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Prinç-Savar

voted yafrım

ikinç voted o7

Atatürk was a bloody dictator.

And I suppost that most Armenians would agree with me.

suppose*

v!!

Whoa whoa whoa whoa. Let's not mess everything up. I won't argue on the facts that he was a succesful strategian and politician but don't fuck history up. Anti-Imperialist? Where did you get that from? What about the massacres his goverment inflicted on the Armenians and the Anatolian Greeks? Were they anti-imperialist too? Just letting you know, being backed by the Bolsheviks doesn't make you anti-imperialist.

First of all Turkish War of Indepence was an anti-imperialist war against Emperial England, France and Greeks. And in that war only Turkish mainlands achieved as war goals. The places which Turkish people are not at majority did not claimed as goals and no place conquered.
Secondly his revolutionary reforms in Turkey, Unlike Leinster's claim he got a great chance to become the Emperor or a true dictator in Turkey but he choosed to bring democracy to Turkey, he made great social and educational leaps and turned Turkey from a great village to a modern country. only this one was a bigger move from Finland Cultural Revolution. and one of his main revolution was about Statism. you can find more information about this on internet.
On the other hand your claim about Armenians was not in Atatürk's time (don't fuck history up) and i don't know where did you get Greek Massacre claim? my family was living in a Greek islands in that time and in the scope of nation's exchange we have sent to Turkey if you call this as massacre Greek's made same on us. You can also search internet and see what greek soliders done in the cities they got in this war.

Firstly I am not defending the Greek goverment or the Greek army, they sacked cities and killed people. Nationalism and anti-imperialism don't pair with each other, a nationalist anti-imperialism is a false travesty of real anti-imperialism. I won't argue on his reformist work. No the mass killings of Armenians didn't happen while he was in office but a lot of them happened during the War which he fought and had a leading role in. So you deny that the sack of Smyrna happened? 150,000 people (the vast majority of which were civilians) lost their lives during that sack. And it wasn't a mere sack with executions and property foreclosures. It was a despicable example of monstrosities, mass rapes, murders of women, children and elderly people. The Armenian district was burned down, thousands of people that tried to escape were thrown in the sea and left to drown by the Allied ships that stood there just looking. This happened during his time in office. No the exchange of population doesn't count as massacre, and no the Greeks didn't do the same to you unless you think that deporting is equal to brutal killings. Your national hero, is someone else's national butcher, I won't blame you for that, this also applies to various examples like Winston Churchill, Napoleon Bonaparte, Genghis Khan, Julius and Augustus Ceasar, Alexander the Great, Hannibal Barca, Vlad Dracula e.t.c please remember that before you present him to us as a Che Guevara of the East.

El Kuervo, also lots of Turks killed by Armenian Rebels this was war time and for example can you blame General Patton (who only fought in Europe) for Nuclear bombing of Japan? Now add this Ottoman's super-authoritic Sultanship government. Also Atatürk's biggest rival in Ottoman Army was Enver Pasha(who was in charge at Armenian Conflict) and he was the one who made everything to make Atatürk go to the execution.
I also would like to remind Atatürk's words about Allied side martyrs:
“Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives … you are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side in this country of ours. You, the mothers, who sent their sons from far away countries, wipe away your tears. Your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.”
If we come back to Greek Issue: Great fire of Izmir collapsed all city not only Armenian district. Today still lots of Armenian and Jews and also some Greek origin people live in peace with us here in İzmir. As i told my grand family was living in Kos island and we exiled to İzmir so i lived all my life in this issue. I wont deny some bad things happened in East between 1914-1922 in Ottoman time, Armenians, Pontus Greeks and also Turks lost their lives there. Only real Argument you can show me after Turkey built in 1923 is Izmir fire (4 days later Turks saved Izmir) I also would like to remind that Serbians and Jews who was in Izmir that times (one of them was Izmir Fire department Chief) was blaming Armenians for Izmir Fire. Izmir is one of Turkey's most important cities and you can also read American investigators report for these conflicts. Just dont rush to judge, let yourself to read both sides have different claims. Also what Greeks made to Turkish towns in Thessaloniki at 1917?

Like I said I am not defending the Greek goverment and the army, they were a bad excuse for a goverment anyway. With Venizelos beaten and people inferior to him in charge disaster was inevitable and the people did fucked up things. But no I don't think that the killings of Armenians were merely war, they were national cleansing to create empty space for the new Turkish state, the hatred of Turks for Armenians grew in a similar way to that of nazi Germany towards the Jews. Think about it ''our nation is not prospering because of them, they control the trade, when will we get rid of them?''. The Young Turk movement also did terrible things to Armenians and they were all overlooked and forgotten. If there is info of people getting trials because of their atrocities towards Armenians show them to me. I did not say that the multi-ethnic community did not re-emerge since then. There are Irish living peacefully with the British in Belfast but does that mean that they don't have a bloody past? I don't know what Americans say about the fire of 1923, but the American writings about the 1922 sack generally say that the Turkish army wasn't very kind. I try to read history as objectively as possible but as they say, history is written by the winner and guess who won that war. The Turkish point of view isn't considered biased just from the Greeks but from everyone who recognises the Armenian genocide. Anyway you seem like a nice guy but the whole attitude of the article seems like it's one step before blasting the Internationale and shouting ''Comrade Ataturk salutes you''.