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V teh dneh s Švicarji začenjamo pogajanja o možnosti podpisa sporazuma o nenapadanju (Non-Agression Pact, NAP). Včeraj zvečer se je odvil uvodni sestanek, na katerem so bili predstavljeni predlogi in želje obeh strani. Slovenska vlada želi k zadevi pristopiti celovito, zato smo se v želji, da bi se naši državljani seznanili z učinki tovrstnega sporazuma v praksi, obrnili na več vidnejših predstavnikov nemške in poljske skupnosti, da so nam odgovorili na nekaj vprašanj o njihovem NAP. Nemško-poljska situacija je bila namreč sorodna slovensko-švicarski, Nemčija je bila neprestano brisana s strani Poljske, obe strani sta se izčrpavali v uporniških vojnah, vse od podpisa NAP, do katerega je prišlo leta 2012, pa državi sobivata brez najmanjših težav.

Na tam mestu bi se radi zahvalili dead dreamerju, Freiheitskaempferju, Doctoriusu, Takelberyju, MisziPL in Sir Marvinu, ker so si vzeli čas in odgovorili na naša vprašanja.



NEMČIJA

Kako bi opisal tradicionalne odnose, ki so vladali med Nemčijo in Poljsko pred podpisom NAP?

dead dreamer:
Neprestano smo bili izbrisani. Včasih, ko so bili Poljaki zaposleni z drugimi regijami svojega imperija, smo imeli eno ali dve regiji, večinoma pa smo bili lahko srečni, če smo imeli eno regijo in kongres. To je bil čas neprestanih bitk. Številnim starejšim igralcem so ostale v spominu ključne bitke iz tega časa, recimo bitka za Saarland (zadnja regija, ki smo jo imeli takrat pod nadzorom), ki je postala znana pod imenom bitka za Saarlingrad (po Stalingradu), ker smo takrat žrtvovali čisto vse za zmago v bitki z mnogo močnejšim in številčnejšim sovražnikom. Poljska je že takrat imela neprimerno več igralcev od nas. Zaradi tega Poljaki seveda niso bili priljubljeni, po drugi strani pa je bila akcija v tistih časih koristna za skupnost, vsi smo držali skupaj. Dandanašnji vlada dolgčas.

Preden odgovorim na drugo vprašanje, bi rad povedal še, da so že pred sedajšnjim NAP obstajali poskusi sporazuma. Prvič so ga prelomili Poljaki, drugič tudi (mislim sicer, da je takrat šlo za nesporazum oziroma poljski politiki niso mogli obvladati ljudstva, ki je sovražilo Nemce zaradi razlogov iz resničnega življenja ali nečesa že). V tretjem poskusu bi morali plačati veliko količino zlata, vendar nihče ni zaupal Poljakom, ker so že prej kršili sporazum, zato je bilo precej nasprotovanja. Kot vidite, je preteklo precej vode, preden smo prišli do stabilnega NAPa.

Freiheitskaempfer:
Vladali so sovražni odnosi, vedno nas je bilo strah, da ne bomo imeli predsedniških in kongresniških volitev (kar v tistih časih ni bila redkost), dokler nismo podpisali NAP.

Doctorius:
Usoda Nemčije pred NAP je bila enolična, ali smo bili izbrisani s strani Poljske ali pa smo se trudili osvoboditi katero izmed regij. Če nam je uspelo odobiti kakšno regijo, so nas spet izbrisali. In spet. Vse skupaj je postalo nesmiselno, zato smo začeli razmišljati o podpisu NAP.

Katere so po tvojem mnenju največje prednosti NAP za Nemčijo?

dead dreamer:
Seveda to, da imamo kongres. Pa to, da imamo vsaj nekaj resursov, zaradi katerih obdržimo državljane. Ker smo majhni in šibki, je za nas pomemben čisto vsak igralec. Po pravici povedano bi bili po mojem mnenju še dosti šibkejši, če ne bi šli v navezo z Dansko. Sčasoma smo pridobili več originalnih regij; po podpisu NAP smo dobili eno, zdaj imamo štiri.

Freiheitskaempfer:
Največja prednost so volitve, ljudje se lahko posvečajo ekonomiji, dobivajo politične medalje in imajo državo, v kateri lahko živijo.

Doctorius:
Največja prednost je v tem, da novih igralcev že v začetku ne odvrne dejstvo, da Nemčija ne obstaja. Po naših izkušnjah ima to velik vpliv na nove igralce, zato obstoj države dolgoročno zelo vpliva na število igralcev iz te države. Pa tudi za starejše igralce je dober občutek, da lahko živijo v originalni regiji.

