[UKGov]UK Today #7 - All this Forum Hubbub
Day 1,795, 14:30
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Published in United Kingdom 
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by
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by eUK Home Office
Hello and welcome to the next edition of UK Today, the less popular supplement to the seemingly popular “Guide to…” articles! Today I’ll be talking about the latest hubbub to do with the forums and how TUP are secretly running things like something out of the Da Vinci Code. But before I begin, a thank you to those who responded to the PMs I sent out, it took a lot of my time but I think it was worth it having received around 400 replies! That’s not far off the number of people who vote and should give a great indication of the most active parties, Military Units, Levels, Ages, Ranks and Strength. That article will be out tomorrow afternoon and I hope it proves interesting to a lot of people!
As some of you are aware, and I’m sure many people are not, there’s a little debate going on between those who want to continue the 4 year tradition of using the forums in its current form and those who do not. It’s rather an odd situation, in that while we’ve had people before disagree with “role playing” and having certain rules and punishments within the forums. Nothing has changed from it, despite claims of the majority being opposed to this role playing. And I think it’s easy to see why that may be the case. eRepublik centres around 3 modules, the Military, the Economy and the Politics. In order to participate in the political module you have to role play to some degree, you may have been elected as a congressman doesn’t mean you’re a congressman after all. It requires a degree of ‘artistic licence’; it’s the same with being President, Party President, and Minister. Outside of the political module you have all this alliances. Alliances aren’t built into eRepublik, they’re extraneous things that are based around the fact you can MPP in game, just as how the eUK ‘laws’ are extraneous things based around the fact you can be elected to congress. Yet nobody complains that there are alliances and post articles about how we should remove alliances and only play as it is.
Now there’s a new movement who claim they’re the majority. These people are upset about more than roleplaying; they’re opposed to the forum almost in its entirety and claim that it is controlled by TUP. They’ve even gone so far as to create a new rival forum which you can find by clicking here. Those eagle eyed readers will notice that so far it only has 30 posts and 17 users. Admittedly it’s only been around since the 16th so no one should be surprised it doesn’t exactly match the 830903 that the current forums hold, but the people who oppose the forums and how it is managed claim that they’re the majority. One would expect that if so many people agreed, they’d have left too. Now, far be it for me to say that the forums are perfect, but they’ve been how they are since 2008 and every Country President and every minister has been a registered user. There’s also this whole thing about being controlled by TUP which is ridiculous, the person who owns the forums and decides who becomes admins is in ESO for a start. It shouldn’t surprise you that those who say it is run by TUP are yet to put forward a decent argument as to why this is the case. Until that day I think it’s fair to draw a line under these accusations as accusations of newer players who really just think things are unfair because they don’t see new players in positions of power and determine that the only possible reason is because of one big conspiracy. While not an uncommon accusation to make in the real world, it is one entirely based on fallacy that happens to target TUP because they are the biggest party at the moment and seemingly hold the most positions. This shouldn’t be surprising; having the most members you’d imagine they have the most active players and therefore are more likely to have the most well suited people for the job.
You're free to use either forum, but don't tell the rest of us what we should use. But what do I know? I just an ESOer.
As I said a few articles ago, the NHS relies on donations from the public to keep going, so if you have an amount of food clogging up your inventory space, or you’d just like to help support new players, then you can donate to BlueandEvil, no matter how much or how little we’ll be very grateful for it!
If you're new and want some free food and money then give Mr Woldy's latest article a read! Inside contains all the details of how to get your hands on some free stuff.
If you missed the last article and want to know about the forums and how to use IRC, you can do so by reading the latest Encyclopædia Britannica article by clicking right here.
We still have another 7 articles to release before the end of the month and if you know anything about the subjects, we want your help!
The subjects yet to be published are:
- The Economy Module
- Top 5 Parties of the eUK, Past and Present
- Militaries of the eUK
- Past Governments and Structures
- Military Units of the eUK
- Library Project/Tutorials
- And lastly; Countries of the eWorld.
If you have any information about any of the above then feel free to PM me! Also, I'm looking to make some new logos and update some images if there's anyone out there who's any good at photoshop, PM me if you have the time to, too
😃
To read the latest updates about the country over the last couple of days, you can read an article from the CP himself by clicking here
Thanks for reading, and good luck!
Betafoxtrot
Minister of Education
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Comments
Hopefully the comments don't turn into a flame war.
we heart forums
Voted.
Each one is free to use a forum or not. However a forum is quite useful.
