My Terms for Peace
Muglack
There's been a lot of talk recently about what our next move should be. Some people are advocating War Bonds that would drain what little there is left in treasury once we regain access to it, while others think the best course of action is the maintain the current status quo and hope that we become a large enough pain in the eUS's side that they throw us a few regions just to shut us up.
I however don't agree with either of these. The first option is ridiculous because even if we spend every penny we have there's no guarantee it will work. You're doing the RL equivalent of putting a sports bet on a credit card because you think it's a "sure thing", when everyone knows that there's no such thing.
The second option is more agreeable to me, but given the eUS's current stance it's a long shot at best. Many people who advocate this option point to the eSpanish invasion and say it worked with them, it'll work now. But that logic is also fundamentally flawed. The eSpanish wipe was a completely different beast. They kept us wiped as an afterthought. The eUS keeps us wiped as a point of propaganda and pride. But with propaganda and pride, we also find our opening.
The eUS wants to be recognized as the superious nation. I think it's clear to everyone based on how the war has been going that based on military might they most certainly are. This at the end of the day is not a hard pill to swallow.
So with all of this in mind, this is what I would put forward as my terms for peace.
1. eCanada would drop their Serbian MPP.
We're broke and can't afford to keep MPP's anyway. This is obviously a big one, but for the huge return of good will it would most certainly be worth it.
2. eCanada would publicly and officially accept it's share of the blame for the way things have gotten.
Clearly both sides aren't innocent in this. We got into a squabble, they thought they had an easy target, we ran to the next biggest bully, they thought we stabbed them in back, on and on it goes. At the end of the day we both did dirt, and we both need to move on.
3. All eCanadian regions must be returned EXCEPT Quebec and one food bonus region of the eUS's choosing with eCanada agreeing not to attempt their liberation, unless to clear influence bonuses. In exchange for these regions, the eUS will agree to give eCanada control of Alaska in order to normalize the weapon production bonus lost with Quebec becoming American.
Tax revenue would need to normalized one way or the other at a rate which can be decided on at a later date. (Weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly).
However, should Alaska be RW'ed and returned the eUS agrees to help return Quebec back to eCanadian control and pay a pre-decided amount of rent for their food region, or if they wish to continue to hold both agree to rental terms for two regions. Someone who's better with numbers would need to figure a fair rental value, that's simply not in my wheelhouse.
4. eCanada will remain in LETO, however a NAP and further more an agreement on our part to cease support of annoyance RWs will be offered.
With the Serbian MPP dropped, the eUS's biggest fears of a Serbian led proxy war will be allayed. The continuation of cooperation with long time allies should not be an issue, especially since we are making no requests or demands in regards to eAmerican foreign policy.
These 4 points cover nearly all of the eUS's "impossible demands" the last time we were presented with terms. Both countries are giving up a little, and leaving with a lot more. That is the ideal and the foundation that the Brolliance was built on, and something we should strive to get back.
I hope whoever gets elected on the 5th is able to take their pride out of it, and do what's best for this country, and their counterparts south of the 49th parallel are able to do the same.
Comments
>We will let a foriegn country that would have invaded us anyway if we stayed 'neutral' dictate our foriegn policy.
Whole lotta nope right now .
I don't know if you know this, but the fact that we aren't on the map, don't have tax revenue, and need to get all of our MPPs subsidized by the allies that want to sign them, they're pretty much dictating our foreign policy already.
No, they're restricting our MPP stack, but they're not dictating who our friends are. The Brolliance is dead, buried, and desecrated.
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TL😉R
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PS. ADD ME TO FRIENDS.
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I'm giving away gold*
That is shameful :/
I guess the cheezburgers need another MEKday to calm them down
Or you know, we could raise the work tax.
Dropping to 1% to "prevent" the eUS from profiting from us when they make over 80,000 CC / day anyway is pretty pointless.
Pointless to them but not to you. And instead of giving away your money to the enemy why not give it to me 🙂
The little extra income we would make on 3% work tax would barely impact the eUS, but would allow eCanada to actually sign MPPs.
Hardly pointless for us.
If you feel so vehemently about paying taxes, donate the money directly to the government instead of giving it away to the USA for no reason
I donate plenty, but I can't say the same about the rest of the player base. Therein lies the issue.
If we have no access to it so how does it benefit us.
Quisling is it now Muglack?
No offense, but your pet Xander calls me a PTO and I would never accept these terms. That does not mean I won't negotiate terms but these are ridiculous.
You did not need to bring my name into this, but since you di😛
1) you did try to PTO us.
2) I am no one's pet.
3) I cannot accept these terms either.
/me pats xander on head
"Down boy!"
jk Couldn't help myself.
You are a friend, Dill, but... anyone who tries to pat me on the head pulls back with a bloody stump where the hand used to be. Just sayin'.
jk = just kidding
So, assuming you're right, and DMV did try to PTO eCanada, what were you worried he might do? Drop the eSerbia MPP? Give eUS their pick of eCanadian territories? What exactly is/was everyone worried about?
