[A Not So Level Headed Congressional Opinion...]
Day 477, 20:04
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Published in USA 
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by
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by Ian John Locke IV
[Paying fees to Atlantis]
So everyone here thinks that we should not pay the fees that we owe the other nations involved in the Atlantis treaty?
I have a couple questions though:
Why would we refuse to pay the fees?
Should the United Kingdom be punished for helping the Mexicans?
Was the Mexican War justified?
Should Uncle Sam be impeached?
I plan to answer these quite methodically in the rest of this article
i]Why would we refuse to pay the fees?[/i
Well we'd be following someone else's lead right? Spain and Romania both broke the 48 hour rule and did not pay anyone anything.
Yeah that's true but since when has America ever followed someone else's example? Why should we start now?
We have always struggled to be leaders both in real life and in game. If we say "Well they didn't pay so we shouldn't either and if you say we should pay you're STOOOPID" then we are being childish, foolish and most horrifying of all FOLLOWERS
Why should we just whine and whine and whine?
We should do what it is right not what we think is better for us. We have people out here saying that Atlantis is going to fail anyway so we should not pay the fine at all. Personally I've never been either a proponent or opponent of Atlantis, but you'll never hear me say a kind word about PEACE.
If Atlantis fails it is because the nations that make up the alliance fail to follow the rules of the treaty. Some believe we could stand on our own against an all-out attack from PEACE. I am no military expert, but I highly doubt that we would. If we don't have Atlantis on our side, we would be a rather easy target.
i]Should the UK be punished for helping the Mexicans?[/i
This is a very controversial issue.
The treaty says that any member nation of Atlantis can go to war provided the other nations are given 48 hours notice prior to the declaration of war. It also says that no fellow nation that is part of the alliance may come out against the war or support the opposite side. (Ok this is a bit ambiguous... in other words no member nation of Atlantis can support Mexico.)
Yeah, former President of the UK, Dishmcds, also a former American, came out against the Mexican War and moved there to help fight against the US, but that does not mean the UK is in violation. Individuals are free to hold their own opinions. To illustrate this point, if I felt more aligned with Indonesia (which I don't) I could move there and fight against Romania and the US would not be in violation of the treaty.
I have asked around thoroughly but no one seems to know if the UK government ever came out (overtly) against the Mexican War. If someone can give me evidence proving they did, I'd appreciate it.
Since I have no evidence (as of writing this article) that they didn't, we have no reason to punish them.
i]Was the Mexican War justified?[/i
Why wouldn't it be?
We had plenty of reasons for this war:
A) The Polish had performed a political take over (TO) in the Mexican Government
C) We were promised war games which could easily be performed with Resistance Wars in the conquered regions
D) et all
There are countless reasons why this war was justified. There's no denying, however, that we violated the 48 hour rule.
i]Should Uncle Sam be impeached?[/i
The simplest answer here: No.
Yes Citizen Dru said that if Uncle Sam paid the fines he would push for his impeachment. Good for Citizen Dru for sticking to his principles. /me pats Citizen Dru on the back
Sam has not led us wrong once. He made a mistake; yes that is undeniable. We all make mistakes. Why earlier this evening, I insulted Congressman richbrophy in the heat of an argument in which I was trying to lighten up. Unfortunately it ended up making the temperature in the topic raise to unruly proportions. I have already apologized once, but I'll do so again here.
Congressman brophy, I sincerely apologize for offending you.
PANEC was not Sam's bill. It was a COMPROMISE. Not a reason for impeachment.
He followed the treaty, we should be, in fact, congratulating him for acting like a responsible president should!
[Ok, Let's say you've convinced me, What about Atlantis?]
There is no doubt that Atlantis is weak, but not militarily. Reform is in Atlantis' future, whether all the nations like it or not. The particular article in the treaty about notification needs to be made specific. Former Secretary of State, Inwegen, suggested that it be reworded to say exactly how to notify the other countries to avoid future mistakes. I backed this at the time and continue to do so.
Quite honestly, there are 6 other nations in Atlantis (iirc) and sending 6 PMs is not a difficult task. Yes waiting 48 hours may be a joy killer, but if that's what the treaty says, then we should abide by it.
Instead of being the arrogant children that the world seems to think we are, let us be the face of reform. Let us be the mature ones here. Let us MOVE HEAVEN AND EARTH and reform this treaty to make it as strong as iron!
(Also let's make sure our wimminz are worth more than 0.35 USD
So everyone here thinks that we should not pay the fees that we owe the other nations involved in the Atlantis treaty?
I have a couple questions though:
Why would we refuse to pay the fees?
Should the United Kingdom be punished for helping the Mexicans?
Was the Mexican War justified?
Should Uncle Sam be impeached?
