[CP] Remove the Lure
Bhane
I was planning on proposing a bold financial policy revamp this term. I was waiting for the admin to finally return the second half of the robbery in 2012, but that has yet to happen. I countered every reason the admin gave to avoid his responsibility. He painted himself into a corner, and reached the point where he has no choice but to actually provide customer service. Rather than man-up and face facts, he lashed out with threats. He disregarded every fact he had previously acknowledged in the same ticket, and threatened me with a ban for "abusing the ticket system." I have made a new ticket, and it is still ignored over a week later. Seanan has made his big article on a massive state-funded commune system. I know the people who love socialist rhetoric are probably giddy at the thought. Seanan's article is a proposal for a new expansive government spending program, so I felt it was time to push the publish button on this article I had prepared.
Ever since RtK made it public how much has been saved in the bank orgs, mouths have been watering. People that love to spend other people's money have tried different tactics at getting to eIreland's nest egg. A few people have mailed me about "funding" this or that pet project, to start draining our wealth. I have seen multiple proposals (like RtK's idea) about new ideas to spend through the cash.
One thing I know about creating these systems where unearned money starts flowing through people's hands, is that it always leads to corruption. A supplier may overcharge their actual cost. A distributor may distribute a little extra to themselves and friends. An organizer may give in to nepotism, setting up buddies in the system, and disenfranchising other deserving patriots. A receiver may not use the supplies as intended, or even outright resell them for personal gain. At the time, these small bonuses are self-justified, considering how much the player feels they contributed to the nation. The player may be completely well-intention, using the extra benefit for "the good of the country." You know what they say; the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Those are just some examples, there are countless other opportunities for corruption to find a foothold in these systems. The larger it becomes, the more opportunities there are to bleed the system.
I don't believe for a moment that the people proposing the initial plans have nefarious intentions. Unfortunately, large systems get twisted from the inside, and most people aren't even aware of it happening. Before long, the various small leaks all add up to one big drain, funneling state money to the insiders. Most of these insiders won't even recognize it as corruption, as it is just part of the system that they are operating for the good of the country. It's easy to be blinded by one's own rhetoric.
I don't think we should create a system that needs massive funds gathered from the whole population, and would eventually be funneled to just those involved in the system. Ongoing expenses would have to be funded by the taxpayer money that is in the bank. The bulk of those moneys come from people not involved in communes. Communes hand out supplies, and thus all taxes on the value of the items are avoided. This means the ongoing system would be paid mostly by the people who do not receive the direct benefits.
I propose we get rid of the lure to corruption. We get rid of the nest egg. For years most communes have operated in a completely self-sufficient manner. I want to return to a very successful system we had in eIreland for over a year. Allow all the MUs to return to self-sufficiency. The can be responsible for their own communes, if they wish to operate one. The taxes should be kept at their minimal levels, I think the current 2/3/5% rates for work and VAT are plenty to fund a few key MPPs each month.
With the current bank balance, we would distribute that out to the active population. This should be weighted by how long they have been eIrish citizen's since long-time citizens have contributed more over time. Players with a month under their belt may get 1 share, while players for a year might get 4, and players with two years may get 6, and so on. The details are something we can work out after gathering a census. Players who choose to be members of communes can always voluntarily give their portion to their group. Just think of the massive infusion it would be to all the citizens, to get a chunk payment for investing in their profile of TGs or WaM companies. I definitely think one exception should be made, a stipend should be set aside for BootCamp, to help the new players.
We operated on this minimum-tax, no-bank-balance for over a year. During this time there were ZERO bank thefts, because there was no balance to steal. With no money flowing through the state, unscrupulous players did not seek office to gain access to the system (like SAWC did). There was no lure for corruption. We could be confident that players only sought office to serve the people of eIreland. We can return to this age of idealism in our politics, instead of factions fighting over a pot of gold.
Right now, we have to guard against any potential threats. We need to maintain super-trustworthy CPs, in order to avoid the next great robbery. A scoundrel will just take the money. A naive soul will be talked into allowing more people "access" to the bank for the sake of transparency, or to double-check/verify funds. As soon as more than one person has access, we are on the path to the next great theft.
If we get rid of the temptation of the bank, we can have some of the kinds of CPs that a few people have called for. The "for the lulz" CP that will airstrike a random country and start a rivalry, or charge blindly into a foe that will get us wiped. Some players consider irresponsible CPs to be more fun for the country. If there is no opportunity for a massive theft, then we can have an irresponsible CP, and only risk our reputation.
Now let the rabble rousing commence. The nation can consider my massive change, or Seanan's massive change, or someone else may make a viable option, or we can keep things the way they are. Right now the bank balance is a protected capital fund. It is used to fuel MM returns, and those moneys are spent on the IA subsidy. After a LOT of discussion and debate, the country may want to vote on a direction.
Thank you for your time,
Bhane
Comments
voted
What did I tell you about the admins. A bunch of self serving in-breads the lot of them. Truths or reason are as alien to them as honesty is to the saws of this world. Either side of the same coin. Admins are the enablers of thieves.
