Join the new world

Voted for great truth.

inb4 serbs saying: "so much hate", "your just a xenophobe" or my favorite "we are all kiwis now".

so much hate.....

I'm awake

I love how when anybody from the Serbian party reply they either reply in one-liner comments such as "so much hate" or ignore all the evidence against (screwing us over repeatedly by ignoring congress procedures, openly admitting they want to turn us into their colony, forcing us into a pro-phx stance) them and reply in idealogical self-victimization format of "we just want to help, you guys hate us only because we are Serbian".

And that's not all they've done, they've done far more. Just some recent examples.

I'm awake x2

"Evidence"? Gaius, you have yet to cite any actual "evidence". Circumstantial, yes, but not actual evidence...

Ignoring Congressional procedures is practiced by non-Serbians, I heard a comment about "Little Canada", and we have an MPP with both France and Serbia and we are asked to assist them.

Give me some actual evidence, instead of wasting my time.

Adam Reese... Get the **** out.
Thank you (:

P.S and i doubt the canadians would ever try to PTO NZ. They make up about 10% of the population, tops. So please, stop making B.S statements of your own.

I think I'll stick around. I might even come back just to piss you off, Michal.

The point wasn't that Canada was going to do it. The point is, that they made a similar joke, and no one minded. But, when the Serbians said it, everyone loses their shit.

Of course the statement itself is BS, because the Serbian comment was just as much BS.

Adam Reese, you left the country, why do you still see the need to try and cause fights?
I'm pretty sure more people would like you if it wasn't so obvious that you only argue so that you look different.

As an eAussie who just got out of months of PTO best of luck because you will need it.

The only advice I can give is don't give up we lost most of our community because of what happened to us and it is hurting us now more then ever.

I don't mind not being liked, CQ. Being liked is inconsequential in this game outside of politics, and even then it's been proven time and time again that people are idiots that will vote for anyone that acts nice, only to have it bite them in the ass.

I am what you see. There is no pretend when it comes to how I act. Such open honesty is how everyone should express themselves. If you don't like what I have to say, then at least you know where I stand, instead of me trying to be some sort of sycophant that stabs you in the back when you have it turned.

Thi is hilarious. Especially when you refer to "the serbians" and "eNZ" as being mutually exclusive.

They have as much right as anyone else to be there and to govern. Enjoy your demoracy.

Eh, this is a bit excessive. I think I might start charting a list/spreadsheet of each Serb/Croat MP and track what people are saying and/or proposing. I'd rather treat people as individuals so I can identify the well-intentioned people and separate out the colonial types.

Tomazin- I'm sick of people playing that card. It's what they've done, not who they are. We gave and continue to give them the oppurtunity to join our forums, be apart of our community, and put their old pasts/allegiances behind. They choose not to. They choose to segregate themselves. Why do I only see a very small percentage of the serbian population contribute, and when they do it's almost always only in response to being called PTOers.

They choose to segregate themselves. They refer to themselves as Serbians, nobody is pushing that onto them.

I like your idea Spud. Any chance you could extend it to ALL MPs?

Adam: I made nearly a half-page long retort to you but I realized it was futile.

I can't possibly see how you haven't already seen any "evidence" yourself, others you must not be paying attention to the kiwi media anymore.

I could write an essay describing in detail what they've done (with links) but you would somehow manage to brush each and everyone aside as not being a big deal or something to that extent.

You cannot be debated with. I occassionally see fault in my logic or realize where I was wrong and even admit it sometimes. You are apparently not capable of that.


"Give me some actual evidence, instead of wasting my time."

Who do you think you are? If you expect a response from me to your comments then you are using MY time, I never asked you to respond to my statements.

I will discontinue this conversation.

This is getting pathetic. Can't you guys write articles that doesn't include ATO, PTO or Serbs? I mean we all got the point, you don't have to write 10 million articles on that subject.

Gaius, if you stopped calling them PTOers, perhaps they would stop distancing themselves from eNew Zealand. Perhaps that could help, hmm?

Also, you could provide evidence, but then I would be able to disprove it, so you'd rather not even try.

I expected a response from you, and I got it. You don't have to ask me to respond for me to respond. I respond when I feel like it, not when you dictate me to.

@Gaius Marcus: you are superb!

i hate to say, i told you (all of eNZ), i even wrote an article about resistance, and was deleted by some sub-admins with power

The best Joke in the comments is Adam Reese asking for evidence 🙂

Adam i am still waiting you proving your false accusations against me

voice, I've long stopped caring about that, and it has no relevancy to this issue. You're awfully defensive about it, though. I wonder why that is? Hmmmm....

Anyway, there is no PTO going on. Any evidence anyone brings up can be correlated to the actions of the non-eSerbians, so to say that we are PTO'ed means we have always been PTO'ed since the beginning.

Perhaps if the politicians weren't so incompetent, they wouldn't have lost so badly in the first place to the eSerbians.

vote.

