A Defence of the House of Lords
House of Lords
Many of you are wondering why the House of Lords attracts so much attention and controversy. Furthermore, many of you wonder why we should even have such a body in the eUK. The answer is simple: the House of Lords is central part of the eUK political system and provides a necessary pool of expertise and a check on the highly flawed democratic system that exists in this game.
The House of Lords consists of distinguished people that have either had multiple terms in the HoC, former and current government ministers and high ranking military experts. It means that those people that have the most expertise in our country are able to provide advice on any pressing issues and legislation that are being debated at any time. Those that oppose the HoL generally throw a number of arguments out to say why it is unnecessary.
"The HoL is Not Democratically Elected"
The first argument is that it is undemocratic. They argue that the Lords are not elected and since they don't vote in-game it should not exist. First of all, most of the political structure in this game happens outside of the in-game setup. Alliances such as PEACE and EDEN are not in-game features yet they make binding decisions and take actions. Most of the legislation in the HoC that has been debated and passed does not have an in-game effect and was not voted on in-game.
Moreover, the democracy point is highly flawed as well. The large number of PTOs that have happened in this game and still continue to happen show just how flawed the democratic system is in this game. The fact that someone is elected really means little as it is quite easy to either engineer your own election, or in many cases you can just show up and win. The HoL does not block legislation. It can delay it for valid reasons. Each time this power has been exercised it has been because the HoC missed something or failed to consider an important point. The HoC can bypass the HoL if it chooses so it maintains ultimate responsibility.
"The HoL is Elitist"
Some argue that the HoL is elitist and they can run for the HoC if they want to. People move to the HoL so that newer players can get a shot at getting involved in the political side of the game. If all the Lords were to stay in the HoC, very few new people would ever be elected. It allows the HoC to continue to be a fluid body.
However, at the same time, the HoC has proven that it is not always the best at doing its job. Often times, members blindly vote for measures without reading them or realising what they actually mean. The HoL has caught these mistakes and pointed them out to the HoC. If we were to get rid of the HoL, many of these mistakes would go uncorrected and cause large problems down the line. The HoL takes a non-partisan and detailed look at measures that come before it. The HoC is generally unable to do this given that its whole point is to be a partisan body.
Some also criticise some of the members chosen to be in the HoL. However, spies and other unsavoury characters have been elected to the HoC through either ignorance of the voting public or engineering by supporters. In fact, we have had to ban some MPs from receiving access to sensitive information due their suspected or confirmed status as a spy. It is far more likely that a person with ill intent would get into the HoC than the HoL. Thus, their argument fails here.
"People must Choose Politics or the Military"
People dislike the fact that many in the paras are in the HoL and say that they must choose one or the other. This argument lacks any merit. First of all, there is no reason for this argument other than HoC members must stay in country. However, the ministers do not have this requirement. This is particularly true of the MoDFA and MoFA. This is often the most powerful ministerial spot and has a large effect on domestic affairs in the eUK. They are both politicians and member of the military in many cases. No one forces them to choose one or the other. There is no reason to do so with the HoL. There is no other reason to force our most experienced military members to stop helping our allies just so a few detractors can be satisfied. Forcing them to run for the HoC would deprive us of our strongest military force, hurt our allies and likely deny newer people a seat in the HoC.
The arguments presented to abolish the HoL are based on few, if any facts and are generally just assertions made by those that are more so interested in a power grab than actually making politics better. In fact, many of those that are against the HoL actively campaigned to be members of the HoL. It is a vital part of the eUK and it makes our system stronger.
Support the House of Lords
Comments
Zycon fully supports the HoL.
I fully support the House of Lords.
I support the House of Lords.
So what you're basically saying is this:
Democracy = Bad
Elitism = Good
If he were saying that, he'd be calling for the disbanding of Commons...
@john - yep thats just about the whole article.
"Some argue that the HoL is elitist and they can run for the HoC if they want to." they do it anyway, they dont give much room for anybody new at all.
I fully support the House of Lords!