You might want some more paragraphs, and to mention the hypocrisy of saying we shouldn't use non-erep websites from... a non erep website:
http://www.new-era-4.me/
http://www.thebritishbulldogs.info
... and others
o/
wow, wall of text.
I was going to say something like "YEAH ESO", but then I read about you not wanting a flame war.
'the person who owns the forums and decides who becomes admins is in ESO for a start'
Was he not a TUP member when he brought the forums?
Actually, it is probably true to suggest that the majority of players who use the forums aren't happy with the way it is being run, but the forum has been used for so long that it is ingrained into the constitution (so to speak). Since the TUP members wouldn't us an alternative site then trying to force government business to a different site would flop.
For 3-4 years, even when the UKRP was an equal to the TUP, there has been the feeling of bias in favour of the TUP and the way the mods...
@Wayne, no, PCP actually iirc
... disciplines is unbalanced. Stating that this view "is ridiculous" is not a counter argument. Nor is the "we're not bias and you are anti-TUP" counter argument.
People have cited examples in the past of where they thought non-TUP members were treated harshly when a TUP member was guilty of similar things but these have been dismissed as "properly investigated and in line with the guidelines and the punishments were fair".
It is hard to provide concrete, and absolute examples...
... when it is a judgement call based on various degrees of "bad behaviour". In many ways, I suppose you could call the bias on the basis that the mods give their fellow TUP colleagues the benefit of the doubt for things but political antagonism casts doubt on everyone else.
The allegence of the forum owner is slightly irrelevant as I believe he rarely actively mods?
I doubt this will be solved as the TUP Mods are happy to dismiss any concerns as anti-TUP jealousy.
Same old rubbish, werent you the Beta who was taking flak for aligning ESO with TUP before an election even before a poll for members had eneded...or was it showing private ESO info to TUP...cant remember but someone will. I fondly remember you as the racist : )
And please show us where we claim to be the majority? Forum users are a minority of the eUK citizens who play and thats a fact...can you go an hour without lying Beta?
I wonder if you can go an hour without criticizing someone Hugh! There seems to be a culture of destruction at the moment, where a culture of construction would be much more beneficial for all.
Your criticising me for replying to an article criticising a segment of players in the game?
Hmmmm oh and there are blatant lies in that article
Now now Mr Knee, this is Talon the great who had to apologise for insulting people at a multi party gathering at the weekend...very constructive : (
It is technically correct to say that the majority disagree with the TUP since the TUP only got 28% of the vote. The majority of congressmen who vote on things are not members of the TUP.
And for shame for using an official Government article to make personal points.
No Mr Knee, I mean genuinely looking for solutions instead of resorting to attacks. People always seem surprised that I'll engage with anyone genuinely being constructive, but it's true. I absolutely don't need everyone to agree with me, nor want them to- diversity enriches us all. If people don't like my policies it would be very nice if they'd help me to improve them though; unfortunately that seldom seems to be the case.
This is Talon that did apologize Hugh, all you seem to do is attack and that most certainly is a shame.
A secondary forum will never work Splitting the eUK into 2/3/4 forums would do more damage than good.If you think the Uk forum is "biased" and "run by elitists" then join it! and set up seperate threads.
"And for shame for using an official Government article to make personal points"
x2
🙂
Should this really be in an official Government article Talon? Isnt this a guide and yet it has personal comments and attacks on a certain section of the eUK community.
Talon: There is massive two "paragraph" rant attacking half the community in this article, maybe you can denounce that destructive attacking Talon. Or maybe Beta spewing racist language at members of community is more serious?
Piran: We tried that. We even got a private moderator free forum set up. They locked the threads and closed the private forum.
"And for shame for using an official Government article to make personal points"
x3
''This is Talon that did apologize Hugh, all you seem to do is attack and that most certainly is a shame. ''
Its hard not to defend yourself when official Government guides are taking pot shots at you, how is this constructive when your ministers are flaming an already hot situation. Please do not just make out that one side is attacking the other when it is both sides who are guilty of it.
I think promoting a positive message is very much a government point, but thanks for your interest. As for this article; it's asking people to look at the reality of the situation. I think a government, a country and a citizenry without its head in the clouds or pushing a very partisan agenda is a good thing.
It does take two to tango Hugh, that's always been the case. There seems to be an appetite for competition on both sides- the message I'm trying to hit home is that the competition should enrich the country, not seek to destroy segments of it.
How is it positive when it is fueling the flames? You cant say that things need to be more constructive then have Government Guides having attacks on segments of the eUK community. That is surely not constructive?
