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Dublin Communes with National Conventions on IRC should serve as direct democracy. Just my 2c.

To get a bit Bhanist here, we should attempt to have as much of the political process in the game as possible. IRC is not attended by the majority of eIrish even today.

It's really not hard to join IRC, just 2 clicks and you're there. It's real time debating which means fastest decision making. But sure, some should stay in the game too.

Hard to have a Dublin Commune without Dublin.

We need Bulgaria for our protection 🙂

While it may not feel great to have other colours on our little island, without Bulgaria helping us we would be very much open for more attacks on our other territories.

The current agreement where they are standing on our coast as a shield is much more beneficial for us than just having those two regions under our flag.

you need bulgaria here for the upcoming resource wars. if you even wait a day deciding on a NE you will be f*d. besides the fact that you have no kookaroos.

Good suggestions but the 24 hours might not even be possible. When I was dictator other friendly countries would propose MPP without contacting anyone that the were going to do it. When I would see them there could be 18 hours left. You are forced to decide to violate a rule and vote yes or pissing off a friend and not voting for it. I did not vote for one at first and got a bunch of nasty pm from leaders and regularl citizens of that country. Latter I voted for one and paid for it myself and got an article in our country how I was violating constitution. Americans in RL are rules followers, Irish in real life have shades of grey and use common sense. I haves lived in both countries in RL and have found this from dealing with unions, the government, to the local swimming pool. We need to be more Irish in this game and use the rules as guidelines and apply common sense to them. My thoughts.

Constitution and rules shouldn't be applied to many things, it just make it harder which means it's pretty holding us back.

A Constitution should be accommodating, but should exist to cover as many topics as possible. The document may hold us back from being too hasty, but if written correctly can generate a strong and effective government that protects the rights of the people while permitting responsiveness.

Moo is right, American governance is designed around holding things up in as much red tape as possible, but a Constitution doesn't have to be that way. We can be flexible when and where it counts, but discarding the contract should never be tolerable.

I have a RL background in organizational management, designing systems for the governance of entities ranging from 20 to 300 people, we aren't talking about emulating RL politics, we are talking about an agreed upon set of guidelines and expectations so that everyone gets a chance at participation, which Executive Oligarchy does not really permit.

the very best years e-Ireland had in this game we had absolutely no constitution and it went from strength to strength kicking the ass of nations 20 times it's size. Both constitutions we have had caused nothing but malaise and stagnancy. It just doesn't work and the past has already proven this. Stop flogging the skeleton of the dead horse please.

you shouldnt have a constitution only a set of guidelines. each successive government deciding on the fly what is applicable and what not. but yes atm congress is just a name for people with no power according to the game mechanics. mpp is mostly problematic. therefore if there is a congress they should vote on broadstroke proposals for example the mofa could outline his foreign affairs roadmap for the month same with mof . so congress approve the broad plan.

I would generally agree, and that is actually the spirit that much of this is coming from, thus permitting early closure of discussions and so forth.

🙂

Come back to IA 😃

I wrote the constition we have now then spent three months trying to keep to the rules when I was dictator, which was hard. The next government claimed they were going to rewrite it every month for four months in a row, and never did. It is easy to say we need rules, it is hard documenting sensible ones in a game. If you asked me 8 months ago I would of agreed with you on this issue, last few months expierance has changed my mind.

I can understand that Moo, but the current membership of the IFP is not keen to accept a complete suspension of the contract. Also, the failure of the last administration to complete Reform has little to do with our proposals, we are critical of the inability to progress on that front and think it is a large reason why reactionary movements have been so successful. We are publicly airing what we find to be clear and effective reform, not the vague idea of reform, we are putting our ideas out there in the hopes tat some if not all of them will gain traction.

Past year at least it's been life under a constitution and congress.
Past four months it's been promises of constitutional reform.
Nation went inactive, soldiers left, we were wiped.

We are trying something new as what we saw was broken. I feel right now it's a bit late to be calling for all of this reform on a system viewed as broken and fundamentally flawed. There was so much opportunity to do it in the past, let us have our turn.

