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President Gobba, please make a strong eGermany.

agree#1

Hate to say it... but shoot was also considered a dedicated helper to the German cause for 6 months 🙁

What are you implying Chicco?

Shoot started to work for and in Germany after the resistance in dez/jan!
Mark started working for Germany before that resistance!

What I am implying is that it is probably time to have a discussion about RL foreigners in the government. This has nothing to do with Mark Wahlberg as a person.

deutschland den deutschen!
are you serious?

@Chicco
That seems awfully hypocritical coming from "The Last Legitimate President of Austria"

@Dr.Pain: First, it is only a question of time until the shoot situation repeats itself. There is no way of reliably vetting people in a browser game except proficiency in our native language. The question is whether or not we choose to learn from the shoot debacle or dismiss it as an anomaly. Second, it is an unspoken rule in most eCountries, and for a good reason. Third, citizenship and obviously fluency in the country's native language are a mandatory requirement for participation in government in all RL countries. This has nothing to do with nationalism or extremism.

@Elisa Vorimberg: First, I was actually living in RL-Austria when I entered the game. Have you lived in RL-Germany? Second, there was no RL-Austrian who pursued the presidency at the time, and no-one except the Hungarian population objected to my bid. Third, my post was intended to kick off a reasonable discussion. Your polemical post is uncalled for, off-topic, and destructive.

Also, keep in mind that we are talking about government here. Not the military, and not Congress.

Naja, also ich denke, da sowieso immer mehr Deutsche ins Spiel kommen, eDeutschland auch zwangsweise "deutscher" werden wird.
Und das ist auch gut so. Ich habe im www. jede Menge Spieler kennengelernt, denen es abschreckt dies zu spielen, weil die sich hier aufgrund der Sprachbarriere ausgeschloßen fühlen. Übrigens ein Phenomen, das es fast ausschließlich in eDeutschland gibt.

Letzten endes, ist es jedem seine Sache, in welcher Sprache er spricht/schreibt/spielt. Wenn jemand die jeweilige Landessprache nicht versteht, dann kann er ja jemanden bittes dies zu übersetzen oder ein "Übersetzer" zu verwenden.

Wenn ich mich z.B. in Rumänien, Sweden oder Polen in deren medienlandschaft erkunden möchte, schreiben sie auch in ihrer Landessprache. Laso, da hilft mir jammern auch nicht. Was mache ich wenn ich wissen will was abgeht? ich muß die Texte dann zwangsweise übersetzen. Das hat rein garnichts mit Deutschland den Deutschen zu tun.

Wenn ich hier in Deutschland unterwegs bin, werde ich schließlich auch nicht gezwungen English oder Chinesisch zu sprechen. Im Gegenteil, von den Ausländern wird ja auch erwartet das sie deutsch sprechen oder entwa nicht?

Für mich steht dieser Punkt jedenfalls nicht zu Debatte oder Diskution. jeder soll es so handhaben wie er es möchte.

This is exactly the kind of thinking that Sweden wants us to be doing. Hey, maybe if we kick out anybody that doesn't happen to live in Germany (regardless of what nationality they identify with and are loyal to) then maybe we will be safer.
That is a destructive way of thinking, especially for a country with only ~1500 citizens.

Sweden's next step then will be bribing German government officials. Besides, any good intelligence network has spies that are either native or very good in the language of the country they spy at.

I agree with Elisa and Habraka on this. So...

"The question is whether or not we choose to learn from the shoot debacle or dismiss it as an anomaly"

For me, "anomaly". I'll say "no, thanks" to paranoia and xenophobia in eLife just as in rLife.

Please, Chicco. Don't start throwing out accusations, and I think your "RL Foreigners" idea is complete BS.

I came to Germany in November, just before the German Independence War. I have not ever lived in Sweden, I have lived in eGermany basically the entire time, except for in the beginning when I lived in the Czech Republic and just a little while ago while I visited Japan.

