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You are right that we need to be careful with our citizenships. Giving them all (or most of them) to just one group isn't right. A new and more sensible agreement should be negotiated.

I second that.

Well my main hope is that first the cabinet members can discuss viable solutions to the problem, then it should be brought to the entire congress and cabinet members to vote on the choices.

I already vote to end this >: (

(eborn in eUS, so my beliefs will be conflicting : D)

Correct me if im wrong but arent you Vice President because if you are why are you pointing now at this and saying "Its a problem which we must fix" why didnt you do something before those citizenships were given ?

Neznainiqotkrainiq, I believe the point Balkan is making is that a new Congress has taken office, and because of that, the policy needs to be reexamined.

He is kick starting the reexamination with this article. He's not saying it shouldn't have been done in the past, but rather that since they have had a period of free, unquestioned citizenship, it's time to end that period and go back to the normal process.

^this.

By the way Neznainiqotkrainiq it's easy to be a critic when you're not involved in the process at all.

I always voiced my reasons for not approving the agreement.
So don't attempt to say I haven't tried to do something. The first agreement was put up to a vote and approved, nothing I can do about that. Them running for congress(2 being elected), and our president messaging our congressmen in private to approve people was not agreed upon.
And I actually did try to stop the recent approvals among my own party, I told my party's congressmen to hold cs, two did not do so because the president Pm'd them.

I am not a fan of this 'article and comment politics' but let me state some things.. When we had a vote about this you have NOT voiced your reasons, you simply said NO. I hardly heard any reasons from you, maybe except because it's dangerous.

Every single votes, all congressional candidates the kuruces made so far, was because of my request. They simply did nothing on their own. They filled in the empty congress seats on the morning of 23rd to maximize our gold income and to kick out dangerous multies from the list, unfortunately a ton of ppl candidated in the last hours of that day too, I wouldn't thought about. All those who won, donated 5 golds to austria, and agreed not to propose any law nor vote in them. They voted in large numbers in the party presidency polls for MY request and they SAVED our asses against PTOers. It is just not fair that after showing loyalty and helping us you call them dangerous. We can easily do the same with you if we take a look on the past of your views, and past careers. But we do not.

The logic while I think putting this group before other individuals is quiet simple. This is a group. Two or three dozens of friends, who play this game TOGETHER. And that is the point of this all.. an individual can wait, he is alone, a group which is halfly here, halfly there can easily say that "hey you don't want us here, you don't allow my buddies, okay bye bye then cause we stay together".

Why I don't want it? They are pro-ONE like us. What bad can they do? Offer an alliance with Hungary? They have also more money than our whole nation! Balkan, I am liking your work efforts and already told you have stable place in cabinet cause you are a good and active player. So, don't take it as an insult, but how do you come to write an article about this, while you ordered one of your congress friends to give CS without approval in the previous congress term?

I respect the opinions of others in my cabinet and outside of it too. There are ppl who are afraid of the kuruces, but I can say it as always: You will be proven wrong. They have the same thinking as us, they have the same goals as us, and they've already proven themself when they voted on the official candidates in PP elections, when they fought for us hard in battles, when they donated their golds to austria’s treasury and when they spent about a hundred golds on license just to use our national markets.

Of course it is okay to write articles and such, but I don’t like ’article and comment politics’ moreover if it comes from inside the cabinet. If you are so against them then feel free to propose a new poll about this issue. I’m gladly say that next term the next CP, if it will be me, or someone else, I will happily ask all cabinet members’ opinion about this issue and if the majority will say then to slow the immigration then we will obviously do that. This is democracy. We agreed this term about the kuruces. Respect that decision and try to convince the cabinet that one week later vote for no. Just a question: if the cabinet voted yes to them, how do you come to order your congressmen to do something totally against the cabinet decision? In real life my country is facing something similarlike we do here. Democracy is not just then when your opinion is winner or only when you are the leader. Respect the decision and convince others, next time support your ideas. I will do the same, and I think majority will support the kuruces again, as you can have no real facts, nor reasons why to stop them, except shouting loud „they are dangerouus!!”.

With respect,
A.Ememrich

Just a side not: Desinforming the population might be good to reach short term political goals, but it is a harm to our community.

„The agreement was for them to be given instant approval for a month with the remaining passes, completely disregarding our immigration policies in the name of their strength.” - Balkan

The agreement was totally different from that. Everyone can read it in my article I wrote about it: http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/presidental-announcement-important-read--1941904/1/20

Copy from it:

"Considering the poll results and all the players’ opinions, I decided to choose a compromise solution. We will not allow them to enter our country all at once, but we are going to allow definetly more players per month than only three, to avoid a year long transfer, what would be ridiculous. I am going to order the congressmen who are still able to give citizenship, to start giving it to the members of the Kuruc Sereg without CS form approval." - A.Emmerich

First off:
I said no on the vote itself, I said my reasons for not wanting them in the first place, and they were generally along the same lines as every else's. Why would I elaborate in a private message when I made my reasons clear hmm?

Secondly no one said they had to leave in this article, the problem is that they are getting instant approval, and you are overstepping your authority. Also you know what else isn't fair? Others being denied and treated as second class citizens in comparison.

