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[Congress] Statement on Taxes

Dan 1,845, 18:22 Published in United Kingdom Francija s strani Madacaion


Due to the change in current congress communication methods I am writing my views in a statement form as the message is over the word count for a PM - as requested by Goku, current MoLA.

Hopefully, even if you are not in congress, you will find this interesting. It is however a WoT. Your congress members are getting paid to read it - so don't feel obliged to make it to the end if your losing the will to live.

Please avoid full on discussion in the comments - and as a note to congress could you please ensure all replies are within the correct PM thread as required.

This communication methodology is new and currently in its infancy - I, like the rest of congress, am trying to do what is best for the eUK and follow the rules and guidelines set out by the current ruling party as to congressional conduct.


1) Current Income

Tax is our primary income and by far the most stable (Carlini has the wonderful job of knowing just how stable so he can perhaps expand on this if required). We can use the MM to increase that figure by a percentage (could be 0, could be 40000%, no-one knows) of our tax income as such it is unstable and should be considered a secondary source of income.

Im sure even Carlini would be confident (90% probability or higher) that he could get 25% of tax income for the term from the MM (close to worst case senario) and the previous two terms we got around 80% and 50% respectfully <- Warning its late - these are remembered numbers - so they may well be wrong.

2) Current Spending

We currently earn less in taxes than we spend. If we had only 25% of tax income/term from the MM we would of been very close to break even. Very close.

3) Environmental factors

Currently the eRep summit is on - and there are some changes coming along. Is it wise to make any form of move when the future is so uncertain? Just because you've promised tax cuts doesnt mean it needs to be now. BA promised Q7's for the BEF before and faced a silly amount of scrutiny for implementing something that was in fact a bit silly. Please BA - don't make the same mistake twice!

However if even if you want to facilitate tax cuts we need to do either one or a mix of the below:

1) Spend less
2) Earn more in other areas (i.e. rebalance the tax)
3) Take a risk and believe that the MM will always give out more than 25%

That is the real question, and is more of a question of the cabinet rather than congress, as to which option they want to do. The proper financial stewardship of the eUK is something that I will tirelessly campaign for - as im sure most of my learned colleagues in the house would join me in such an endeavour - and anything that strays towards option 3 without carlini explicitly promising such (i.e. its 90%+ certain) would not be proper stewardship imho.

Come back to congress when you have worked out what you want to cut with your cabinet and tell us how much wiggle room you think we have. Your policy is that of making tax cuts - now you just have to work out what spending you're going to cut to facilitate that.

My personal opinion?

Don't do this, and by all that is still left in the eWorld dont do it before we even really know what changes the admins are going to make. If you're set on this path make your spending cuts before changing the tax levels. Work out in real terms how much extra that gives you - and use the extra money from that trial and research period to buy a tonne of food for the NHS.


~ Madacaion



Sir Humphrey Appleby
Sir Humphrey Appleby Dan 1,845, 18:34

Voted and supported.

lancer450 Dan 1,845, 18:35


WayneKerr Dan 1,845, 18:40

there's two threads up regarding taxes in the forums for people of that persuasion, in-game discussion is a good thing and every medium of communication should be used. It may be clumsy but that is game design rather then eUK governments fault. Goku has set it up in the easiest, less messy way he could.

Madacaion Dan 1,845, 18:46

Wayne - I'm not saying that its a bad system, simply trying to give a bit of context for anyone who stumbles across the article that it is a reply to a discussion thread and shouldn't be considered a full article in its own right.

I don't want to pick holes in the system and i'm doing what Goku asked us to do when the reply is over the word limit. I'm happy to follow the rules put in place by whichever is the ruling party - because how could anyone expect people to follow their rules when...

Madacaion Dan 1,845, 18:46

...they get into power if they won't bother their asses to follow the rules that were implemented before them?

WayneKerr Dan 1,845, 18:48

It's not a rule, it's a suggestion on a way around game mechanics.

BoatsandHoes Dan 1,845, 18:57

As a non congress member or forum user I really appreciate being able to see whats happening in our Government via the media, voted and appreciated

FragUK Dan 1,845, 19:51


WayneKerr Dan 1,845, 20:26

@BoatsandHoes, I imagine Goku will do an article regarding the discussion for the public to feast upon.

Bohemond4 Dan 1,845, 22:47

voted and supported!

Grampa Alfagrem
Grampa Alfagrem Dan 1,846, 00:46


Congressmembers airing their views to the 90% of us that don't use the forums.................win!

BigAnt Dan 1,846, 01:20

The public voted for these cuts when electing me.

We made 200k profit last month.

We are set to make another good month from MM if gold stays steady.

We are also making some cuts to CTA and MPP's

Can we afford these cuts of course we can, it will help our newer players and put cash back in the populations pocket.

Do we need a huge reserve? No we already have 2.4m and rising
Some people claim CTA must not be cut. But its proven older players tend to claim it.

I must stress....

BigAnt Dan 1,846, 01:23

That these are small cuts and will not affect our daily tax income that much. And even with these small cuts I would predict a month in the black still.

IN MY DEFENCE of upgrading to Q7 tanks.

Was it silly? No you are wrong at the time it was the perfect plan and I was told by the previous government (Keers) that we STILL were making £45k tax daily.

Now what is worrying is, that government seemed completely unaware at the fact our income had actually dropped to nearer 15k daily. So ....

BigAnt Dan 1,846, 01:26

Was that my fault or the previous government for completely missing the fact we were massively in debt.???