So nemški državljani podprli predlog podpisa NAP s Poljsko?

dead dreamer:
Kot sem omenil že prej, so bili Nemci proti. Vedno je bil kdo, ki je protestiral, da bi to pomenilo vdajo, vdati pa se ne smemo, po drugi strani pa so se nekateri navduševali nad idejo, da bi nam to omogočilo kongres, trg itd. Lahko rečem, da so bili ljudje na splošno proti zamisli, da bi Poljakom plačevali naše regije z zlatom. Sčasoma so se duhovi pomirili. Še vedno imamo nekaj igralcev, ki neprestano zahtevajo uporniške vojne, vendar jih nihče ne jemlje resno, ker se vsi zavedamo, da ne bi imeli možnosti za zmago. Če bi šli vsi v boj s Poljaki, se lahko poslovimo od NAP in smo spet izbrisani.

Freiheitskaempfer:
Večina državljanov je bila naveličana neskončnih bitk s Poljsko, izbrisov, osvoboditev, izbrisov, osvoboditev, izbrisov, in tako naprej. Zaradi tega je večina podprla NAP.

Doctorius:
Sprva je bilo na ta račun precej kritik, zdaj tega skoraj ni več. Nekateri pravijo, da nas je Poljska zasužnjila, ampak to je navadna neumnost. Za NAP nismo plačali niti ficka, Poljska pa je imela vse možnosti, da od nas izsili plačilo. Zdaj je večina Nemcev popolnoma zadovoljna z NAP.

POLJSKA

Kako bi opisal tradicionalne odnose, ki so vladali med Nemčijo in Poljsko pred podpisom NAP?

Takelbery:
Odnosi med državama so bili v preteklosti zelo viharni. Svoje je dodala tudi sovražnost, ki je v preteklosti vladala med državama v resničnosti. Marsikdo se ne spominja več, da je od začetka Nemčija zasedala poljske regije. Ko je Poljska postala močna, se je uprla, ponovno osvojila svoje regije in sčasoma zbrisala Nemčijo. Neprestane bitke so izčrpavale obe državi in niso prinesle ničesar novega. Evforija je počasi minila in bitke so postale rutina. Premirje je bilo tisto, ki je normaliziralo naše odnose.

MisziPL:
Poljska je imela na izbiro dve državi, ki bi jih lahko izbrisala, Nemčijo in Rusijo. Zaradi resnične zgodovine in odnosov smo izbrali Nemčijo. Za nameček smo bili leta 2008 pod njihovo okupacijo, zato odnosi resnično niso bili dobri.

Sir Marvin:
Zaradi resnične sovražnosti so bili naši odnosi z Nemčijo zelo slabi. Poleg tega so nas na začetku eRepublika Nemci kar za nekaj časa izbrisali. Po tistem smo imeli nekaj baby boomov, postali smo imperij v svetovnem merilu in smo se z lahkoto maščevali. Nemčija je ena izmed naših sosednjih držav, zato je ni bilo težko večkrat izbrati za tarčo. Zadnja poljsko-nemška vojna se je odvila aprila 2012. Pred tem smo utrpeli kar hud udarec, obdržali smo samo osrednje regije, nakar smo začeli vojno z Nemčijo in zmagali. A kar nismo želeli neprestanega odtekanja energije zaradi uporniških vojn, je bil NAP logična izbira.

Katere so po tvojem mnenju največje prednosti NAP za Poljsko?

Takelbery:
Premirje med Poljsko in Nemčijo obstaja nepretrgano od maja 2012. Mislim, da prinaša koristi obema stranema, sicer se ne bi obdržalo tako dolgo. Po zaslugi NAP Poljska uživa v 10/10 bonusih, Nemci pa imajo svoje regije in zagotovilo, da jih močnejša soseda ne bo napadla. Premirje dokazuje, da je moč lahko nepomembna. Z dobro voljo lahko pridemo do kompromisa, s katerim sta zadovoljni obe strani.

MisziPL:
Po mojem mnenju je največja prednost mir na zahodni meji, oni ne napadajo nas, mi ne napadamo njih. Imamo eno resno uporniško vojno manj in zagotovljeno pot do bonusov, zato dogovor smatram za dober.

Sir Marvin:
Kot prvo se ne izčrpavamo z uporniškimi vojnami. Nemčija brezhibno izpolnjuje svoje NAP obveznosti. Premirja niso prekršili niti enkrat (ne upoštevam incidentov, ko so se druge države borile v imenu Nemčije izključno zato, da bi jezile nas). Poleg tega imamo zavarovane resurse - če bi izgubili nadzor nad eno izmed regij, bi ga nemudoma dobili nazaj. To se je enkrat zgodilo in Nemčija ni povzročala nobenih težav.