' the HoC has proven that it is not always the best at doing its job'
'so that newer players can get a shot at getting involved in the political side of the game. '
You just contradicted yourself. Read my article. And the thing is the MoFA/MoD do not have a vote in commons on Legislation.
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/elitists-fight-to-the-bitter-end-935726/1/20" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/elit[..]/1/20
It's amazing how many votes having 50+ orgs can get you isn't it? Probably double that when you include all of the Lords.
I know, I was about to say that. This article does not represent public opinion. It represents a very large number of orgs controlled by a small group of people.
Some actual quotes from the discussion:
Widdows9000, Lor😛 "On your point about us losing the trust of the people? Does that really matter?"
Widdows9000, Lor😛 "The fact that the Lords are not answerable to the public is what makes us so useful, when we vote upon a proposal we don't vote based on what the people want"
LordJustice, UKRP Congressman West Midlands:
"The public is largely ill informed and anyone can and does get elected."
"If by normal players, you mean those that two click, are not forum active and merely vote for anybody based on their avatar then I don't have concern for them."
I think you guys are overplaying the true power of the HoL. All they can really do is slow down legislation not block it. If I am mistaken and they can full stop block legislation then I would like that power removed, but I will never stop supporting the HoL and would not rest if it was abolished to re-introduce it - if with a new function and procedure.
These are all by people who oppose abolishing the Lords by the way...
RoadRunnerSpeed, soon to be ex-Lor😛 "Kick me out of Lords if you want, I will just get a seat in HoC."
After reading this I fully agree that this is the best arrangement we can currently come up with.
Whilst not against the Lords per se (although it raises some interesting questions regarding democracy, and how we keep the greatest amount of power in the hands of the average citizen), my current beef with HoL actually regards RoadRunnerSpeed (RRS). He is a man who has served in the halls of power and has much experience. In many ways he would be a perfect candidate for what the Lord's is trying to be (an advisory body), but for one tiny detail; he STOLE from the eUK treasury-ie, the people's money. He stole to make a point and force a PM to make choices that suited him, and not only did he hold the government to ransom, but he kept some of the gold himself! RRS has made no apology for his actions (at least from what I see), and this is why he should not be allowed to hold any seat in the Lord's; it is more for HoL sake than it is for RRS! If men like this are allowed to be 'rewarded' after one of the most highly dubious and debated actions in recent eUK history, then I feel the HoL has become an irrelevant body!
As for the issue of elitism, I would tend to agree that HoL and some of the government, are elitist. Indeed, some of these men are so confident in their ability, that they are cynical enough to not bother with election campaigns etc (indeed, some have boasted of this fact). I think it is sad to see such cynicism in our politicians.
Essential I respect some of the Lord's, but it must act to cut out the elitism and arrogance that seems to be a part of it.
The existence of Lords is a separate issue from roadrunnerspeed. The Commons is, under the current arrangement, quite capable of keeping him out of Lords, and are doing so.
when was the last time HoL actually delayed anything?!?!?!
It's funny that this is the first article in this newspaper. It's like HoL started to care about Public Relations - now that their existence is threatened. Too little, too late?
The Bank of England supports the House of Lords. LONG LIVE OUR INSTITUTIONS.
Free Britain DOES NOT SUPPORT THE LORDS!
Until they can operate with the interests of the people of the eUK in mind, and not their own, then they have no relevance to our people. They are bloated, out of touch and aim only to pursue their own agenda, at the expense of the average citizen!
Let this be the warning call that the HoL needs if it is to become an institution that has any relevance to our nation! And let our representatives in the House of Commons stand strong in the face of Lord's opposition. The people have elected our MPs to look out for us...we at Free Britain hope they can do so!
These organizations speaking pseudonymously are so brave...
I support the House of Lords
Save the House of Lords!
Lords out!
The only merit of your arguement is that a proposal must be checked and even delayed due to errors or HoC not reading it correctly.
Firstly, if you want the HoC to read the proposals correctly, run for the HoC and do it yourself.