Where the hell did I spew racist language at someone, you're getting more ridiculous O_o and what makes you think that any of the stuff mentioned in the article is personal as opposed to genuinely bad for Home Affairs?
Also Hugh, no this isn't a guide, otherwise the title would be "Guide To...".
Surely debate is needed in order to be constructive. We have segments of the community that obviously don't agree- and some that would like an 80/20 article / forum split for debate- so you call it fanning the flames, I call it giving the people what they asked for and attempting to be constructive.
Beta even asked for no flame war, and I maintain that constructive comments are much needed.
So why are our comments not constructive? Surely Beta...sorry this Government article adds nothing constructive just negative. How can you call for constructive talks then applaud a destructive personal attack in a Government article published inbetween guides which makes it appear impartial.
Lmao...and come on Talon. You are an intelligent man. If i posted a comment here about moderators...forums...etc etc but at the end said...'I dont want a flame war' you would say I am being constructive? Of course not. You would add I was being destructive, you cant have it both ways by saying we are always being negative whilst being negative yourselves.
Hugh - this is a home affairs news letter thats letting people know the current TOP news in the eUK todate.
I dont see how that is wrong. Now if they used a foreign affairs paper or MOD paper then you would have a case. But this is a home affairs news letter talking about Home affairs
Unfortunately I see little more than attacks, and the occasional policy that seems unacceptable to a large portion of the country. I'm not really talking about words when I ask for you to be constructive; words are wind after all. I'd prefer for you to volunteer for something- like Ayame's MoH for example. Get down and dirty and help struggling players, and full credit to Beta for doing exactly that by the way.
Yeah, I just see a lot of attacks in general, and not a lot of help.
Also beta just for your information, i never received a PM off you
We that arent even part of TUP are being lumped into the TUP conspiracy maybe there is a very good reason the old school are against Goku regardless of party.
Maybe it is because we know Goku is not to be trusted and will only hurt the euk or maybe we are all secretly TUP supporters even when i don't follow politics most of the time.
I didn't PM people I knew were active : P I was actually going to mention that in the first paragraph but I forgot >_
Old arguments are boring arguments.
Play the game as you see fit. Win a congress majority, that will be how congress play style is dictated.
This is the in game debate you wanted, normally this would be on the forums, where it could be combined with previous arguments on the topic and not need to be replayed a million times.
danie, in the forums they would have banned, THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE!
Talon, you are the negative, Carlini is doing now an excellent job as MoF, putting into work factories, you were an (experienced?) MoFA and you never did that, why? You were just expecting to be CP, or you wanted to dismantle BEF? or just wanted a weak BigAnt term? You are the one that is destructive, and that wants submission and obeyance "a la TUP" and you call it "unity". Unity, yes, but of all the parties to substitute this low form of elite we have now.
I didn't PM people I knew were active - Beta
How come I got a PM then?
Talon Karrde Day wrote:
"As for this article; it's asking people to look at the reality of the situation. "
where "reality" is your own opinion (and those in the TUP) and not the reality that everyone else is complaining that they are experiencing. As I said above, merely stating that everyone else is wrong is not an argument. There may not be a deliberate policy to discriminate, but there does seem to be a subconsious one.
@Hugh, because I didn't necessarily know you were around then. NWG however I see on IRC a lot. I had no need to PM people I absolutely knew were active because I had 2000 PMs to send.
Beta is going to release an article about how his favorite parties are super active and ones he doesn't like are inactive. I'd like to know what type of sampling he is using for his census because it doesn't sound mathematically valid and is likely to be biased.
GCSE Maths Beta.
Offer him some maths lessons Goku! That's your true calling in life after all.
You get ignored Mr Knee when you make vaild points, you'll get used to it eventually : )
In fairness to Beta I think he's tried to stick to facts in his article but the feeling of persecution already amongsth the very vocal minority meant this article was bound to spark another flame war.
He's commented that TUP don't own the forum & the failure of the break away forum to attract minimal activity.
He's tried to highlight some of the work he's doing & pointed out that the forums have been around for a lot longer than many of the players complaining about them.
I think the most important thing here is who amongsth this very vocal opposition who supposedly have eUK's best interests at heart and want to wrestle jobs & responsibility away from "the elitists" are going to take Talon up on his job off and put their time to good use?
Or are you just here to complain that you don't get a chance & everything is so unfair?
And you don't actually wan to take any responsibility and do anything constructive?