So poljski državljani podprli predlog podpisa NAP z Nemčijo?

Takelbery:
Kot pri vsaki pogodbi smo bili sprva skeptični. Spraševali smo se, če se bo dolgoročno zadeva obnesla. S strani naše vlade je bilo v dogovor vloženega veliko truda. Zelo pomembno je, da se državljane obvesti o prednostih podpisa oziroma podaljšanja takega dogovora, kot tudi o negativnih posledicah, ki jih s seboj prinese kršitev.

MisziPL:
Sprva so se pojavljali dvomi, vendar ni bilo resnejših problemov, NAP pa je v veljavi že skoraj leto in pol. Dokler je situacija ugodna za obe strani, ne more iti nič narobe.

Sir Marvin:
Reakcije so bile normalne in pričakovane - nekateri državljani so podprli podpis sporazuma, ker so razumeli, kakšne prednosti prinaša, drugi pa so na zadevo gledali omejeno in so zganjali cirkus v smislu “Omg, omg, karkoli, samo ne Nemčija!”. Podpis NAPa je bil odlična odločitev. Že leto in pol imamo 10/10 bonusov, obstoj nemškega kongresa ni bil ogrožen niti enkrat. Po tako dolgem času NAP podpirajo praktično vsi, kar ni nič čudnega, saj se odlično obnese.



ENGLISH:

Slovenia and Switzerland are starting negotiations and making first steps towards signing a Non-Agression Pact. In the first meeting, which took place yesterday, both sides put their suggestions and wishes on the table. Slovenian government intends to take a wholesome approach towards the matter, so we asked visible representatives of the German and Polish society to answer a few NAP-related questions. The goal was to show to our citizens how such a treaty works in practice. The German-Polish situation used to be similar to the Slovenian-Swiss one, Germany used to be wiped most of the time, there was constant RW drain on both sides, but ever since the NAP signing in the year 2012 there have been no problems on either side.

We would like to express our gratitude to dead dreamer, Freiheitskaempfer, Doctorius, Takelbery, MisziPL and Sir Marvin, who all kindly took the time from their busy schedules and answered our questions.



GERMANY

How would you describe the traditional (pre-NAP) relations between Germany and Poland?

dead dreamer:
Well we were constantly wiped. Sometimes we had 1 or 2 regions, because the poles were busy in other regions of their "empire", but oftentimes we were just lucky to have one region for having a congress. It was a time of constant battle. Many players which are old enough to remember, also remember a few key battles from this time, like the battle for the Saarland (the last region we had for this time), it is dubbed the battle for Saarlingrad (like Stalingrad), because everyone gave everything to win this fight against an enemy with FAR more soldiers than we (like today, poland had very many players and we had not). Because of all this, the Poles were not liked of course. On the other hand the action of these days were good for community building, everyone banded together. Today its very dull and boring.

Before i answer the second question, another thing: before we had the NAP which we have now, there were several other tries before that. The first time the Poles broke the treaty, the second time again (but i think this was a misunderstanding or lets say, the politicians of Poland had not the power to hold their german-hating people back, at those times there were many who hates us because of RL or something), the third time we had to pay much gold but nobody trusted the Poles because they broke the treaty before that, so there was much controversy. So you see, it needed a LONG time till this now stable NAP.

Freiheitskaempfer:
Hostile relationship before, we were always afraid of not having presidential & congressional elections (both of it was cancelled back in the days) before we signed the treaty.

Doctorius:
Before the nap, the fate of eGermany was rather beeing wiped by Poland or trying to liberate. If we succeded liberating we got wiped again, and again. This got pointless soon and people startd to think about nap with ePoland 🙂

Which are in your opinion the biggest benefits of NAP for your country?

dead dreamer:
Well ofc that we have a congress. And also that we have a few ressources so that not everybody leaves the country. We are small and weak enough, we need every single player. And truth be tol😛 without the union with denmark I personally think we would be a LOT weaker. You see, since the first days of the NAP, we gained more regions from the poles, if I remember correctly, we had just one originally german region then, now 4.

Freiheitskaempfer:
The biggest benefits are the save elections, people can build up their own economy, get some political medals and have a country to live in.