Many in the IFP were not around for that period either. We are asking that the nation stop "taking turns" and instead let everyone sit at the table.

We tried sitting at your table, but quite frankly, you keep some awful company in that chamber. Those ppl refuse to work with us, so we continue to work and just ignore them because they are meaningless.

you can choose to work with whichever side you like, but you will never unite us.

Well... I guess since everyone is throwing their voice out there I might as well do the same.

The reforms to congress you have proposed are well thought out, and much needed. They would certainly drastically reduce the time congress takes to actually accomplish anything, and would increase it's productivity and overall effectiveness.

HOWEVER:

That is something that the old congress needed. The old congress also needed more active people in it, and yet there were barely any there. The only actual discussions that happened was when Sluagh, Trito and me opposed the collective ILP happy space, and actually proposed some changes.
That is the only time congress was active - When it had to stop someones attempt at changing and fixing things.
Now, it is completely possible that I just ran into a bad part of it. That my timing for joining it was just bad luck. But that is the only vision of the congress that I so far have - an institution made solely so that some people have a place to shut down the idea of progress.

If you want a place where new players can engage in the game on some higher level, it already exists! They can write articles to create more activity, they can apply to be ministers of organisations, they can run for positions of power (Not many people seem to be willing to do that, only Cat Boyd opposed Nogin in the last dictator election).

One of the main reasons you keep mentioning is that you want congress so that new players can feel like they are making a difference. Ronisu, I am still a new player, and I have to keep asking what the hell all the abbreviations mean every other day. I have been playing games all my life and I have still to understand how most of this stuff works.
Only with very smart and dedicated leadership should I hold a position of power, because there is still so much of this game that I need to learn about. A congress avoids that, and lets everyone play along to some magical democracy.

But you see, now the party in charge, which happens to be yours, but could be anyone elses, can simply shut down negotiation on any topic they will. Rather than what you allege, which I wasn't there so I can't judge, which was the ILP shutting down people in Congress, the current Administration dissolves Congress and the "Executive" decides which ideas get shut down at will. The IFP historically has a policy of letting new faces in Congress every term, and we will continue to fight until the centralized bureaucracy let's their voices and the voices of the rest of eIreland be heard. A single election does not entitle anyone, whether that be the ILP or Sluagh, to shut down the conversation.

People can look down their noses as political module players or role players, but this is our game too and we deserve to be as much apart of the conversation, not excluded from it or even let in selectively. Regional governments are coming, we had best cultivate our political module players as much as we setup a Boot Camp, exactly to avoid what you describe, being in the dark about lingo and phrases and policies.

But I wasn't saying that you should be shut down. In fact I advocate for precisely the opposite, just not through the lens of congress.

There are so many ways people can get involved, and yet somehow there are still places where the government could use more people. It is not that the current administration is not letting people get involved, people don't want to do the jobs that require too much effort.
The IA could always use more suppliers (Not people that will provide the resources but instead people that will distribute them and keep track of it). The applications for that have so far been close to non-existent.
We still don't have anyone that is willing to write entertaining articles for everyone to enjoy on a semi-daily basis. You don't even need to apply for that, you just do it and yet nothing.

I am as much of a role player as the next guy. I am extremely glad that I got a chance to actually help with fixing this place, but I did it not by going into congress behind a party and arguing over things I barely understood, but instead I did it by finding people that seem knowledgeable about the game, and people that I wouldn't mind working with (Sluagh and Sweet, I think I owe you both a drink for actually still being patient with me).

I don't understand why you are so opposed to having people with knowledge and understanding in charge.
When you are playing chess you are aiming to think more moves ahead than your opponent. Why are you advocating to have new players that in overwhelming majority only think 1-2 steps ahead lead the country, instead of people that look 8-9?

I am asking you as a fellow player to please at least try this system. It's not hard to be a part of the government, and I am almost completely sure that if you try it you would see that it's not as evil and bad as you might think.