I plan to answer these quite methodically in the rest of this article
i]Why would we refuse to pay the fees?[/i
Well we'd be following someone else's lead right? Spain and Romania both broke the 48 hour rule and did not pay anyone anything.
Yeah that's true but since when has America ever followed someone else's example? Why should we start now?
We have always struggled to be leaders both in real life and in game. If we say "Well they didn't pay so we shouldn't either and if you say we should pay you're STOOOPID" then we are being childish, foolish and most horrifying of all FOLLOWERS
Why should we just whine and whine and whine?
We should do what it is right not what we think is better for us. We have people out here saying that Atlantis is going to fail anyway so we should not pay the fine at all. Personally I've never been either a proponent or opponent of Atlantis, but you'll never hear me say a kind word about PEACE.
If Atlantis fails it is because the nations that make up the alliance fail to follow the rules of the treaty. Some believe we could stand on our own against an all-out attack from PEACE. I am no military expert, but I highly doubt that we would. If we don't have Atlantis on our side, we would be a rather easy target.
i]Should the UK be punished for helping the Mexicans?[/i
This is a very controversial issue.
The treaty says that any member nation of Atlantis can go to war provided the other nations are given 48 hours notice prior to the declaration of war. It also says that no fellow nation that is part of the alliance may come out against the war or support the opposite side. (Ok this is a bit ambiguous... in other words no member nation of Atlantis can support Mexico.)
Yeah, former President of the UK, Dishmcds, also a former American, came out against the Mexican War and moved there to help fight against the US, but that does not mean the UK is in violation. Individuals are free to hold their own opinions. To illustrate this point, if I felt more aligned with Indonesia (which I don't) I could move there and fight against Romania and the US would not be in violation of the treaty.
I have asked around thoroughly but no one seems to know if the UK government ever came out (overtly) against the Mexican War. If someone can give me evidence proving they did, I'd appreciate it.
Since I have no evidence (as of writing this article) that they didn't, we have no reason to punish them.
i]Was the Mexican War justified?[/i
Why wouldn't it be?
We had plenty of reasons for this war:
A) The Polish had performed a political take over (TO) in the Mexican Government
😎It was a way for PEACE to invade America from yet another front
C) We were promised war games which could easily be performed with Resistance Wars in the conquered regions
D) et all
There are countless reasons why this war was justified. There's no denying, however, that we violated the 48 hour rule.
i]Should Uncle Sam be impeached?[/i
The simplest answer here: No.
Yes Citizen Dru said that if Uncle Sam paid the fines he would push for his impeachment. Good for Citizen Dru for sticking to his principles. /me pats Citizen Dru on the back
Sam has not led us wrong once. He made a mistake; yes that is undeniable. We all make mistakes. Why earlier this evening, I insulted Congressman richbrophy in the heat of an argument in which I was trying to lighten up. Unfortunately it ended up making the temperature in the topic raise to unruly proportions. I have already apologized once, but I'll do so again here.
Congressman brophy, I sincerely apologize for offending you.
PANEC was not Sam's bill. It was a COMPROMISE. Not a reason for impeachment.
He followed the treaty, we should be, in fact, congratulating him for acting like a responsible president should!
[Ok, Let's say you've convinced me, What about Atlantis?]
There is no doubt that Atlantis is weak, but not militarily. Reform is in Atlantis' future, whether all the nations like it or not. The particular article in the treaty about notification needs to be made specific. Former Secretary of State, Inwegen, suggested that it be reworded to say exactly how to notify the other countries to avoid future mistakes. I backed this at the time and continue to do so.
Quite honestly, there are 6 other nations in Atlantis (iirc) and sending 6 PMs is not a difficult task. Yes waiting 48 hours may be a joy killer, but if that's what the treaty says, then we should abide by it.
Instead of being the arrogant children that the world seems to think we are, let us be the face of reform. Let us be the mature ones here. Let us MOVE HEAVEN AND EARTH and reform this treaty to make it as strong as iron!
(Also let's make sure our wimminz are worth more than 0.35 USD
😛)
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Comments
IJLIV! GREAT ARTICLE!
Sure we should pay the fees. We should also make Spain and Romania pay the fees. We should also have countries send the fees back in a sign of good will. We should also reformat the treaty.
But do you see any leadership forming coherent, long-term strategy on this subject? Nope.
Good job
this is great Ian
The uk did not support it, and sent no troops according to their MoFA I believe
Proggy, a person on IRC earlier today found somewhere that Spain and Romania are paying the fees that they owe as well.
I had not thought of receiving the fees back as signs of good will but you and I both know that the UK is hard up for gold so they will take whatever they can for whatever reason.
And you're right, there is no leadership forming any kind of strategy. I hope they see this and your comment.
Great article.