Doctorius:
The biggest benefit is that new players aren't apalled by a non existing Germany from the beginning. We experienced that in this case more new players quited istantly, so that you'll have a huge impact on your citizen numbers in the long run. And of course its also nice to live in at least one own region as an established player :3

Were the German citizens generally in favour of signing such an agreement with Poland?

dead dreamer:
Like I said in the first answer: no. But also yes. Because there were voices like "We would give up if we agree to a NAP and one never gives up" but also voices like "yeah but we would have a congress and a market etc". Generally speaking, most of the people did not agree to pay the Poles gold for our own regions, or if so, not that much, because in the past it was more like renting our own regions from them. But over time it was ok. Today there are still a few people who constantly want RWs and to fight everyone in it, but they are not taken seriously, because everyone knows we wouldnt stand a chance and if the whole nation would fight against the Poles, say goodbye to the NAP and hello wipe.

Freiheitskaempfer:
Most people were sick of the everlasting fight against poland, being wiped, liberating ourselves, being wiped, liberating ourselves and so on. That's why most citizens were in favor of the treaty.

Doctorius:
There were many critics from the beginning, today the got less. Some people say that ePoland enslaved us but thats totall bullshit. We don't pay one cc for this nap and Poland would have all possibilities to force this. So today the majority of eGermans get along with this nap very well 🙂

POLAND

How would you describe the traditional (pre-NAP) relations between Germany and Poland?

Takelbery:
Before the treaty with eGER history between ePoland and eGermany was stormy. In addition negative influence had our hostile past in RL. However with the time ePoland made international position stronger, and (what is not remembered) uprised and took back her regions. With time we started to delete them. Anyways constant fights exhausted both countries plus didn’t bring anything fresh. Euphoria from common fights has passed, and routine took over the battlefield. I can say that in this time the treaty appeared that was normalizing our relations.

MisziPL:
Firstly about our relations before NAP, it's kinda obvious because of RL history and relations so our society as a target had two options Russia or Germany, we chose Germany because of that and the fact that in 2008 we were under their occupation so the relations wasn't very good.

Sir Marvin:
Our relations were, due to our RL relations, pretty much hostile. Also, in the very beginning of eRepublik we were fully conquered by Germany for some time. After that, we had some baby booms and became a world class empire, so we could easily take our revenge. Germany is one of our neighbours, so they have been our primary target a few times. Anyway, let's move back to the last Poland-Germany war - the one in April 2012. Earlier, Poland's asses have been kicked quite hard and we moved to our core regions only. In search for resources, we started and won a war against Germany. We didn't needed a permanent RW drain though, so NAP was absolutely a logical choice.

Which are in your opinion the biggest benefits of NAP for your country?

Takelbery:
The treaty between ePoland and eGermany exists without a break since May 2012. I think it is bringing benefits for both sides, otherwise it wouldnt last that long. Thanks to this deal ePL is enjoying 10/10 bonuses for many months. In the other hand eGermany are is holding regions and have a guarantee that rest of their cores can’t be attacked by stronger neighbour. This treaty shows that force may means nothing. It is possible that with good will we can deal a compromise which will satisfy both sides.

MisziPL:
The biggest benefits in my opinion is that we have calm situation on western border they don't attack us we don't attack them, we also have 1 less serious RW and secured route to bonuses so it was a good deal.

Sir Marvin:
First of all: no RW drain. Germany is awesome as for fulfilling the NAP assumptions. They never broke it (I don't count the accidents where other countries fought for Germany just to piss us off). Secondly, we have our resources safe - if we lost our control over one of the regions, we regain it immediately - that happened once and Germany again didn't make any problem.

Were the Polish citizens generally in favour of signing such an agreement with Germany?

Takelbery:
Like with every single deal, on the beginning we took it with skepticism. We were wondering if it pass the trial of time. Now many people for our government worked for make this deal working. Very important in this is informing the society that shows the benefits from signing/prolonging the deal and also for possible negative effects of breaking it.

MisziPL:
They could have some doubts at the beginning but as we see there is no serious problems since that deal works for almost year and half. As long as it is a win-win thing there are no serious problems.

Sir Marvin:
I think it was pretty much a normal reaction - some people were cool with that, they saw the purpose of signing it, other, instead of looking from a bigger perspective, just yelled "omg, omg, everything but not Germany" bullshit. Anyway, the NAP was finally signed and that was a great decision. We're happy with 10/10 for almost 1,5 year and Germany's congress was never threatened. After such a long time with signed NAP, almost everybody are in favour of having it. No wonder - it just works perfectly.


Hvala za pozornost,

FilthyMind,
Ministrska predsednica/pomočnica Ministra za zunanje zadeve




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