As for comparing them to me, I do believe I actually was viewed as dangerous. I was denied for citizenship once, and I was held to the same standards as everyone else. I didn't get instant cs no questions asked despite being a former resident, nor was I allowed to run in elections during my first month. Nor is this about me anyways, call me dangerous if you like I never hid my past history in fact I embrace it. It brought me here in the first place, why be ashamed?

As for accusations of ordering Congressmen you're not one to talk bro.
I said to hold CS, and wait for a vote to be done. You shouldn't be PMing congressmen individually to approve people, we have MoI's why are they not handling that hmm? I know I am not the only one who feels the agreement must be reworked, and it needs to be done NOW since already 8 have been approved because you obviously went well out of your way to get them approved.

Basically here your argument is: I am saying their dangerous, there are plenty of reasons listed above in that very article, which I am beginning to doubt you even read if that's all you can come up with. I'd suggest reading a second time seriously if that's all you got.

Some reasons? : READ THE ARTICLE.

Your only three facts are: I wrote one false part in the article(along with grammar errors), they fought for us(anyone can do this), and they voted and didn't keep all the gold and made promises.

They can say what they like, you just said we're a democracy, them gaining yet another right other new immigrants are denied without any sort of vote taking place(well actually on irc we did have this discussion and from what I remember no one liked them running except you 😑) isn't very democratic, nor is it equal.

If they would like to be viewed the same as other citizens, then they should go through the same processes. No one said they need to leave, the issue here is the numbers they come here in, and that it isn't fair to other people.

As for my own mistakes, I won't deny mine, nor will that hold me back. From what I remember I didn't invite the Crogyptian buds who also have large amounts of strength and numbers to Austria. Regardless I don't deny that, nor have I ever.

For now however you Shouldn't be mass messaging people to approve them, when it isn't even in your authority to do so. It is Gazonkfoo's job, and Larsulrich87.

And waiting until the next cabinet isn't a option.
8 have already been approved, and only two days have passed. It needs to be done as soon as possible, so I'll be messaging the cabinet to get a discussion doing, and hopefully set up a meeting on irc if at all possible.

If you want to do it in public, then ok..

„Secondly no one said they had to leave in this article, the problem is that they are getting instant approval, and you are overstepping your authority. Also you know what else isn't fair? Others being denied and treated as second class citizens in comparison.” - Balkan

Even not me wrote anything in my arguments about anyone told them to leave. So, this sentence of yours is totally needless and reasonless. Second, CS applicants can not be treated as second class citizens, as they are not even citizens of eAustria. So you are totally false in this one too. Even in that, that applicants should be treated as equals. Because if you told that ’there are secondary applicants’ you would be right. As there are more important and less important applicants for sure. Those who plan for longer terms are primary. Those who want to buy land for cheap and come here with other short term goals are secondary.

„As for accusations of ordering Congressmen you're not one to talk bro.
I said to hold CS, and wait for a vote to be done. You shouldn't be PMing congressmen individually to approve people, we have MoI's why are they not handling that hmm? I know I am not the only one who feels the agreement must be reworked, and it needs to be done NOW since already 8 have been approved because you obviously went well out of your way to get them approved.” - Balkan

I’m CP so obviously it is not just my right, but in some cases it is my duty to do mass PMs. However, no mass PMs happened never. Secondly, you are not even know the process of how things work. CP, MoI and vMoI votes about applicants. If an applicant has two votes then someone, anyone from the above three can PM the congressmen to accept them. Thirdly, as you can read in the agreement they are allowed to come without this process (yes, this means they are primary), so I have all the right to PM or ask on chat congressmen to accept them. The decision of accepting them has made earlier this month. The fact that you don’t accept it is non important, as we live in democracy and we respect the decision made by the majority. As I told this to you and some others in the cabinet, we will make another poll at the very beginning of the next CP term. As we did it this month, we will do what the majority says. Also, I hardly believe that you are not aware the rules and process I wrote down above, I think this is more of attention seeking by your part. Write anything here, attempt to desinformate the populace will not help you. Also, I didn’t just accuse you. Someone whose guiltiness is not proven yet, is accused. You are the one who went straight against the rules, so you are not accused but guilty in breaking rules.

„Basically here your argument is: I am saying their dangerous, there are plenty of reasons listed above in that very article, which I am beginning to doubt you even read if that's all you can come up with. I'd suggest reading a second time seriously if that's all you got.” - Balkan

With this I can’t really do anything. Learn how to argue, tell me why are they so dangerous, or why we should change our policy. Don’t write about the theme only in general, cause it means nothing. As I said the decision was made with a poll, and CSs has been given in a way, as our cabinet publicised it in our media.

„They can say what they like, you just said we're a democracy, them gaining yet another right other new immigrants are denied without any sort of vote taking place(well actually on irc we did have this discussion and from what I remember no one liked them running except you 😑) isn't very democratic, nor is it equal.” - Balkan

This was the interest of our country. PP PTOers (we know whose) have been dealt with. Multies and other PTOers in congressional elections, we’ve tried to dealt with. Clearly you have a problem with these, I do not wish to speculate what is it’s reason.