Interesting article, in that it swayed my opinion just a tad. I still think paying any fines at this time is a bit premature. We are in the middle of an epic war, and there are a ton of issues regarding that war that need to be sorted out.
chimichonga, you know I deeply respect your opinion. In fact you would know that better than most, but you must admit that
A) We violated the treaty
😎 Sam already paid
C) The war will be over soon, as sad as that is.
A) Agreed. However, we voilated the treaty because of the president's action. I did not even know about the 48 hour rule. He admits he knew and did it anyway.
😎 Yep. Water under the bridge.
C) I dont think it will be over soon. I think we've earned a little ass kicking because of our Mexican takeover attempt...
I do feel as though we went into Mexico to train, and to halt a political takeover with the idea that it was just for that purpose, not to conquer the entire country. Then it became a tit-for-tat against Indo for attacking Romania. It just seemed a little like we (congress) was fooled about why.
I agree with you ian, but why is it never "Sam" violated the treaty. Why is it always us. He was the only one who could give notice and the only one who could ask congress to declare war. Be should take a lot of the responsibility and use some of his own money and not all of our income taxes to pay this fine. Just a thought.
Hey dude, just read the post. While I have disagreements with some of your sentiments, we can discuss those in the forums. Just wanted to let you know, though, that I accept your apology. I apologize for the language I directed at you.
Let's let bygones be bygones.
@hokiehigh: You are right, Sam did violate the treaty, but who elected him? We did. I agree, some of it should be his money, and I bet he is rich enough to pay all the fees, but does that mean from now on Presidents who do so should do the same?
@Brophy, I agree. No need to apologize, I was over the line. I have an explanation for it, but it would take someone a long time to understand it, as well as some personal experience.
And yes, let us let bygones be bygones.
Since when wew congressmen level headed to begin with?
LoL. This was actually more level-headed than some of my eUS Forums posts...
The pictures help the Wall of Text. thanks for them 😛
lol MM you bstrd
Good. Voted.
Wonderful. Voted.
I like it (your argument) and agree.
Everyone complaining that "the rules are unfair" pretty much sounds like they don't like having to pay when other countries didn't have to do so, not so much the arbitrary terms of how many votes it takes to squash enforcing the fine.
Technically, by the terms, I'd say any country that violates the terms is liable for the fine, and if the vote goes favorably, the fine gets rescinded, and the money gets returned. But not paying the fine because other countries got the vote of confidence is plainly immature.
Bully for you for saying so.
Thank you BjornFree.
And I'm honored to have Justin, former POTUS, commenting positively on my article.
Great article. I wholeheartedly agree.
"Sam has not led us wrong once. He made a mistake; yes that is undeniable"
Led us wrong = made a mistake.
Untrue, Mr. Hume.
To "lead us wrong" means knowing all aspects of the outcome and pushing forward regardless. To "make a mistake" means taking a risk without knowing all consequences, and not because of ignorance either.
Great article, Ian. 🙂
It's nice to see more articles like this, coming out at a time like this.
Uncle Sam is a pretty good president. Now, we need some sort of official alliance system implemented into the game so there can be a more formal way of punishing, etc. Something like what United Nations can do with punishing countries and be able to have a overall authority to provide leadership within an alliance that's clear and effective.
IJL has a point... we elected a teenager as our president, so when he messes up a basic thing like adhering to the agreements of a treaty, it's really OUR fault.
Pay Fees? You kidding me? Why... there were articles about the upcoming campaign way in advance of 48 hours!
THIS IS BULL! The UK is doing this so they can break ATLANTIS and go to the new European Union... Look for something a new to show up...
Zagarius, there was no set way to notify anyone. We should pay the fees in good faith and to keep Atlantis together.
The UK already decided not to join the EU (supposedly).
And you know what... the treaty needs reform. Inwegen and a group of Congressmen, former and current, should lead a campaign for reform.
SCREW YOU!
I'm not just a Former American.
I'm a Former American President. The fact that I think you're all being very naive, and tried to warn you on several occasions should have meant more.
Unfortunately, you ignored it.
The fact that America took a stand and offered to pay the fine, even though it was not a very popular decision, basically shows that we are a country of our word and strength.
The fact that many citizens bow to foreign propaganda and cry impeachment every time they don't agree with their president or decide to move to another country shows that many of our citizens are weak. This is not having principles, it is being weak.
eUSA has a lot of problems but most of them can be overcome by showing some unity and faith. Take every opportunity to learn something. This so called fiasco gave us the opportunity to learn alot about our economy, our enemies and our economy.
We can be divisive and bitch and moan or we can learn and grow. It is up to all eUS citizens to make that choice.
That should have read our allies, our enemies and our economy...
"you and I both know that the UK is hard up for gold so they will take whatever they can for whatever reason."
Incorrect I believe talks to pay back the money are being had and we have recently agreed for new mpp's with Atlantis members