Unfortunately, I have been part of a centralized Government in eRepublik, I didn't like the taste, 🙂. And I agree with appointing experienced people to work alongside inexperienced people, which is exactly why I appointed Sweet to lead the Ministry of Finance, but to train up a deputy (in a past life). That deputy would eventually leave the game, but not before stopping one of the large thefts in eIrish history.

The Government has made no effort to approach the IFP about candidates or for help recruiting people. If the Dictator would like to support elected Cabinet members from each party, I could get behind that, however I somehow doubt that would be in the cards.

I would also point out that the IFP and (yes) the ILP are full of experienced players in the political module as well as the military and economic modules. I remember when the political module was more advanced and each representative had to campaign, I used to swing the IFP getting ~25% of the seats with only 15% of the population, but that was long ago and a far more arcane political module.

Congress still remains the best cross-section of the community afforded us by game mechanics, though my administration did rule with numerous referendums on big issues, though that method is even slower than Congress, 🙂

"But you see, now the party in charge, which happens to be yours,"
dammit Ron... we are not a 'Party'. stop thinking every road leads back to national politics...

we are a social-military team who expressly do not care about national politics. we also represent the vast majority of eIreland's national defense and are the only serious investors in eIreland's infrastructure.

why do you get a voice in how we invest our dmg or time Ron?

That is exclusionary logic, logic that isn't even supported by other members of the Government, Sweet. EA won the elections, they are the party in charge, next time it might be someone else, it is the way these things work.

Additionally, using your own logic, why do you get a say in how we play Congress? We are one community, that is why, we can either keep building walls or try to work together, which seems to be in both the rhetoric of the IFP and EA.

Regardless, we are amenable to a great deal of Congressional Reform, but ultimately there are things in this country that Congress does well. We can disagree on the size and scope of those things, but the tool afforded us by Game Mechanics should not be squandered or ignored.

"the tool afforded us by Game Mechanics should not be squandered or ignored."
there are 2 distinct toolsets to choose from now.

ronisu the new updates will allow you plenty of time for politics if only regional. so i suggest you realign your party with it. with online games one must swing with the punches. people are fed up with politicians not being able to realign the country to be a good military power. returning to that game and aliging ourselves into different camps will end all progress. people are here for the military game. as logical as no politics in sports no politics must be in warfare as well. we cannot wait for a congress to dilly dally for 24 hours on a critical mpp for example.

Our current position is a realignment to prepare for Regional Governments. We need to train up our citizens in the use of the Political Module, because it is coming back, 🙂.

I would like to point out that Dictators also have to dilly dally around for 24 hours on critical MPPs.

The dictatorship is here to prevent partisan or regional politics from hampering eIreland's ascension.

Perhaps regional government supersedes Dictatorial power, we don't know the scope yet whether it is at a subnational or supranational level.

regional governments do not supersede national control.
Dictatorships supersede national control.

the Dictatorship is here to prevent politics from hampering eIreland's ascension.

You assume that Admin will keep that playstyle, just as some of us assumed in v1 that they wouldn't turn this into a full-scale lifesim, but they still did in Rising. Many also supposed that the military module would never be more than a simple minigame that a minority played in our online government/economy sim, but that shifted over time. I am not surprised they are trying to revive the political module, this is e"Republik" not e"Dictatorz"

i have absolute faith in Erepublik Lab's commitment to their Subscribers.

Just a question Sweet: What happens if EA or Sluagh lose the next Congressional/CP Elections with votes in favor of a return to democracy? I'm just curious to know what happens at that point.

anyone who wishes to follow the highest voted candidate is free to do so.
anyone who does not wish to follow them is free to ignore them and keep doing what they want.

your compliance with the dictatorship supporters is voluntary.
is compliance with you mandatory?

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm wondering if someone campaigns on a return to democracy and is elected CP what the Dictator will do. A question I'm sure many are interested in hearing more about, but that may be better reserved for a Q&A or something along those lines.

what did your dictator do when someone won on a campaign of removing them?
do you expect our dictator to behave differently than yours?