„If they would like to be viewed the same as other citizens, then they should go through the same processes. No one said they need to leave, the issue here is the numbers they come here in, and that it isn't fair to other people.” - Balkan

I wrote down in my previous comment the reason why they enjoyed exceptions in some cases. Your argument is false. I am sure you wouldn’t write this, if PTOers would tried to take over YOUR party and the kuruces would save YOUR ass.

„As for my own mistakes, I won't deny mine, nor will that hold me back. From what I remember I didn't invite the Crogyptian buds who also have large amounts of strength and numbers to Austria. Regardless I don't deny that, nor have I ever.” - Balkan

The only difference between you and the kuruces, is that they want to arrive ASAP to have their friends inside us, and not divided by living in different countres, and they do it in public. Our government is not blind and we are aware of what happening around us. One third of your party membership are foreigners who were given citizenships after you joined this country. More than half of the individuals who asked CS and stayed eAustrians since nov/dec are now in ASM. I would not continue this train of thought..

„For now however you Shouldn't be mass messaging people to approve them, when it isn't even in your authority to do so. It is Gazonkfoo's job, and Larsulrich87.” - Balkan

This is already explained above. Looks like you do not even know our own rules.

„And waiting until the next cabinet isn't a option.
8 have already been approved, and only two days have passed. It needs to be done as soon as possible, so I'll be messaging the cabinet to get a discussion doing, and hopefully set up a meeting on irc if at all possible.” – Balkan

What is an option and what is not is not your authority to decide. Decision has been made for this month, even with a chompromise as I considered EVERYone’s opinion. You are free to start any discussion with cabinet members, but you are simply not enough to create a problem with „mistakes”/or manipulation? and then question a previously made decision. Someone who do this I call troublemaker, not vCP.

Such discussions + popcorn = priceless : D

@Balkan
Im part of every imigration process since im part of the congress and the congress holds the citizenship passes not the government. Im a critic, okey I dont see something bad in constructive criticism, its useful, its not trollism. So after reading this wall of comments I have some questions direct to you.

1. If you were against the coming of the Hungarian MU in Austria why didnt you wrote an article in that time but you do it now right before CP elections ?

2. You say there is injustice in the act of Hungarians from that MU being with bigger priority in giving citizenships but do you know the people which you pointed as people known how to act - GazonkFoo, LarsUlric87 and the government constantly gave citizenships to JaFe without following the procedures which must be for "everybody" just because he was "special" with high-status and higly-trusted though he resently stole 100 000 ATS from the Austrian National Treasary and he still didnt restore them or somebody else who is guilty of him getting his hands on such money ?

All in all whats up with this circus over here fighting injustice and acting all like Captain America when your supporters are people from the government who in the past actively took part in violating their own laws which are suppose to be for "everbody". I dont state everybody did so I just state some did. Whatever ...

By you're not involved in the process I mean you're not in cabinet, so you were not involved in the discussions or voting on this issue.

1. I don't write articles often, the admins killed my creative spirit in that regard long ago. I wrote an article now to bring the matter to the attention of citizens outside of the cabinet. I also write it now because there is a new congress, and I felt the policy should be changed. Now the opportunity for change is possible because of this, and I am perfectly fine that it costed me my position. Titles are meaningless to me, If a few citizens get accepted to austria who genuinely want to join our society then it is most definitely worth it.

2. That is an issue I was not around for and I am not going to attempt to blame anyone for that. Things wouldn't have been any different in my opinion if anyone else were in the same position.

3. I recognize there is hypocrisy with our laws. It is undeniable in fact, however I cannot speak for others, I can only speak for myself. My solution to the problem is to simply have a cap on how many can arrive this month, the agreement should then be discussed each month after that to modify it if the situation changes, and approval of CS should be handled by the Ministry of interior since it is their department. If I had it my way, they would be questioned the same as everyone else and treated as individuals instead of a single unit.

I'm not in cabinet anymore though so I do not have a say in the matter other than voicing my opinion here.
And I do not regret any of this other than my misinformation that I thought the agreement was only for a month of instant CS passes, everything else no regrets whatsoever.

--
As for A.Emmerich's comments I'm not going to address them further, we already had our flame war on irc and that went pretty much nowhere and made us both little more than assholes.

Immigration laws are naturally less strict if the peron applying for citizenship is well known and has been an eAustrian for a while already. If you (and everyone else involved in the process) already know somebody, there's not much need for a thorough inquiry. Regarding JaFe - he was just what you say: a highly trusted person. He had been president and MoF before. Nobody saw his betrayal coming, which is why he got that loan in the first place. And he obviously didn't get CS after his theft (though I doubt he even tried).

anyone else who would like to argue with me you'll have to wait a week since I am likely not going to be on eRep for that long 😉

Hopefully I will be back sooner, but I will not be on IRC at all, hopefully I will be able to check messages at least, but that depends entirely on how my phone acts.

I was never informed of having open cs to kurucs, whether it was last congress term or this one 🙂