As an eSouth African in the middle of a PTO, I support what you have to say and wish you the very best.

V&S

And I'm so stealing that graphic - I love it!

i did not spoke this time about PTO, but i am amazed at your demand of a proof

what constitutes a proof of a PTO in your opinion?

by which criteria we can tell if there is really a PTO or not?

There is no signs pointing to a PTO. The calls to protect our allies eSerbia and eFrance can be genuine, since we do have MPPS with them that were established before the eSerbians gained a majority of congress.

As for higher taxes and the like, these things were also voted yes by non-eSerbians, as the margin between "yes" and "no" votes prove that, if not a sign of inactivity amongst our congress members, then at least some non-eSerbians voted for these higher taxes.

In other words, there is no clear proof of a PTO, as in doing anything that our government already hasn't already done, and until there is, all everyone is doing is letting their bias dictate their actions by antagonizing the eSerbians simply because they were previously a citizen of a member nation of Phoenix.

'Bad' taxes exist in lots of countries, not proof of a PTO.
The French MPP was passed with a Serbian minority, and France has done lots of fighting which is all that matters. Having 2 Phoenix MPPs means nothing; Belgium (neutral) went from Russia and Serbia to the US in their MPP list, nobody has done anything about it, or even noticed really.
If the Serbs were a PTO, they would have transfered the country's accounts to a private org and put in 99% taxes on most stuff. Their new taxes are still much lighter than other countries. 'Your' old taxes were identical to those of the US.

To bad there isnt a civil revolt button we could push and we overthrow the serbs out of the country

Adam: you keep^saying there is no proof there is no evidence

what might be an evidence or a proof for you?
what are the signs and symptoms of a PTO?

I will play this game until I outlast the damn Serbs and we are no longer a 'Colony' of Serbia!

PTO or not, it's clear the reason they want to control our congress is to further the interests of Serbia and to a lesser extent, their best interests aren't in NZ, and even when they are, only when it's convenient for them.

PTO or not that's not the sort of people I want to see in our congress.

Everybody makes a big deal about proving whether they are a PTO or not? Does it really matter? They are hurting NZ and openly admit that NZ is 2nd on their list of priorities to Serbia.

They want to control NZ for it's strategic value: a crossing between South America and the entire Asian/Pacific region, and it's particularly cheap grain. Why does everybody think that a party has to raise taxes to 99 percent and empty the treasury or else it's not a PTO. Hey, maybe that IS the official definition of a PTO and this technically isn't a 'PTO'. But seriously does it matter, when considering the fact that if a congressmen isn't acting in the best interests of the nation he shouldn't be in congress?

I seriously think this whole: is it a PTO or not argument distracts from what's important. If this was any other situation, and the party simply was: breaking procedure rules constantly, blocking our donation proposals to the official treasury of NZ, forcing laws down our throat they know we don't want and hurts the people; simply to leverage something out of us, segregating themsleves from the rest of the community and forcing taxes that hurt the ecnonomy, wouldn't we still try to rally as many people as possible to vote them out of office and put people in congress friendly to our own policies?

Please consider that.

Jesus Christ, Gaius, you are one long-winded dude. Try to summarize yourself in a comments section, rather than type out an entire essay or something. Is that so hard to ask?

Besides, all I keep reading is very fickle reasons to dislike the eSerbians (they made their own party, when that's exactly what the party system is for, to join around a primary idea), things that could be easily ignored (they consider themselves eSerbians first, which doesn't matter at all in a virtual world), and other things that can't be pointed at as a PTO (they don't comment on the forums or IRC), but rather a change in direction of the government (slightly higher taxes that are still lower than most of the e-world).

If this is how you're going to debate, then you're going to bore people to death and they're just going to stop caring about eNew Zealand.

voice, the same proof that daniecox mentions.

on what basis that money transfer constitutes the only proof of a PTO

how do you define a PTO?

are you ready to PUBLICLY apologize and admit that they are PTO once they take money from eNZ?

voice, there are not a lot of ways for one to PTO a country. Money transfer is one of only a handful of things.

They could be enacting ridiculous laws, declaring war on nations right and left, calling for MPPs with several Phoenix nations, and transferring all money to eSerbian accounts.

I list only a few. None of these prerequisites have been met. All that has been done is rising taxes (well within acceptable standards, not to mention it was also voted into law by non-eSerbians), and calling for protection for our own MPP allies, eFrance (not a power player in Phoenix, not to mention had been a founding member of the neutral alliance Entente) and eSerbia. Both of these MPPs were made before the eSerbians gained majority, so you can't say that they are performing a PTO by asking for you to protect the nations you swore to.

Finally, if they do take money from eNZ, what good would my apology do? Would that actually do anything other than satisfy your morbid need for satisfaction? Do you actually think that would make anyone happy?

