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[CP Elections] Concrete Examples

Day 1,907, 12:58 Published in Belgium Egypt by A Vegan
This article got removed by eRepublik admin because of Vulgarity, yes really because it contained Vulgarity. lol I would like to know the definition of vulgarity according to eRep admin. As far as I can see this article contains 0,0000000000 (zero coma zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero) vulgarity (not even a 1 after all those zeros, just zero into infinity).
Anyway as I do think this article can be useful for eBe I am posting it again. I may not be CP but maybe our current CP can do something with the message.
.

Now you know where I am coming from (see here) and where I want to go (see here) I would like to offer some real, concrete cases to illustrate my priority list.



1. Inclusion! The forum was great when it was a means to create a community. More and more it has become a means to exclude some of our citizens. This should stop. To much power has been put to a forum that is in no way affiliated with eRepublik. People who have not been elected in game have gained to much power thru it and use it to take away basic citizens and congress rights. I do not wish to abolish the forum but it is clear something has gone wrong and this should be put straight asap.

2. Equality! All citizens should have an equal voice. Outside game (role playing) positions should NOT make someones voice more important. By bringing the game back IN GAME we can bring equality back.

3. Stopping eBullying! Currently eBe has become a haven for bullies. We all should do our best to stop this. When we see bullying we should react and not just stay quiet. Articles about bullying should be written. We should clearly state we do not wish this in eBe!

4. Freedom! eBe has lost its libertarian side. The SC was a great invention but has lost its original purpose. It goes to slow, is used and abused to fight feuds and has nothing to do with justice anymore. Lets keep it for fun but remove any legitimate power from it.

5. Communication!
Newspapers, newspapers and more newspapers!! The government (but also congress) should give the example and write much more newspaper articles. About each decision/discussion an article should be made. We can never have to many! A fund should be set up to help new citizens to create a newspaper. We want to hear from them!
French and Dutch articles should be welcomed and encouraged. The government should search for volunteers to translate all gov articles in dutch en french. (sorry I have not done this now but I placed my candidacy last minute and didn't have the time)

6. Economy! Wealthy citizens should not be rewarded for being wealthy. Expenses should go to those who are new not to those who are swimming in gold.

7. Openness! Congress should decide who they give a citizens pass. Not a person who got a position by role playing. Clearly we should fight against PTO attempts. But lets work on that when real PTO attempts happen and not accuse a congress member of PTOing when he does what is his legal right. If discussions about citizen passes need to be held, they should be held in the open IN GAME and all congress members should have an equal voice and vote on them.

8. More fun for everyone! Where have all those newspaper games gone to? Is their still a budget for them? By including everyone fun can only increase as well..

9. Active (training)wars! Do I need to say more? My MoD will be able to explain this in more detail.

10. Bring the spirit back in eBe. We are a community. We are eBelgians and that should bring us together instead of setting us against each other..
 

Comments

Nova.Navid
Nova.Navid Day 1,907, 13:03

Vote
\o/

JdlF
JdlF Day 1,907, 14:17

In fact you want the more open field for expression; which i could heavily support if there were amount of players like ePol or eUs or whatsoever. Sadly eBe can only differenciate itself by its community. Therefore the important and even only key point is to increase the community feeling. Now that i've said that for general purposes; i'll go a bit into some of your details:

Outside game does not exist. Roleplaying does not exist. What makes people voting for someone or so is personal investment and commitment. You do not have more or less power through that ... Let's be honest, nobody has real power out there. CM can vote and propose things but that's pretty all. CP maybe... But not more.

About freedom and SC: SC is related to the forum; as you don't want the forum i don't really get the point ... And it is a really low, low, low mean of threat. For example if someone make a loan and does not reimbourse the only penalty which can be applied is on forum ... So in a way, not using the forum would limit loans.

About economy, i strongly agree but this is mainly an eRep issue has even the national bank cannot play with golds. And it is quite linked with the previous issue: how to retrieve loans? The other solution could be pushing new players through youth programs but it's already the case and an increase is going to happen.

Opennes, again it goes with community. We need a strong community for not being eradicated. Therefore entry should be managed. But again, if you want to overcome community's will you still can enforce a citizen request.

About active tw, honestly eBe is too small to make a lot of them. Moreover more than one / 2 month is totaly useless even for getting bh medals or patriot ones. Moreover costs are quite high. But hey, it could be cool i agree.