And sorry Bhane but this isn't a great new idea of yours. It's the old Bhane idea regularly rejected very time you bring it up. Here was I waiting for a grand new plan. Lol. #disappointed
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Hogwash
Your plan is one plan the Commune plan is another.
Saying its one or the other is a strawman
The right plan for eIreland might not be out there yet. ReplyVote 0
Fair 'nuf.
I'll look forward to other proposals of sweeping national change.
The fallacy "Strawman" was the wrong one , I should of used " False Dilemma"
Also known as a false dichotomy.
Bhane did mention "or someone else may make a viable option". Continuing as we have been is also an option.
Why did you delete your post above?
Because I took your advice, WHS.
If you keep sending tickets it will annoy them but they will eventually snap and give in.
Lol, not likely.
Aye it's quite unlikely they will but tickets do annoy and it's their job to check them.
In fairness Winston, it's not like he's a socialist, 'tis to be expected.
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I hate using my phone. I make so many typos
Yes as pointed out by Bhane "Seanan's Plan ' is just Krakken brilliance reworked and dumbed down.
You need to be clearer what exactly are you proposing. A here is 10 gold for each citizen. thats ok as soon after the whole of the ia would flock to actual self sufficient MU's
The problem you people have is that you see everything in terms of corruption. I am not a corrupt person and would not steal a penny from any position i held in government. you just need to cull the herd and appoint players that is honest and righteous. more krakkens therefore 😃
Winston is correct - its the same argument based on your same old prejudices, Bhane. Every single time.
You've weighed in previously on the Army communes, basically calling James Keiller a scoundrel for agreeing to operate a subsided commune - got put on your ass when it was shown how the only avenue for corruption was with the Minister of Finance.
And now this piece.. its a lashing of arms based on your twisted notions of this game - and thoroughly misrepresenting my proposal.
1) My proposal clearly stated NO INCREASE in subsidy - as MoF wouldn't be able too. My proposal would not incur any more cost than current. Your fallacy of greater cost to State is untrue, and incompetently ignoring that I stated that out right.
2) My proposal set a roadmap which aim was encouraging investment into the system - that means no pot gathering - that means investment spent on WRM costs or infrastructure upgrades. Doesn't mean player investing into the MoF's pot for MM gains.
And most importantly, my capacity criteria if reached at 100% would mean the proposed system would meet 10 Q7 tanks per worker without any State subsided - which the roadmap was set up putting emphasis on and encouraging that sort of target. Obviously, if that point were ever reached, would State continuing funding supply or something else - speculation, but my roadmap was to encourage communal sharing.
3) Taxes pay for MPPs. MoF's activities pay for government subsides. You want a system where MUs can fund themselves? Then sign on to my proposal. Irish MUs across the country are unable, at this stage, to support a basic supply of 10 Q7 tanks per day - my proposal in the rationale made it clear that's why I thought this system would encourage greater communal sharing.
Whilst we have a working asset in the MoF gaining profit from that dosh - using prop up our lack of infrastructure, until proposals like mine, improve the situation is a worthy use of funds.
My proposal advocates controlled growth in our military infrastructure by changing the way our military units operate - i.e. encourage communal cooperation. And it was AGAINST your peeved notion of my self interest in keeping the Army exclusively subsided - and I bet that sucks the wind outta you.
Your proposal advocates fed for yourselves. At this moment in time, I proposed the idea as I've noticed a weakness in our defence. Going into a New World of New Alliances, you want to expose that gap?
Bad timing. I proposed that thing to benefit the entire military population - it ticks boxes of anyone willing to use a commune. It be do-able with or without State subsidy, but thats the angle you want to hit it from.
When your 'fair market wages' start keeping solider supplied for wars you want won, I'll be willing to accept your dodgy ideology.
Til then, my objectivity in my proposal is pragmatic.
come on we know that if you got canned a large portion of the MU would follow you to a new MU with all of the structures and communes you build up included. i think bhane is referring to you specifically in his article as a person who keep his own wheels greased 😉
I am not referring to Seanan specifically. 😛
oh i see you stole 2 of my ideas and reworked it into your dribble plagiarist.
In the end Seanan the problem with your plans is you yourself Seanan. You have been promoting and building essentially your own private MU up using state funds and by stealing from the government.
If I ever went private, RTK, you'd hear about it.
Actually Pete Seeger died 2 days ago “It is better to have struggled and lost, than never to have struggled at all.”
- Pete Seeger in the film “Seeing Red”
PETE SEEGER: Realize that little things lead to bigger things. That’s what Seeds is all about. And this wonderful parable in the New Testament: the sower scatters seeds. Some seeds fall in the pathway and get stamped on, and they don’t grow. Some fall on the rocks, and they don’t grow. But some seeds fall on fallow ground, and they grow and multiply a thousand fold. Who knows where some good little thing that you’ve done may bring results years later that you never dreamed of?
— Interview, Democracy Now, May 4, 2009
Like I pointed out by helping young players to sow that first seed and generating in them a culture of sharing we will be stronger. The Economic Upliftment of Youngsters and mentorship of them.
I'm seeing arguments. I'm waiting for constructive comments. Not holding my breath while doing so...
