Join the new world

Yes/No, yes to prevent the abuse of certain CM's no because this is the netherlands and not the UK 😃

This would be a non-isue if every one whould respect the diferent people eNL has

Besides the unfortunate situation with one person, I think the law makes sense in other regards (see my response). In fact, such a change does not (and should not) stop people from speaking whatever language they want.. We're still a nation in which an overwhelming majority speaks Dutch, after all.

Makes sense, it is a mere continuation of the de facto situation. All official correspondence by Government is already in English, as is the used language in Congress too. And in fact, despite being stated that ''all laws will be drawn up in Dutch and English'' that hasn't been done for several years.

We're still a Dutch nation though, and it shouldn't be frowned upon that in a more personal/informal setting Dutch will often be seen. But for official purposes, I think it is only amening the discrepancy between law and practice.

I fully support this proposal,

For me google translate is an unreliable source translation and it takes a major timewaste to find the correct translation. Foreign nationals myself are at a current disadvantage with the use of the language that has been constant abuse of it for which this childish person not only criticised the usage of it previously, suddenly hebhas changed his atitude to annoy the fuck out of others specially targeting a typical person 'Janty F.

There is nothing wrong using Dutch in unofficial purposes such as telegram, personal articles etc but in official terms government and congress it should be English based on the fact that there is a large non Dutch nationality that pays commitment to enerherlands such as me, Janty F and Fmcv

This is the eNetherlands the eDutch citizens should be allowed to use their own language. Also great examples all those countries mentioned use their native language instead of English.

I don't think anyone is denying that people should not be allowed to use their own language. It's a difference between 'official' communication and everything else. The first is already being done in English for years, by all parties across the board, from GPN to I&W. It is fixing a discrepancy between law and practice. That's also why bringing in odan in this discussion as some do is a diversion we shouldn't delve into, as the proposal in question does not target speaking any language if one wishes to do so on his own accord.

And to be honest, it is not a great example. These referred countries can count on numerous players and often VISAs or Mastercards. Our success has always been to counterbalance that by being an open and international society and it evidently pays off. The (e)Netherlands is one of the few countries that works in (for several reasons, including RL 100% English proficiency) and we should embrace that, not shun away from it.

But, if you want to insist on the argument: Give me one example of any official (government) article being published in Dutch in the last years (which has seen every party ruling). I'm afraid you are fighting something that is already the status quo and you yourself engage in. But now that it is being brought up, it suddenly serves a political agenda (?).

And don't get me wrong, I'm as ''Dutch'' as you 😉. And people have always been able to ask for help in Dutch and will receive a reply. But that is irrelevant to the proposal at hand and the practice in place.

Ridiculous proposal in my opinion. I prefer communicating in English so we can all contribute to eNL, but getting rid of the Dutch language at all is 100% against my personal values. We're still in eNetherlands, which is basically an online version of 'our' irl Netherlands.

By the way, I think this is a problem with just Odan, but are we really changing laws to obstruct one person? If someone thinks his contribution is relevant, he/she can use Google Translate.

Begs the question what we are getting rid of in the first place. Which is why I don't necessarily think we should even burn our fingers on this issue. Whether this proposal passes or not, the de facto situation already is English as official communication language.

It's the issue with such proposals in general. We are all convenient with speaking English all the time, but when it is actively ''promoted'' as ''removing'' Dutch we (naturally) feel uncomfortable.

And I agree with you that it would be petty to address this solely just because of one person.

The Constitution is ancient in general.. A change was ''accepted'' by 65% of Congress, but blocked by some people and it needed 2/3 majority. It would have resolved language issue simply like this:

Article 2 – Official Languages of the eNetherlands
1. The official languages of the eNetherlands are Dutch and English.
2. All laws will be drawn up in English.

Official correspondence/political language as English, but Dutch as 'recognized' natural language of NL as well.

I would support this addition to Article 2.

I would support this change as written to Article 2 too.