On your last point i would say: a community needs something tangible. And eRep is not designed for that. Therefore i can only encourage everyone to participate on forum.

JdlF
JdlF Day 1,907, 14:23

And well, you speak bout not fighting each others but as far as i know most of political parties are friendly wth each other. In fact problems arise only with HOPE. We even welcome a "new user friendly party": Babyboom. In fact it is a bit HOPE versus ATO+ResBelgica+YesWeCan+Babyboom.

And it makes me quite sad that you don't try to work with eBe laws to change things and instead you often yell without any real program... Please make yourself a true position and make changes following rules. Not by isolating your party. The only thing you'll get is building walls around HOPE. Which is kind of sad.



But I think we are not that different as everyone want to focus on community. We should all seat around a table and talk about what we think is a community.


Regards (and voted).

A Vegan
A Vegan Day 1,907, 14:29

excuse me but HOPE has always wanted to work together with other parties. It is a few other parties (not at all the list you are giving, hope has good relationships with other parties), not really parties even but individuals who have made it impossible for others to work together with HOPE. If they do they are called PTOers. That is the bullying side of eBe that a few individuals substain.

As for a program I think HOPE has a much more clear program than any other party. It's just a shame that some feel so threatened by our views that they do everything what is possible to set everyone against us.

A Vegan
A Vegan Day 1,907, 14:43

And of course a few are making real important decisions. Or who do you think decides budget, the spending of eBe treasury. Now exactly that (what is the most tangible to all eBe citizens) is decided outside eRepublik on a forum that has no real affiliation with it. A forum that bans democratic elected congress members and creates role playing positions that indeed give those real power that effect each eBe citizen whether they visit the forum or not. That means that your voice counts less if you do not frequent the forum and counts more if you are a mod/admin/SC judge/etc at that forum.
That is just plain wrong! The forum should be about community building not about controlling eBe.

A Vegan
A Vegan Day 1,907, 14:49

The SC is a great example of how to destroy a democracy and a community as a whole. This role playing court has overstepped its boundaries on multiple occasions in the past. Where it banned democratic elected congress members from the forum with the result that these congress members couldn't take part in discussions and votes (also concerning treasury spending).
That is the big threat the SC stands for. But not the only. It also (actually more or less only) is used for bullying tactics, propaganda and slander campaigns. And none of these benefit community building.

Konrad Neumann
Konrad Neumann Day 1,907, 15:12

Excuse me, but I do not know what reality you live in but many of HOPE members including A Vegan is pronounced as a threat to eBE by the SC. The only banned person you talk of is that of PTOer Vincent Pain who is voted by the congress to be banned due to him trying to PTO eBE. You complain that people call HOPE a PTO party and while not all members are PTOers but Vincent Pain and yourself are considered as PTOers and a threat to eBE. You can complain about the SC but people know you are radical and sore. eBE has laws and a constitution. Your only reason you are against the SC is because you want to destroy the constitution and the rule of law as you failed to change it in a democratic way. All of this "move the community back in game nonsense" is because you cannot convince the people of your vision so you start some controversy and push for everything in game. It is always about power and something you strive hard to get but never did.

You complain about bullies and the real bullies are you, Vincent Pain and a few other PTOers. Breaking eBE laws and tradition voted and enforced democratically. You forcing your in game agenda to seize power for yourself etc are bulling the community. People can see past your nonsense and you are pissed. You are not really fooling anyone. You can say you are building eBE but you are destroying it. The game itself is limited and a community outside of the forum and IRC is dead. Please stop this nonsense as few are fooled by your lunacy.

A Vegan
A Vegan Day 1,907, 15:34

I would like to ask other members to stand up for these repeated instances of bullying. Konrad please give a link where the SC pronounces me as a threat to eBe. I really hope their is still enough decency in eBe in react to Konrad his slander and lies once and for good.

Konrad apposed to you I actually helped in building that constitution (or at least an older version). And if you would have been longer than a couple of months in eBe you would know a lot more congress members have been (temp) banned from the forum in the past.

I really hope some of you will stand up for this bullying cause it is becoming very sad indeed..

JdlF
JdlF Day 1,907, 15:54

Again your giving some specific examples A Vegan but you don't come with real ideas. You are freezing on some exceptions; and maybe you are right. But those are exceptions as SC is not very active...