Get rid of the country treasury. 100% agree. I would keep some in MU to use as CO in the future if we need it. With out the money as Bhane said we can only elect old hand politicians we can trust, lets start to elect some gosets that we are not afraid are going to rip us off. Tring to figure out who gets what is a disaster waiting to happen. Want to make it interesting give it to MU for distribution based on damage or political parties based on votes.
send all of eIreland's funds to me for safe keeping.
V+S
I don't see how a massive give away would be any beneficial. I appreciate that a big distribution and supply system could have some bad apples and waste some money but giving people money to do what they want will probably lead to even more waste with little long term gain...
Distributing the money would be a massive infusion into the personal infrastructure of all citizens. More importantly, it would get rid of that big greed-lure we have sitting in the bank.
And then all would return to normal within weeks as if the year I've spent scraping out something we can be proud of was all for none.
Surely we can come up with a better solution then "f*ck it, let's party".
Well hopefully the voters can elect people who wont abuse the power or cant get the password from AppleMan 🙂 , I don't see the allure of it personally, I don't even know how much is in this big bank.
Only a few of us do. That's the point so that it's kept out of the prying fingers of greedy players by keeping a low profile. The less we talk about it the better. The checks and balances remain in place as well.
Unfortunately Apple, there is a growing movement to call for more reckless CPs. If those players get their way, we aren't going to have a bank balance anymore, either way. At least getting rid of it in a controlled manner, will mean the money gets back to the people, rather than the pocket of one mega-thief.
actually after reading appleman's heart rendering "and then i will have to scrape for years again" speech i fully support this idea. Time for a party yepa yepa !
change the p[asswords Bhane lol that will get old apple to fall from the tree
Daniel, elected CPs are entitled to get the org passwords. If the former CP denies, Admins will give them to the elected CP .
Bhane , you're a respected , trustworthy player, but i don't understand why you're claiming to have moral superiority ?
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I'd like to have a drink, the State'll pay. Cheers!
" Unfortunately Apple, there is a growing movement to call for more reckless CPs. If those players get their way, we aren't going to have a bank balance anymore, either way. At least getting rid of it in a controlled manner, will mean the money gets back to the people, rather than the pocket of one mega-thief. "
hmmm, you're the only one who's nominated for the next elections so far o_O
...and he wants to blow the treasury on a big splurge/party. So maybe he has a point?
(Relax Bhane that was a joke)
You got a smile outta me there 🙂
Bhane has a split personality this month pinky is in charge 😃|
It's a grassroots movement in comment sections, at the moment Daghda. Your comrade, Grainne is a charismatic Hawk who greatly desires such a CP. If she influences enough others, we will start seeing those reckless, for-the-lulz candidates. There are plenty of supportive comments that could grow into a sentiment that will help an irresponsible candidate get into the CP seat. Then the bank will be at risk.
Bhane.
Please, take a seat ..
I'd like to give you the opportunity to rethink/recind this comment, as I feel it may have been made hastily, or perhaps a little eOver-emotionally.
In the event it was made genuinely, I'll be back later to give it the full reply it deserves.
/timer on.
I fully expect you to tear into me with insults, Grainne. I don't think for a moment you want a thief to be CP, or have any nefarious intentions when calling for a CP that will throw caution to the wind, and act with reckless abandon. With that kind of behavior comes inherent risks.
After getting us wiped, an en emotional CP might take the inevitable blowback personally. They may spiral into a 'take their ball and go home" depression, taking the bank balance with them. A reckless CP, may be naive enough to be convinced by advisors to allow someone new, access to the bank. Then we could have another sawc situation.
If you are going to try and convince the people to elect wild, aggressive, irresponsible, and dramatic CPs, then you need to be realistic about the risks that kind of fervor brings. You may just get exactly what you are asking for, a CP with balls(recklessness), and does not have act responsibly(you call it cowardice). If that's the kind of CP you still desire in eIreland, then I fully support you once the risk is removed. All we have to do is give everything that the people have built over the last year back to the people, and remove the bank balance, so it cannot be pocketed by a villain. Then we will safely be able to have all the aggressive CPs you want.
I'm actually trying to pave the way, so you can get what you want. 😛
Now feel free to insult me, all you want. I'm certainly used to it.
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Dafuq?
Bhane, (25x congress, 4x CP,) v me, (1 foreign congress in 5 yrs ) and suddenly I am a threat to your crown, the nation, the Central Bank and the ***ing GDP?
I've never supported the surrender of original eIrish regions.
I've never stood for election in eIrish politics.
I've never been near the bank.
I've never even considered half of the nonsense in your dark and distorted prose of paranoia above.
Take a rest buddy.
I've never insulted you, either.
I repeat:
"I don't think for a moment you want a thief to be CP, or have any nefarious intentions when calling for a CP that will throw caution to the wind, and act with reckless abandon"
I don't think you are a threat to the bank. I inherently trust you, and believe you to be a patriot of the highest caliber. The sentiment of your rallying cries can lead to the dangers to the bank I mentioned. That does not mean you pose the actual danger. I never said that, and I will never say that.
women, they be prisoners of their juices