I would even suggest a provision that a Dutch translation of all published laws be provided. (But it can be translated after passage, so not a requirement during a debate or discussion stage)

I think the official use of English benefits non-native english speaking citizens more than either Dutch or native English speaking citizens. So while I absolutely agree with ftplus and would not want to remove Dutch from casual use or as a recognized natural language, I would prefer the English-speaking Portuguese et al be able to more fully participate and not be limited by language in any official capacity.

I don't see why there is a need for that, to be honest. For the last years, laws have not been translated in Dutch either. The current constitution even states that English laws are leading, anyway. Seems a lot of unnecessary work for no real gain, not to mention procedural struggles (who is checking the translation, words can be very easily interpreted differently etc). Governmental procedures are not translated in Dutch either (i.e. the Government Programs) and, as a very long past has shown, no one is interested in writing the same stuff twice - especially not in 2019.

I'd argue the official use of English benefits everyone. It'd be a lot less exciting here without you or the Portuguese guys or everyone else. But I still believe this discussion has been started referring to solely official communication. One could argue that is a bit abundant considering that is already the case, but we wouldn't want discrepant laws to our practice, I guess 😃

To put it more bluntly: Everyone can understand English, not everyone can understand Dutch. So I don't see why we need to ''promote'' the facilitation of the latter in official channels like the Government and Congress for no real reason, except feigning nationalism or something (which we sadly have seen recently, else this wouldn't even be brought up I think). Whether any change is accepted, I doubt it changes anything from how it has been going for a long time.

Case in point: Eight elected Congress Members, all dedicated citizens to the eNetherlands, are not fluent in Dutch. A significant part of our eCountry, some of which are determinant (e.g. our CP, CoC, people bringing damage like yourself and Fmcv in the air) to the success of our eCountry. Then it's irrational to feign we need to talk Dutch, when being 'international' is the prime reason for our existence and the status quo for almost a decade.

Add to that that no Dutch players in eRepublik are unable to speak English, as well as RL statistics of 95% of NL having basic knowledge in English. I'm undoubtedly more fluent and witty in Dutch too, but it is common-sense in this game. This all seems only to be a problem/issue when brought up for discussion, because besides that.. it all seems to work out fine 😃

I don't really mind either way- although as a rl Aussie-American I am only good with English (or Spanish), I think people should write in the language they're comfortable with. I'll work with google trans if necessary, or ask the author if still unsure. tbh I only bother with this when there's an article I think might be interesting- it's kind of relaxing to just skip over certain comments... 😃

Fun fact: ''Research states that between 90% and 93% of the Dutch population claims to be able to converse in English''. Let alone in an online-gaming environment.

I dare to say everyone is comfortable with writing English in the Netherlands. This is also evident by the fact that all communication and interaction we've all seen in the eNetherlands is in English. So given that, why make it unnecessarily hard for other people that are as ''eDutch'' as ourselves. This discussion only serves for quasi populist arguments and IMO is not salient at all because things seem to be working fine.

I think some of you missed a real meaning of this debate 😃
Its not about taking out Dutch from eNetherlads, but making English as only language used in gov/congress ( which is in fact used for a long time, so its just legislation of it ).
Of course dutch still could be used in articles, comments, talks etc etc.

As this is only triggered by the fact odan acts like a child over the past year or so and I donkt think we should make laws to forbid our native language I’d prefer something different;
After CoC elections are dobe the new CoC immediately starts a vote about the CM’s preferred debating language for the upcoming term. Choices are Dutch and English. After this vote is done the remainder of the term is done in the language chosen. This continues till the next language vote.
CM are bound to use this language and have the choice to add the other language as well. If they are not complying they are ignored and votes are not to be counted.

That is also a nice idea !

6. If no vote on the topic has been started after 168 hours, and 48 hours have passed since the last comment, the (Deputy) Chairman of Congress may choose to close the debate.

The debate has been closed.