Noggin wasn't "my dictator", she was Irelands.

And Sluagh has no policy to act different than Noggin it seems that this entire thing is moot and a charade.

'policy' is a statement of intent.
Sluagh most definitely had a different statement of intent than Nogin, however nog did act much more in accordance with Sluagh's policy than her own.

and if nogin was "Ireland's dictator" not yours,
does that mean that Sluagh is "Ireland's dictator", not mine?

Sluagh is Ireland's Dictator. That mess that some spout about "Oh they're not mine blah blah" is rubbish. I don't necessarily agree with Sluagh on some things, but I'm not going to downright say that he has no foot to stand on when it comes to his power (Both CP and Dictator).

However, I am more concerned that if this precedent is set, then it's just going to be a cycle every few months. If the next CP election someone ran on opposing the Dictatorship and returning to a Congressional/CP democracy, doe Sluagh acknowledge that or not? Do we wade through another Civil War or do we leave the Sluagh/Noggin precedent behind?

It's all speculative, though. It has not yet occurred, so I can only hope that Sluagh, if the opposition won, to listen to the votes as he pushed for when the votes were in his own favor.

you don't feel the former dictator seizing control of the government and absconding to another country with the National Reserve set the precedent?
is that because she was a member of your political group?

so because Noggin did it, it is going to be fine for Sluagh to do it? Then what's the difference between them. I don't feel like accepting this as the norm is the correct way to move forward. If anything, it's a very convoluted way to move forward

Also, Noggin wasn't part of my political group. I disagreed with her and her approach before well Sluagh was even elected CP.

http://prnt.sc/aw9wph
she was a member of your political group 2 months ago when ur party gave her a guaranteed congress position.

do you have any comment to make about one of your party members fleeing the nation with the National Reserve?
will it be:
"that's ok cuz..." or "that's not our fault cuz..."?

I sense we're going in a circle and the main point I'm trying to make is being ignored in favor of a blame game. Simple put: Does Sluagh believe that he can do things that were detrimental and childish towards Ireland (see Noggin) or does he practice what he preaches when it comes to "most votes = mandate". Personally, I don't see Sluagh as that type of person, but being Dictator and having it threatened to be taken out from under you can do devilish things to someone (see Noggin).

On her being a member and how deep she was involved in the party, I'm afraid you'll have to question Ron about that. As you see I'm but a fetus born just two months ago.

"I sense we're going in a circle"

idd Wiz. supporters of the Military Dictatorship consider conversations like this to have no real bearing on the game.

the amusingly long discussion threads that lead to no agreements like all ^that above us are just illustrations of why eIrish Democracy hasnt/wont succeed to military or economic players.

politicians are a subset of society, not the masters of it.

So what happens? Do we all just take turns at being Dictator? Does Sluagh do it until he gets bored and passes it onto a chosen successor? What's the future of this if I may ask?

eIreland is far too small for democracy to function properly, it's simple anthropology really. that's why this looks like Lord of the Flies around here. we're practicing simple teepee politics as befits a population under 400.

Sluagh isn't some Howard Hughes locked away in his office going crazy.
He is a member of a fairly large council selected to lead on the basis of the time/resources he was able to commit to our community. He accepts advice and even arguments like a real human being (as opposed to a politician) and is very open to others opinions. When he grows to weary from the demand of the role or someone else convinces us they have more to offer the community he will be replaced accordingly.

To me personally, it just feels as if the government is a private club.

I've been involved in more governments than i care to remember (because so many are best forgotten). There has never been a version of this game where congress was anything more than a disappointing shit-pile. The Executive has always been where the real action (work) takes place.
The Executive is eternally looking for new ppl to get involved (actually share the workload). This is true of the Dictatorship as well. However unlike the democracy, the dictatorship is not inherently gullible: we've no reason to accommodate ppl who are obviously working against us out of some political concern, because we are not a political concern.