has become such a relentless poster on the issue of other's more minor misappropriations of funds. He wishes to be lumped in with the petty thieves, rather than excoriated as the greatest single thief and betrayer of the nations' trust in eCanada's history. It may well be that this proposed partnership with Treian is a way for him to show good faith, and make his way back. Unfortunately, it may also be another opportunity for Rolo to, whether for the lulz or in furtherance of his, "See, there's nothing wrong with the thief, it's the stupid victims who are to blame" argument, to wreak mayhem yet again.
I am a great believer in reconciliation, and I have expressed my concerns in the past about how the whole Rolo thing went down. But we are at where we are at. If Rolo wants to rehabilitate himself, or to take his place as one the skilled and leading team members which he deserves to be, there is a much simpler way than another wild leap of faith by the rest of us. It is, as it has always been:
1. Return of the outstanding balance of stolen gold
2. A full and frank apology for the malicious destruction of team assets which Rolo did while in a position of trust
3. Voluntary serving of any sentence remaining as imposed by the courts.
He does that, he'd have my vote and more: my respect. It takes a very big man to admit he's been wrong; so big, you almost never see it. Rolo could be such a man.
For now, the dilemma remains. As one voter, here's how I'm resolving it:
I think, in the long run, far more harm has been done to this team by thefts from people in positions of trust, than has ever been done by poor policy.
Poor policy has resulted in the complete loss of the nation, to be sure, but when the policy was reversed, we recovered. The thefts have been a continual cancer, sapping morale, hurting recruitment and retention, creating distrust, fueling flame wars, and generally making this place an unpleasant place to be. I never minded losing a war to a declared enemy. But the wounds inflicted by friends, those scars still sting.
Sorry, Treian. If it was your name on the ballot I'd be enthusiastically voting, and offering the last hospital I was able to make as a donation. But I cannot bring myself to put an X next to Rolo's name on the hope that this time he's not playing us. I'll state for the record that I really hope I'm wrong about this, and that my fears for once are unfounded.
SR Volume 31, Number 1
Comments
o7 o7 o7
Can't agree with u more....
o/
I see no dilemma in this decision. I would sooner vote for a two clicker than to vote for Rolo. I also have to question what got us to this point as well. For a year or so now EPIC has sent out PM's asking people to vote for who should be nominated as the choice of the party, but I myself didn't get a message this month. It could have been done solely on the forum, but that is a change from the way things have always been done, since it's always been the mind of the party to try and include the less active. This leads me to question why we are at the state we are at now with only two real choices, and exactly what did bring us here with Rolo once again on a very disturbingly suspect ballot.
Also, my prediction as to what is going to happen is this. Aeriala wins the election, within a week is impeached due to the several people who hate him etc. Rolo assumes the presidency and his supporters then begin with the "well it's either him or a two clicker" discussion and attempt to scare the populace into accepting Rolo as Prime Minister. Of course they won't point out that scenario until AFTER they have impeached Aeriala.
If Aeriala is impeached, and after if Rolo is impeached, I think the presidency will then go back to Aeriala again.
Here here!
there is another choice, addy is not a two clicker just because he goes camping for a few days on a long weekend?
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-wyd-when-opportunity-knocks-day-1384--1856780/1/20
"The disappearance of Wally Cleaver (and I hope he's OK)"
Wally's fine.
And people seem to forget that Rolo has tried to start making amends, and people didn't want him to.
The last time HOPE went looking for a Q5 Weapon Factory Rolo offered one up. He was gonna donate the gold for one to congress who would transfer it to HOPE and they could buy one of Rolo's. Congress said no. They didn't want to take what he was offering.
Before Rolo was elected in June he said that should he be elected and allowed to serve a full term (because he felt he was robbed of one last september with what everyone agrees was an illegal impeachment) he would return all outstanding funds and companies. What did Congress do? They impeached him at the first opportunity.
Every attempt Rolo has made to fix this situation has been thrown back in his face. He wants to be part of the community, that's clear to anyone that reads his articles. All we need to do is give him a chance. He feels just as wronged as the rest of you do, and he wants to make amends all we have to do is let him.
