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I was once hoping to mobilize two-clickers as well, but eventually I realized that being a two-clicker is a choice one makes. You can bash the forum (I must admit I rarely visit it myself these days), but even in-game the amount of votes for articles indicates that few eBelgians are interested in what's going on, except for the few active ones (who also chose to get out there and get involved).
As to democracy, eBelgium is among the easiest places in the e-world to get in Congress (if you consider the amount of candidates per seat and the amount of votes needed to be elected). So the way things are, I'm afraid referenda would bring little added value to our community, but maybe only extra risk, as people who are poorly informed (if at all) would get to influence the decission making (which still would have to be executed by the active members of the society).

I'm pessimistic, but still voted for a debate starter (;

You want to create referendums because you don't want to ask citizens to go to the forums, but you want them to go on a special webpage to vote ? What is the difference with the forum ?

You want to give befs for citizens who will vote, but you don't appreciate when citizens can request citizens packs on the forums (small club sharing money between forum users)...

You don't have to destroy what have been built to improve it... We are all working for the same goal : more active citizens and a stronger eBelgium !

Moreover, the CP barely send any mass pm.

I do think we could get a try in organizing a referendum to see if it wroks...
I would be for it as it was done in Ireland one week ago to vote.

I think BrunoCND is working on this...
Will it involve a lot of new players, not sure but it deserves a try 😉

Be carefull ! There are two different debates that are clearly different and that we canno’t mix up : the referundum idea, and the "forum or non-forum" debate. The proof is that referundum could technically be made on the forum, so these two debates are clearly different and implies different arguments. I personally do not have the same approach and opinion at all about these two discussions.
Aldous : as I said, it’s not the debate here, but please, once again, stop with your simplistic vision : "not on the forum = 2-clickers".

About the "referundum" in itself : I don’t have a clear opinion , I’m personnaly neither in favor or against the idea. I won’t fight to have one. But if there’s one, why not !

Thomas : I don’t like either the fact of paying to get more votes. About the people expressing their votes in a referundum, I want them to have an real opinion about it, and not just click by random (and falsify the results) just to get money.

True AVegan.... they will have even more chance to work iff we support them true our councils.

referendum is hard to make in game.

Jeiry, please be so kind to point out where I claimed that forum avoiders should be considered as two-clickers - I re-read my first post three times and still couldn't find that idea there (I even stipulated that I'm not really a forum user anymore either). A two-clicker is a person who just does his basic everyday clicks, avoiding active participation in community life, or in some cases even avoiding any interaction with other players.

I might have been vague in my formulation, but the point I wanted to make was simple - you can hold referenda on the forum, in in-game articles, or on some special webpage, but the realistic outcome will be that there will be little interest from those who weren't active and interested before (the two-clickers), and that those who will cast their vote and weren't active before will have a higher probability of being unaware of what's really going on in this country. I know I'm pessimistic, but that comes from past experiences.

Well, I reacted also because I had the feeling I already heard you saying something similar before, in another Newspaper's comment. But if I misunderstood your comments, sorry, I take back my own comment about it.

Anyone with the link can "vote." It is great if G50 have the link and push for open borders...

Referendums do not work in eRep...

If you can make eRep admins implement referenda as part of the game mechanics, it might be a usefull idea. For the rest, it's possible to integrate the active community and voice your opinions through shout, mass pm, articles and military units.

we can't have a control for that, anyone can participate, and the referendum will be wrong.

It looks like the word "referundum" in itself scares many people, or that you just want to ditch it by principles.

There are many different kinds of referundum possible : it can be mandatory (and, in theory, bind the Congress - I think it's this kind of referundum that scares you over here) , but it can also just be consultative (just as a population poll to inform the Congressmen and give them the "best picture possible" of population's toughts about a specific matter). Many other intermediate styles can also be imagined in between these two kinds of referundum (by creative people, not by "people that just don't want it, no matter what").

Nohjis : such "polls" would be much less effective by the means you propose (these means have to "promote" a referundum, but can hardly take its place - except maybe an official Newspapers if it's really well done and widely promoted).

Konrad : these kind of problems (G50 in your exemple) can be solved with a minimum of creativity. I don't say I have the solution (didn't even try to think about it), but I've been around creative internet communities for too long to know that these kind of issues can be solved easily if people really want it. Giving that argument is just ... well it's actually not an argument. Somebody objective would say "In case of referundum, you'll really have to pay attention to this and to fix it, otherwise you'll be in troubles", and not "it doesn't work because of this".

consultative referendum is a joke. it would have same level of effect as wim's quizmaster.
why anonymous voting? its a bit less transparent than publick vote.
where we do the referendum is of secondary importance. important is the will of citizens' majority to force the congress to listen to the people.

If you get a majority of citizens to participate, you'll be my hero for ever, lin0leum (no sarcasm, that would really be an awesome achievement). Otherwise we already have a way to force the Congress to listen to the people: Congress elections, where everyone gets to pick a person to represent his interests or even to become that person him-/herself 😛