The point of this game is to create a "New World," not the same old world where people can't do anything they want. Not letting RL foreigners into government is like having some sort of national elitist government.

IRL I live in the U.S.A., and although there is no way to prove that, I have stated it many times before now and I don't see it as a problem.

Guys .. We're waiting 😁

Let me provide you with the American experience.

We once had a president, Franco, who was American in RL.

In a fit of pique at Congress, he gave away our entire treasury and most of our arms.

It took us three months and a big tax hike to recover.

We decided to divide things up so no one person could do so much damage.

More recently, a guy named Navy II, a RL American, was trusted with a good portion of our armory and weapons companies. Again, angry at Congress, he impulsively sold them all at pennies on the dollar and moved to Singapore. Some of it we got back, some of it we didn't.

My point is, you might reduce your risk of catastrophic betrayal by insisting that the president be a RL German, but there are many reasons people become traitors, and you can't eliminate risk entirely.

Really, Jon? Your entire argument is that only a RL American is capable of doing such a thing. As if it is impossible for someone who speaks the same language as the country they live in is trustworthy, and that those people will never become angry at Congress.

It's not a question of nationality, it is a question of trustworthiness and intelligence.

@herrmueller: To accuse me of xenophobia is the joke of the day. I have lived abroad IRL for >10 years, in three different countries on two continents. As to "paranoia", you may or may not have heard of the proverb "only the paranoid survive". There is a lot of truth to it.

What I am suggesting here is simply common sense. Espionage in this game is much more likely to be carried out by a RL-foreigner than a RL-native. Again, I can only re-iterate that these are general considerations and have nothing to do with the person Mark Wahlberg.

The reason I posted my initial remark is that it does make you wonder how, 2 weeks after shoot, 3 out of 4 ministerial posts could be filled with non-German speakers.

@Jon Barack Bluejacket: What you describe here seem to be cases of corruption. However, what I am talking about is treason and espionage. These are apples and oranges, IMO.

Thanks for keeping us up to date.

So Chicco you are basically saying "F*ck you" to the 200-350 people who was there in november 2008 who help start Germany a fresh who were non-germans, looking for a place which they could consider their home country and start a new national feeling.

Instead now Germany is going to become a only speaking-german country and that will not help on those 150+ players who aren't germans or have a proficiancy in German.

No, Morten, I don't recall myself saying that. I think all I said is we may want to discuss whether proficiency of the German language should be a requirement for appointment to a ministerial post and access to confidential information. If not being appointed a minister is an insult, then 99.99% of the population ought to feel insulted.

I also doubt that there are anywhere close to 350 non-Germans in this country. I suppose it's more like 35.

Chicco: If the job is done, doesn't it then not matter if the minister if a german speaker or not? no offence, but if you had to choose between a non-knowing german and a much more informed non-german would you then take the german?
This is not saying there is no knowing Germans, it's merely an example. There are many germans who could be great ministers. I am merely saying non-german can do the same work with the same kind of patriotism as the germans can.

It is merely you and others who are stiring up a hive which is now making people into two catagories of germans and non-germans. 3-5 months ago we were all eGermans. What happened to this?

And making non-germans unable to be ministers, isen't that second-grading people?

I agree with everything you say, Morten. But the national security concern remains. And this is not born out of suspicion toward any specific non-RL-German citizen, but born out of the general consideration that a RL-foreigner is more likely to sell a country down the river than a RL-native.

What lessons have we learnt from the shoot debacle, if any? Should all non-German speakers be banned from government posts? Should people with RL-residence in certain countries be excluded (e.g., shoot lives in Sweden IRL)? Is there any kind of effective vetting process we can come up? Is there any kind of counterintelligence we can mount against these kinds of threats?

If you know me at all, then you know that I am actually very fond of the cosmopolitan atmosphere of eGermany. You will know that I almost always post in English, both here as well as on the forum. My only question is: what are the lessons? And if there aren't any, fine. I just wanted to raise the issue, that's all.