The PTO I talk about is the attempt he made during the PP elections, two elections back, which everyone seems to have forgotten about. A rat is still a rat even if he puts on a man-costume - or, in this case, buys forgetfulness with his credit card.
I cannot say for sure what damage he intends to do to us as a nation, but when we all do find out, it will be too late to do anything to stop him. He's already making plans to dance around our constitution to pre-emptively spend treasury money (which he may never unlock) on wishes and dreams.
Again, I hope all of you people are right and I am wrong. I do not want to be right.
Again with the "PTO" ignorance. Every election where there are candidates with disparate opinions is a "PTO". When a candidate from an Independent party pulls an upset in an election, that is essentially a "Political Takeover" By the way, Takeover is 1 word, as such, the correct acronym should be "PT"... Anyhow.. Where was I - Oh, that's right. Elections.
Political Takeovers happen all the time. When an incumbent loses to a rival and that rival comes in and installs a new cabinet, changes law and policy, and fires his opponents, that's part of a democratic republic. If you don't like it, well, that's ok. So.. how do you charge DMV? Is he a criminal because he legally entered the country, legally joined a party, and has legally declared interest in running for an office? Denying him that right makes you the criminal, not him.
by the way, just so there's no confusion, I have no love for DMV. I have no hate for him either as he does not exist beyond his little avatar and contrived persona in this game - so please don't get any funny ideas that we are in cahoots. Id be saying the same thing to him if he were lobbing similar nonsense your direction.
I didn't invent the acronym.
It becomes a PTO when the un-sanctioned candidate brings in supporters who have been bribed or otherwise coerced into voting for the PTO'er, with the intention of causing harm to the party (or, in some cases, to the nation).
MDP had one official candidate - that is how we do things. DMV3 entered the party knowing (but evidently not understanding) the rules by which we operate, ran for the PP office un-sanctioned and on a platform of "reform" (in other words, violating the agreed-upon codes of the party in an attempt to dismantle its proper leadership), brought in his own people and bribed/coerced others into supporting him. Just because he was not successful in his attempt does not mean the attempt was not made.
If people want to turn this into an argument of "what goes around, comes around" or "justice" or the like, I should like to point out that the person DMV3 attempted to PTO has taken a firm stance against such actions in any party, and has actively worked to prevent it from happening. But, really, it's much simpler than that: two wrongs do not make a right. My objection is not a matter of partisanism.
DMV3 has a habit of ignoring the "spirit" of laws in favor of technicalities. Technically, nothing he did was in violation of any official game mechanic. He will tell us that this makes his claims legitimate, because the game mechanics allow for it and the party rules were not written by Plato. Bribery and PTOs are perfectly legal according to the terms of service. That does not make them ethical.
His current run for CP is legitimate. He is supported by a number of parties. My concern is not the legality of the process, but of what he will do should he win the election. He has proven himself to be unethical and lacking integrity.
Interesting, I will like to see how this plays out...
Kind sounds like self neutering? Why not fight on with RWs? Occupation only really two months in. Plus the great prize for the liberation is a Canada free to tear at it's own throat. War is good for Canada, stay the path.
Funny how the same people who advocated to keep fighting for many months of Spanish occupation seem to be the first ones who are now advocating for peace with the USA
because they were the opposition during the Spanish occupation, and now they are part of our government, who has no clue how to fix the current situation other than taking the path of least resistance - capitulation.
And yes, because they're fking hypocrites, too.
Alaska is asking for too much on the heel of this war.
'1. eCanada would drop their Serbian MPP.'
Really? Dropping the strongest country on your MPP stack to appease the country that has you wiped? And what, re-sign it at some point in the future when the eUS says its okay. And they're likely to do that when exactly...?
Why not just go the whole hog and base your campaign on leaving LETO and declaring neutrality?
Neither of these scenarios will happen! Canada will not let our enemies dictate our Foreign Policy
It is a fine thing to play "Devil's Advocate," but I do not believe Canada is ready to capitulate entirely just yet. There is room between the no-compromise hard-line and giving the enemy everything it demands.
'eCanada would drop their Serbian MPP.'
'eCanada would publicly and officially accept it's share of the blame for the way things have gotten.'
Since this all started awhile back when Canada NEed America, then to top it off Canada MPPed Serbia; maybe accepting total blame would be acceptable -besides I don't see where the Serbian MPP has done you any go.
'...eUS will agree to give eCanada control of Alaska ...'
Yeah, no, won't happen...
'eCanada will remain in LETO,..
Remaining in a pro Serbian alliance would be the same as keeping the Serbian MPP, again nope; won't happen.
From our perspective it all started when the eUS told us to F-off when we asked to join Sirius (after Spain and Poland said yes) because you saw cheap resource bonuses and were jealous Spain got them for so long while you guys had to do without.
There's blame on both sides. We both need to acknowledge that before we can move on.