Secondly, I agree that there should be a power above the HoC to delay proposals, however, it should not be the HoL but a Governor General or even a Monarch, with no power other than to delay proposals.
Thirdly, there is no reason that you cannot have a mixture of new and old for Parliment, it should be the responsibility of the Political Party to ensure that there are vacancies so that citizens can run for the congress elections, with a well thought out balance between Experience and Potential.
@Lord Weiis: If they don't delay anything - what's the point of them?
This is an excellent article on the influence and nature of the House of Lords. Your arguments about the viability of such a government organ are superb, beautifullu written and correct.
The HoL, as stated, does not propose legislation nor does it block legislation. Delays are only used as a means to establish and resolve issues within it. Typically, legislation is simply passed by the HoL within a matter of weeks.
Voted!
'It's amazing how many votes having 50+ orgs can get you isn't it? Probably double that when you include all of the Lords.'
Yes well only an inferior mind would come up with such a pathetic excuse, go back to kindergarten where you and your mud belongs. People that don't support this have articles, and chances are have just as many if not more than the Lords 😉. Your unfounded and childish accusations that 50+ orgs have been used to vote this article only embarrasses you by showing your desperation and bias view on the matter. Many people have orgs, we don't all use them although you obviously do...
CheeseBall
'democratic' and 'elitist' are just words. There's nothing intrinsically good or bad about either of them. So anybody who has implied as much so far is an idiot.
Just my two cents.
These arguments dont sound very convincing, who selects who is in the house of lords and how did they gain these responsibilities?
Does the PM select these candicates? If not then it is very well elitism.
'Your unfounded and childish accusations that 50+ orgs have been used to vote this article only embarrasses you by showing your desperation and bias view on the matter. Many people have orgs, we don't all use them although you obviously do...'
RRS openly advertises selling the votes of his 50+ orgs.
"RRS openly advertises selling the votes of his 50+ orgs. "
Doesn't mean I've done it. I can if you want but I see no need. The articles do well enough on their own. However if you want to get my orgs involved feel free to PM me.
If it truly follows the HoL of the british governement then they shouldn't run for HoC since you can't be in both otherwise I support it.
lol they cant get there way in forum after being battered by poeple that dont want it so they post it in game to get more support
How about all the lords get into the HoC then they can do the job they're doing now but stop with they delays. Why wait 2 days to point out the flaws rather than just doing it and sorting it out in one day in the HoC.
Imperial Alliance finally has something in common with ELF. END TO ELITISM!!!
I fully support the HoL, and iain you managed to completely contradict yourself, TUP uses orgs to vote their articles, you see no big deal then.
I can't see the reasonings behind the HoL being a bad thing, all they do is help make decisons, and point the HoC in the right direction they are a body of people who are experienced and a body of people who use their experience to help the eUK, if you don't like it gtfo.
"all they do is help make decisons, and point the HoC in the right direction they are a body of people who are experienced and a body of people who use their experience to help the eUK, if you don't like it gtfo."
Not For much Longer they wont. 😉
the HoL has no supprt from me, it is old and archaic, and useless in a modern democratic society.
"I can't see the reasonings behind the HoL being a bad thing, all they do is help make decisons, and point the HoC in the right direction they are a body of people who are experienced and a body of people who use their experience to help the eUK, if you don't like it gtfo."
It would be alot better having these lords in the HoC where they can put their experience into making the idea as good as possible, this way any problems can be fixed quickly and the more experienced players can refine and better the idea.
The eUK has too much 'red tape' and hopefully this act will be the first of many changes to cut it down and give the Government more time and resorces to make this country, put simply, better.
1) Imo elitism isnt bad but it doesnt allow change and doesnt let new potentially great politions into 'the loop'
2) An good alternative is getting the lords to try to get into congress and do their current job and more while in the HoC rather than the HoL, this also helps keep noobs out of HoC.
3) Like i said before on number 2 😁
4) Congress doesnt need to be checked if they have decent guys in there (ie lords) as the checking can be done by the more experienced.
I will suport the house of lords till the end.
I support the house of lords.