"What lessons have we learnt from the shoot debacle, if any? Should all non-German speakers be banned from government posts? Should people with RL-residence in certain countries be excluded (e.g., shoot lives in Sweden IRL)? Is there any kind of effective vetting process we can come up? Is there any kind of counterintelligence we can mount against these kinds of threats?"

We have learned from shoot that we must look at each individual citizen carefully. No, they shouldn't be banned, I wouldn't want Canadians, Mexicans, or any other nationality to be banned from U.S. politics, that shouldn't matter. No, we should not ban people from government posts based on where they live IRL, I welcome any Swede who is truly devoted to Germany. There is one single process: trust. Just because we had one (1) spy who came in, that doesn't mean we should discriminate based on RL nationality or their language proficiencies.

IMO that is elitist and stupid, and for a long time in eGermany there were more non-German speakers than German speakers. This is the New World, where you get to have a different life from the norm, carrying out RL distrust is not only against the rules, it is counter-productive. I am just as likely to steal the eUSA's treasury as I am to steal eGermany's, and that chance is a big fat 0%.

What you might not realize chicco is your paranoia will kill eGermany. Some of the most dedicated and intelligent people in the game living here in Germany not because they are RL Germans but because when they first started they wanted to live somewhere new in the "New World". Big f*ckin deal if Shoot was not a RL german stuff happens, good and bad. People like me, justin tyme, and verloren konig are dedicated to egermany and we want to hold minister posts and play an important role in making eGermany strong and you saying stupid crap like this makes it very hard for us to make an impact. We spend hours a day on here trying to make a difference but you put it all to waste with stupid a*s commments like that.

I understand and somewhat share Chicco concerns though. When I was Party President and Minister in Belgium before the Union with The Netherlands, I made a law proposal effectively requiring you had to speak Dutch very well in order to be allowed into a government position. I was one of the people that wanted to ban the use of foreign languages in our government, so we could eliminate spies and such. I later found out that it is actually more counter-productive to bar foreigners, as they more often than not are a lifeline for smaller communities in this game.

@Mark: I respect your opinion. I have made my case here, and you have made yours, and it is beneficial that this important issue has been raised and discussed. I believe you will make a fine minister, and none of what I said here was intended to question your inherent qualifications.

@Habraka: I agree with your argument regarding small communities. However, I believe that the German population has reached a critical mass, and that there are now enough qualified native speakers to fill government posts.

@Don Juan Valdez: The lanuguage in your post violates eRepublik rules. However, I decided not to report you because I think your post exposes your lack of maturity and your inability to discuss a delicate subject in a sober and reasonable manner, and this should remain plain for everyone to see.

Deutschland den Deutschen ? Selten so einen Schwachsinn gehört. Ohne fremde Hilfe wäre eDeutschland bereits Geschichte. Solange wir hier nicht genügend eigene (deutsche in RL) Bürger haben, solange sind wir auf zugereiste angewiesen.

Ich hoffe nicht, dass das die Politik der aktuellen deutschen Regierung ist ?! Ansonsten "Gute Nacht, Marrie" - und wenn ich in meiner Zeitung schon solche Artikel lese wie "man darf nichts und niemandem trauen, und auch nicht den Ungarn... bla, bla, bla..." dann kann ich wirklich nur hoffen, dass das zukünftige Deutschland nicht mit solchen Hohlrollern besidelt sein wird.

Well is there no option to let every congressman subscribe an contract to ensure he isnt allowed to work against german interessts? I mean like the promise which RL politicans have to give.

Bencon: There is no such contract in the erepublik gameplay mechanics, but it would be great if it had such a thing.

Just inputting a fun fact to Jon Barack Bluejacket's comment:

In many online games I have played, American players have a tendency to backstab or betray their fellow companions. I speak from experience, and yesterday, when I and my IRL cousin discussed online games, we found that our views on that particular subject was exactly the same.


I don't know what the cause of it is, but my guess is the special IRL nationalism most U.S Americans have 😛



But yeah, it couldn't hurt to distribute the power hold a bit.