But Spain and Poland never said "yes". Spain said talk to the US and Poland said "not interested". The decision to keep Canada out of Sirius is on the US.
'...back when Canada NEed America...'
See that is Canada's biggest fault, short sightedness, you're speaking of recent events; when actually the whole problem started back nearly 2 years ago when America's supposed "brother' decided to make us Natural Enemies. Believe a citizen name Code-Y could help you refresh your memory....
Speaking as a mere US citizen:
I think these terms, while not favorable enough, are a valid set of proposals and I would at least favor opening negotiations with Canada to see where they went.
That may seem like damning with faint praise, however, that is a big concession from me.
BTW, I like DMV despite our opposing views on many issues. But I think someone at least willing to start negotiations from a realist perspective is your best bet.
I think those terms are way over the top. My previous thoughts are still the only viable solution. The US leaves Canadian territory. Canada agrees to stop all aggression directly against the US. (No more RW's.) Canada agrees to continue refraining from directly attacking the US. After a month (or so) we can discuss the US renting Canadian regions at a fair price. After 6 months (or so) we can discuss dropping the Serb MPP.
It is unlikely at this point that Canada will ever leave LETO until there is another drastic shift in global allegiances.
> It is unlikely at this point that Canada will ever leave LETO until there is another drastic shift in global allegiances.
Then Canada will probably be doomed to a constant cycle (with ups and downs - but mostly ups) of occupation.
TDP: You really should know how to read damage statistics and understand how alliances work in this game. How do weak countries in opposing alliances near strong countries fair generally?
I, for one, would think a reasonable proposal for peace would address reality and should be considered by both sides.
But hey for me personally: TP medals are awesome. SO go on about your bad selves.
Why in the world would we just hand you back everything that we took? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of taking it?
AHAHAHAHAHA implying peace is desired :3
I'm sure I'm a team of 1 at this point.
A team of two actually
Make it 3.
Accepting "War Guilt". That always works with any peace terms dictated I am sure.
1. I will never advocate having a foreign power dictate our FA. This is why I, among others, have paid out of my own pocket for MPP's when needed.
2. I have already indicated to US representatives (since the beginning) that blame is shared. I never claimed we were lily white. Problem is the US wants us to shoulder all the blame. We may have caused this when IBB hit the NE button but we did not inflame the situation by denying Canada the opportunity to join the Spolish clique. Canada has yet to directly attack the US, only to RW. We are not the aggressor.
3. We already offered to rent them 2 regions of the US's choosing. They laughed at us.
4. Cessation of hostilities (stopping the RW's) was part of the offering that was mocked and rejected by them.
I have no problem with talking. I know almost everyone involved (and then some). I've been talking on the side in an unofficial capacity since this started. The official line is that the US government doesn't want to stop this. Rylde offered almost exactly what you suggest short of dropping the Serb MPP. Gnilraps refused even if we threw in the MPP drop. They demand much more than this. 1) We admit that LETO and Sirius are horrible allies. That we get no support from them whatsoever. 2) We drop ALL MPPs. 3) We have no alliance. 4) We can only fight whoever the US tells us to attack (in other words fight for them). 5) In return, in a couple months, if we are good kids, they might let us have a region or two so we can have a congress.
IMO that is f'in BS. If Canada ever gave into those demands I would be outta here so fast your head would spin. I dare say so would all but the most devout Canadian.
But you moved to Canada from the eUS...
By way of Switzerland, yes. The US dogma was boring. Swiss were too, how shall I say, uncooperative with change. At least Canada's got balls.
The Canadian government has continually tired to equate stupidity with gutsiness - they are not the same.
But the US has never done anything stupid...
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Be careful playing with words Oblige. I've been a member in US Congress. Some of the dumbest things I've ever heard were devised there. 😃
Oblige: 'But you moved to Canada from the eUS...'
So leaving America and taking up politics in an enemy country is wrong? Be careful here, cause a former President and current PP of the USWP did exactly that....
1 ) Remaining in LETO is the same as retaining the Serbian MPP.
2) Canada drops all MPPs with Serbian Allies, if that is all of them then it is all of them.
3) There are other Alliances.
4) America could care less where you fight so long as it isn't against America or our allies. Hell, fighting against Serbia and their allies would be a good start.
5) IMO, Canada will be lucky to get A region back; demanding America leave and then Canada will think of renting regions -no.
@Franlin, ty for noticing that I'm not the only one that ever left one eCountry to play in another. It's a freakin' game for pete's sake.
However what you say in your conditions is exactly why there is no point whatsoever in even talking. US will never budge and neither will Canada. Why? You answer your own question. We can either be wiped and fighting or we can be wiped, save a region or two, and have peace. A peace I might add where the US dictates every move we make. Personally I have no problem RW'ing the shit outta ya until Serbs get around to coming in through the open door. (I've heard the argument that the MPP is no good if we're wiped. Take's but one RW and what do you want to bet we could win that one?) Either that or you guys get busy elsewhere.
Sooner or later things will change again. I'm betting on later.