The facts are I had to deal with the Sh*tstorm back then left by a TUP government and that's exactly what I did. Now I make these cuts because we can and its the most sensible thing to do. New players need help and extra money these cuts provide that until we see what the admins have planned.

BigAnt Dan 1,846, 01:26

Finally however I must add I like this idea of congress publicly sharing policy terms within GAME.


Danie Fox
Danie Fox Dan 1,846, 02:44

"The public voted for these cuts when electing me."

No, the public vote for the cuts (or not) when voting for congress, you cannot propose tax changes and have 1 vote to our 40.

Danie Fox
Danie Fox Dan 1,846, 02:46

There is a lot more discussion on the thread, if we all published it in game it would take up a lot of articles. Not attacking this one, as it is the first one arguing this side of the debate, but it is not feasible that we all could all do it.

Grampa Alfagrem
Grampa Alfagrem Dan 1,846, 03:10

One UKIP worker pays £3.25 in income tax a day to the eUK exchequer.
One of BA's RN workers pays £2.5 a day
A private worker on £35 pays £1.75 a day

One worker in the 'national' army pays £0.005 a day (assuming its a UK company otherwise its 1.5PLN a day) same with other communes.

Perhaps encouraging other parties, MUs and 'national' armies to base themselves in the eUK and pay a fair share would instead be an avenue to explore?

Topher Fair
Topher Fair Dan 1,846, 03:11

This is great, just what I wanted!

Private debate in PMs gets too detailed and heated to it spills out into articles for the non congressmen to read and discuss. Now everyone is invovled; forum user, congressman or not 🙂

What I hope to see now are congressmen turning these discussions into proper articles, summing up the discussion and putting their own take and solutions on the problem in. This article is actually pretty good.

Topher Fair
Topher Fair Dan 1,846, 03:12

My only suggestion is use the Financial Buisness section for this topic as it is pretty much empty while Political Debates is full.

Grampa Alfagrem
Grampa Alfagrem Dan 1,846, 03:12

Why should those paying 500 to 650 times more then others (not to mention they have the ready cash to actually buy from markets and pay VAT) be held hostage by those that want MPP's, NHS, CTA and other such schemes without paying for them?

Topher Fair
Topher Fair Dan 1,846, 03:21

I'm not going to comment in the Congress PM because it's not my role - I'm not in Congress. I can here though!

A big thing to consider is what newbies get. Alot of them quit and the money on their account is lost. Some of them actually want to play but don't have the gold for a Training Grounds - especially if they have to use Gold to buy Weapons they don't actually need that much.

Topher Fair
Topher Fair Dan 1,846, 03:21

What extreme are we at? Too many quitting through not liking the game (so raise taxes) , or too many quitting through not having the gold to play (so drop taxes).

Grampa Alfagrem
Grampa Alfagrem Dan 1,846, 03:30

>"No, the public vote for the cuts (or not) when voting for congress, you cannot propose tax changes and have 1 vote to our 40."

Parties that backed him have 19 seats, Parties that opposed him have 16 (includes PCP).
Then ofc theres the fact he got a majority vote from the nation - 51.11%

All pretty much comes down to ESO (as usual)

Elvis Trout
Elvis Trout Dan 1,846, 03:50

I fully support this method of communicating, I use the forums, but this is more inclusive and convenient. I look forward to much more discussion being conducted this way.

Elvis Trout
Elvis Trout Dan 1,846, 03:51

I also agree about the taxes, make the cuts first and then see what you can decrease taxes to. Or you know, just don't make the cuts.

Carlini8 Dan 1,846, 05:23

"Perhaps encouraging other parties, MUs and 'national' armies to base themselves in the eUK and pay a fair share would instead be an avenue to explore?"

We all know you are smart. Why do you make comments like this just to score points? We both know that the eUK gains more with communes based in Poland than it would if we were to move back to the eUK.

Sexagenarian Dan 1,846, 06:07

Looks like sour grapes to me. - We didn't win so we will put every obstacle in the way

Quoting from TUP info " here to improve the UK, and make a just society for all"
Blocking the policies of the elected CP is an improvement?
Just society for who? not the majority that voted for tax cuts certainly

Grampa Alfagrem
Grampa Alfagrem Dan 1,846, 07:26

Well let's explore it Carlini rather then argue about 'cheap' points.

My so called "Kill URKP till they are dead" scheme (we'll use max capacity for easy work tho its only at 80% right now so adjust accordingly if you wish)

100 workers @ £65 each means £325 daily, £10,075 for January to the exchequer in Income tax @5%

It rewards workers with 10,500 Tanks or 100,500 hit points per week for the nation in whichever MU they play in.

Grampa Alfagrem
Grampa Alfagrem Dan 1,846, 07:38

The daily excess of 100 tanks is reduced to 50 after hoarding but still see's daily VAT tax of £82.5 or £2,557.5 for January.

So in total thats;

£12,632.5 a month
Average of 15,000 top multiplier hit points daily/ 465,000 monthly

and thats not factoring in the extra VAT cash from members selling on (due to no requirement to meet damage, hit, rank levels to receive supply) that at max would return upto £76,725 a month.

*obv trades off hit points but then we're not in a proper war.

Send love to Plato
Send love to Plato Dan 1,846, 12:35

I dont see the point Danie...didnt previous Governments mention taking us to war when that also was a Congress decision? I recall CD arranging a war yet if all as good and we decided to use our NE for a bonus then surely...that...would...need...a...congress....vote?

See how recently your party have seemed a little petty since you lost the election?

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