In other words, no, I wouldn't apologize. I don't believe in apologies, anyway. Before you ask why I don't, think about it for a second then do so.

so you are just imposing your ideas on what is a PTO.

why a PTO should be only what you have described? and not what Gaius and the others had described?

why your definition should be the right one and not theirs?


you do not need to answer, since you are clearly the type who refuse to admit his errors

What does not admitting my errors have to do with defining what a PTO is? You're a loony.

Gaius and the others' definition of a PTO is that "the government has changed direction, so let's blame the eSerbians". There are non-eSerbians that agreed with these measures mentioned, so the "blame" does not rest solely on them, so a PTO is not evident.

They are not taking over the government. I don't see any eSerbians enacting any laws or pushing anything that favors eSerbia explicitly and unfairly. The MPP with eSerbia occurred before they gained majority, so you cannot point to that.

Until that happens, all you're doing is causing unnecessary panic and alienation.

I did not see a definition, but from what they stated as "evidences", for them a PTO, is organized underground effort directed by foreign interest done by groups loyal to a foreign power, in the objective of serving that foreign power FIRST. There is no need that PTO actually harms the PToed country!

No one caused alienation of the serbs EXCEPT the serbs themselves. We opened our hearts and forums for them, we want them to integrate with us, that we all become kiwis, but they still call themselves eSerbs, they still put eSerbia before eNZ, they are still part of serbian militia, their congressmen are mainly unknowns and who do not communicate, they do not even try to integrate with the rest of us... (ofcourse there are few exceptions)

Oh, give me a break. "Opened your hearts to them"? "No one caused alienation except the serbs themselves"? When the first came here, you all called them PTOers and criticized every little thing they did, including not speaking English.

In your own words: "These serbians are here not to build a country but to ruin it, to steal its money, and worse to take its more valuable asset: Its Freedom

"As their role-model (Satan himself), the try to cheat people, in confusing the good and the evil, and in showing the bad under a good name by naming their party NZUP."

http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-election-open-letter-to-almost-everybody-in-erepublik-1553925/1/20

I never saw anything from you before concerning the eSerbians, including "opening your hearts and forums to them". You sure are an awful liar, aren't you?

Also, as I've said before, who cares what they say, when their actions proved they WEREN'T putting eSerbia before eNew Zealand? Or are you forgetting that they endorsed Calbe's candidacy?

The only things you can point to were that they discussed eSerbia and used eSerbia imagery. Yet I didn't notice any complaints by you in articles relating to EDEN or when there were articles written in Spanish.

As I've said before, why would they want to integrate with people that demonize them? I don't blame them for wanting to keep your people at arm's length, because you have paid them no respect at all.

Adam: Serbian got a position in every joint of the government, but what they did? they cribbled Calbe's govt, made MPPs behind his back... Did they try to integrate in the forum and we refused? no.. The ones who came to forum received a good welcoming.. did Mexicans seprated themselves and mlade a party and imorted lot of drones to win congress seats... look at the congress, from the 22+- serbian party candidates, only few, less than few who are active and known in eNZ or tried to communicate, the rest are just remote-controlled drones that automatically vote whatever their masters in Belgrade tell them to do!

Oh boy, you're really showing your ignorance here.

The MPP with eSerbia was made 21 days ago, which was before the eSerbians gained majority in congress, and the vote passed 21-1.
http://www.erepublik.com/en/New-Zealand/law/58472

The MPP with eFrance was made 10 days ago, requested by the president of eFrance and the vote passed 18-6. Obviously, this was before the eSerbians gained a solid majority, but even if it was made after the fact, they obviously haven't gained three times the number of seats that the non-eSerbians have.
http://www.erepublik.com/en/New-Zealand/law/59973

To summarize, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

in summary you avoid the core of the subject

lol, the core of the subject is negotiable.

You call it a PTO, yet the "proof" you provide is false and could be attributed to non-eSerbians.

Please explain to me what the "core" is, if not that.

no, i am questioning why your understanding of what is a PTO is better than that of Jamarcus and the others?

Why do you care?

well, if we gonna discuss if it is PTO or NOT, we need to know what is a PTO.

from what i see, they say it is a PTO based on their definition of a PTO, and you say it is not based on your own definition.

yet you continue to bash them, and want to impose your definition as if it is the absolute truth

in this case, we need to see hard and solid justification for why yours is the true and not theirs!

I don't see you asking them to prove their side over mine.

since you are the one who harass them.
They did not go to your articles imposing their ideas and harassing you for saying it is not a PTO

It's "harassment" to disagree with someone?

If anything, you're the one that's been harassing me by following me to every article and instigating an argument.

that is more than disagreement,

you are actually harassing everyone else!


as for me, i am not attacking you for having certain believes and ideas, i am just scrutinizing your argument

mpp with france is bad?is it better to not have a war at all?do you think that economy would run without wars?
and the other evidence of PTO which i have seen in most of similar articles is blaming serbs for posting articles on their native language.blame admins for that.
i think that your propaganda doesn`t lead anywhere,so stop it and cooperate.