As an example i'm not really active on forum and still i am the one having such a tangible impact to all eBe citizens (to quote you about eBe treasury). Therefore i don't think the forum is a must to go. Yes to debate of course. But even eRupublik is designed for external forum. As you can see with law proposals, eRepublik explicitely ask for an external debate adress. Therefore, yes, a forum is kind of a feature of eRepublik. As erupublik is designed to work with the help of those externals.

If you want to be taken seriously, stop complaining and start acting in another way.

Good luck

A Vegan
A Vegan Day 1,907, 16:08

The link on law proposals do not ask explicitly for an external link. It can just as well be a newspaper article In Game. But I do not say a forum can't give an extra value. I only say that a forum shouldn't increase the power of a certain citizen. A forum should be there for community building (I am all for that) but not for legislation and giving power. If you go to the eBe page you will not find a link to any forum what should show that according to eRepublik a country can not have an official forum (opposing that of parties who can have an official forum).

In what way should I act? Just leave it like it is? That a few individuals spread lies and slander about 20% of all party members just because they dislike 2 or 3 citizens? Are 27% of all congress members not taken serious because I should start acting in another way?

Really I wonder. Why should I not be allowed to bring a clear problem in eBe to the attention? Why has bullying become so natural and tolerated in eBe?

A Vegan
A Vegan Day 1,907, 16:14

Indeed SC is not very active but because of that, that what you call exceptions are not at all exceptions but a rule and a clear path the SC has taken (almost from when it was created). It also shows that the only reason of existence of the SC seems to be fighting pity fights and character assassination.
Btw only a very small part of this article is about the SC..

I am trying to explain my ideas by discussing specific examples. I think that makes it much clearer.

Stijn Puttemans
Stijn Puttemans Day 1,907, 16:42

None of the elected congressmen of HOPE are banned from our forum. We even opend up our forum for non registrated members...
The SC only ruling is about the forum, cause you're not using it. I don't understand your problem with the SC.

A Vegan
A Vegan Day 1,907, 16:51

Above you see Konrad using the SC to call me a thread to eBe. While the SC has actually never said that. It seems nobody cares the SC is abused to slander someone. So indeed the SC effects me directly even if I choose not to use the forum.

In my article 1 from the 10 points is about the SC but it seems all of you want to talk about that point. I don't mind but let my respond as well.
Actually I would prefer to talk more about the bullying and why everyone just lets it continue. Why this is happening even in an article that is about bullying (I would think my article is much more about bullying than about the SC) and NOBODY reacts to it..

boer jan
boer jan Day 1,907, 17:01

you are fighting for your rights and that is OK, how you do it that is something else.
Strange that a newborn party with almost only members younger than 2 months already have changed more than your party did in let's say...1 year. They are opening the forum, though, but they are almost there where they want, They are pushing more than one rule of the bench, and they have only 4 congressmen.
Think that this proofs that half of what you write is old news,
the bullying, your right there is to much of it, but that is still a leftover from the time that some members of your party started to use the wrong words, those moments are not forgotten yet.
And the SC, well I am one of those famous judges, and I do not understand why everybody claims that we ban so many people, most bans are coming from immigration, not from the SC,
The SC is there when something goes wrong and must listen to both sides, and we must stay neutral, pity that in most cases we rarely hear something from the defenders. on the other hand we do not have a lot of to do, maybe 1 case every 3 months?

Konrad Neumann
Konrad Neumann Day 1,907, 17:06

A Vegan, you did the crime and you should do the time. Your attitude sucks. You think you can do what you want ignoring the rules, norms, and traditions of the community. You are viewed as a threat due to your own doing. Do not blame others for misdeeds that you commit. Be responsible for your actions and stop BSing and act like you are some victim etc. You are no victim. HOPE is no victim. The community is not made at HOPE but at you and Vincent Pain and your misdeeds. Be a contributing part of community for once and stop destroying the eBE community. You really should do some self reflecting and look yourself in the mirror.

boer jan
boer jan Day 1,907, 17:08

Oh and I must disappoint you A Vegan, there was indeed a verdict where you were mentioned:

"Due to this article it is the believe that aVegan is currently working along with Vincent Pain.