It's pixels people, give me a break.
Implicit in what Rolo is saying (and in your description) is the message: Rolo is the wronged party here, Rolo did nothing wrong, Rolo wants only justice.
That is not an apology. It is a call for vindication.
"all we have to do is let him."
I give Rolo permission to pay us back our gold. I give him permission to pay us back part of our gold. I give permission to Rolo to pay it in installments or in lump sum. I will even help him find the little "donate" button that has always existed. Somehow, i didn't think he needed help or permission. Maybe WE aren't the problem? Which is the point of Rigour's article.
One problem with supporting Rolo is you have to jettisson critical thinking to buy what he is selling. Congress did not need to permit Rolo to donate gold. He could do that all by himself. What congress didn't like was that the gold would be paid right back to Rolo.
That's not true, they could of taken his gold and bought a company from someone else. No one was stopping them from doing that.
The fact is the voter's have spoken and elected him once. If they elect him again who is congress to defy the will of the people regardless of his past actions?
And I understood the point of Rigour's article completely. What I'm saying is that we aren't really as innocent as we think. If someone robs you, gets caught, isn't forced to make reparations (which is essentially the case here) but offers you back some of your stuff anyway and you say no, that's on you.
If he offers to pay you back some of your stuff, that is one thing.
If he asks if you will give him the keys to your apartment in order to pay you back some of your stuff, that is another.
Only one person is stopping Rolo from repaying the team resources he took.
actually muglack --- congress was absolutely okay with taking the gold and having jacobi buying from someone else. Vanquizor's company was for sale. Rolo wouldn't go for it. But you can read the forums and the articles as well as I can. Rolo can STILL give congress money. Rolo was ALSO given a golden opportunity to pay back a small FRACTION of what he took in FULL discharge. The Court took a lot of flack for giving him that chance. Which he promptly ignored.
Only one person is stopping Rolo from repaying the team resources he took.
To clarify for the fools like *cough* Olivermellors *cough*
The reason the 342 Gold had to be returned to me when my company was purchased was because at the time I had 5 companies I was going to attempt to transfer. So 342 gold comes back to me with one company sold, repeat process for company 2, company 3, etc...
The reason I never took your BS deal olivermellors is because you were attempting to cut me with a double edge sword. clearly written between the lines of your "decision" was that I would have then been charged complicate with the Wes Lewis thefts, and then promptly re-banned
also it was shown clearly, the forum admins do not respect, nor report to the SC, so you in effect had no power to implement the terms of your decision anyways
rolo: let's just talk to each other cause no one else is particularly interested. The following is not meant to persuade you, or others. You may wish to reflect on it in private if you are being truthful.
1. wasn't my deal. I had to be persuaded by the other judges.
2. You were given various alternatives. All were designed to give you a way to rejoin the community. You were even given the chance to suggest your OWN plan to rejoin the community. IF you had concerns about being charged for a different theft, you had every opportunity to raise it.
3. None of us were underhanded or devious or thought to trick you in any way. If you suspected something underhanded that was unfortunate. When you are yourself underhanded it is easy to imagine that others are the same way. It is too bad since the Court specifically dealt with the principle of multiplicity of charges (kineapple) when dismissing a bunch of charges against you.
4. when it came to applying the laws, i tended to be quite a stickler for principle, no matter who benefited. When we found that the criminal code was an absolute mess, we dismissed the criminal code charges against you, for instance. I can't speak for the other two judges but IF someone in the community had decided to bring NEW charges for the Wes Lewis theft (possible in theory) they would have had a VERY tough time convincing me that these were not "included" in the previous sentence. Don't know what the outcome would have been.
5. I don't know of a single instance when the forum administrators refused to follow an order from the Court.
6. I don't like you. That makes not a bit of difference.
7. I respect your intelligence. Hence, i don't believe 90% of what you say.
"5. I don't know of a single instance when the forum administrators refused to follow an order from the Court."
The forum admins, and one in particular, said straight up that his ban would never be lifted.