Therefore, the Supreme Court decides that both persons could be suspected of a Political Take Over attempt although this judgment does not imply that they are guilty or actually preparing a Political Take Over."..........."This decision is therefore not in the scope of the Supreme Court but in the Scope of the Executive Branch."

SwaqqCoryn
SwaqqCoryn Day 1,907, 18:10

Nice article, once again. (voted of course)
I don't think a training war is possible but for the rest, I pretty much agree on everything els.

mEd de Leeuw
mEd de Leeuw Day 1,907, 18:31

I think everyone here should calm down.
As a reminder : it's a game.

@ aVegan : as you've seen, if you skip Konrad, most of the community actually like you. Your Idea as a CP were great and trust me, you have more support then it seems.
So be Patient, if you're keeping up with positive Idea, the community will give back

SwaqqCoryn
SwaqqCoryn Day 1,907, 18:33

I didnt force Muhezain to support you...
That being said, keep up the good work aVegan ^.^

Jofroi
Jofroi Day 1,907, 22:55

AS SwaqqCoryn says (excepted that in my case I really despite your association with former LCCers).

For all the other points:
1: Here we disagree, but that's mainly due to the immigration law I guess
2: I don't really understand how bringing things in game do bring equality?
3: I might be included in the bulliers so I'll pass this one I guess^^
4: Many people tried to abuse the system through the SC, but if we look at SC conclusions, it was barely ever abused (although it happened a couple of time, I'm not even sure), and certainly not recently. The only person that has been banned by the SC in 2012 was Shadowukcs because he stole the state, that's it.
5: There I agree totally ^^. However eBelgians lack of activity which is a problem, do you have any plan to solve this?
6: You want to reduce the BNA budget I guess? It makes sense
7: Congratulations, the immigration law just changed: http://www.erepbelgium.com/t8466-immigration-policy . Now there isn't any risk of ban anymore as long as you can wait 3 days .
8: Same than 5
9: Why not ^^ even if I think that TW is generally bad for the production bonuses, it's nice for the NE bonus .
10: Theoretically, why not, practically this is a hard path that requires to include everyone .

Beaverss Tribute to Raskol
Beaverss Tribute to Raskol Day 1,908, 07:02

v18

lin0leum
lin0leum Day 1,908, 07:04

tw is NOT generally bad for bonuses. tw is phucking bonuses for the bottom biacz in the case belgium does tw with gb and losing regions, while gb does have double regions for certain resources (moreover bordering with belgium)

http://www.erepbelgium.com/t8466-immigration-policy
good move for the start indeed /clap. notice and remember all the bullies and kulaks who voted NO ;o)

ps: enough of the same old kn bollocks. plx ignore his obsessions in rules and traditions. that person need hard medication seriously

Vincent Pain
Vincent Pain Day 1,908, 10:52

Voted

Jofroi
Jofroi Day 1,908, 14:34

eBElgium cannot win a single battle in a TW linoleum.

Kaad
Kaad Day 1,909, 07:16

1. Forums are opened to everyone but is more for the moment a fun side and support for congress work. But if you do wrong things, you could be exclude from the forums that's normal...
2. The eWorld as the real world can't perfect and equal, we are doing our best for that but will always try to show they have more importance...
3. Don't know anything about this but if there's, i'm agree
4. Another huge problem. Some people (and most of them from HOPE) abused of that. But people are free to join Vincent Pain MU to fight againt national allies or join an official MU to fight for national allies.
5. Good initative but as a small country, we don't have enough people to do more (maybe you?)
6. What do you consider healthy? The problem now is that with the very small salaries, not a lot of people can buy foods to fight as me. I'm sometimes blocked in a foreign country because it cost me more that 2 days salary without buying the food I need.
7. Who is a PTOs for you so? A eBulgarian? A pro-CoT person?
8. Political life in newspaper dominate the fun side of them. Funny article have less vote and are less see. But agree with you, fun should come more often
9. TW problem is MPP. We need to organise it one month before to do it profitable for state and citizen.
10. So would you like to play with the rest of the community? Me yes...

shadowukcs
shadowukcs Day 1,909, 11:46

The only PTO'er here is Konrad. A Congressman from an enemy Nation who managed to sneak into our forums to spy on us for enemies of CoT

Kaad
Kaad Day 1,909, 12:42

Konrad have no access to our forum...

 
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