Join the new world

Simply depends on the war. Should it for example be a defence of eIreland from a foreign invasion, then it would be an absolute necessity to keep food and weapon prices down. If, however, it weren't a critical war, then tax the hell out of them to the point where it won't drive people to leave the country. Of course, there'd have to be confidence in the government taking all that extra revenue or else everybody would just have a big whinge

I fight a lot. I buy from the Irish market 99% of the time even though the prices here cannot compete with elsehwere. If they are pushed up much higher then I won't be buying in Ireland at all. I think this was a poor decision tbh.

An increase in prices is just going to force us all to buy from outside. I don't see who the rise will benefit, just who it'll hurt.

Nobody cares.

Importers don't sell in eIreland, anyway. All the foreign goods come in to eIreland through citizens acting as brokers. The goods completely avoid all the import taxes meant for those goods. Nobody pays import taxes, because of the eIrish collaborators. The ONE nations will continue to profit from our markets as long as we cooperate with them.

Increasing import taxes does NOTHING!
Lowering import taxes would only cut out the middle man, and also not affect prices.

Not exactly a good idea but as Bhane explained it doesn't make too much of a difference anyway.
I'd just worry that it limits our supply of food and weapons when we need them most.
However, a lot of soldiers are self-sufficient in that they produce all their own food/weapons. And some are supplied by commune system.
So, the marketplace isn't all that important at war time any more anyway.

I work in a commune John, but buy most of my weapons off the Irish market.

And it really pisses me off when I go there during major battles and see the prices gone through the roof.

I'm happy to take your word for it Bhane.

What we need is zero percent import taxes across the board (to encourage trade and cheap supplies), followed by 20-25% taxes both income and VAT to ensure a stable tax income for the government and the army.

I can see how income taxes "hurt" workers...but its a necessary evil to generate tax income...however I don't see how VAT hurts employers?

We need to juggle two objectives: Cheap war supplies and reasonably high tax income.

The only way to achive that is by the combination proposed above.

"We make plenty of revenue with 1% income and VAT."

"We make plenty of money for MPPs."

I seriously doubt that, how much do we generate a month?
You make it sound like you are on the inside as far as numbers are concerned?

I think the reality is rather different, we need to seriously ramp up our state revenue to pay for our MPPs (And sign additional ones) and to be able to equip our soldiers properly.

Also nobody is being "screwed" here by collecting income taxes and VAT. Taxes are a normal part of paying for joint expenses, the alternative is to have no MPPs, no industrial subsidies, no wartime supplies, etc.

Huh? Did you smoke pot?

First off, you completely dodged my question: How do you know we earn enough to pay for our defense?
My guess is you dont, but you pretend you did because it suits your argument.

Second, your whole notion that we are a) sending Gold to foreign countries, or b) would essentially bury our industry if we opened the market is total rubbish.

Third, of course I am not giving up chinese citizenship, are you crazy? If I became irish again Ireland would have half the damage from me than if I remained chinese. What kind of logic is it that you apply??

I am getting the impression your only aim is to protect your personal profts.

What I can do is the following:

I can employ 50-100 irish here in my companies in China. I even pay for their tickets to get here and flyback.
I will pay chinese wages (which are double the wages of ireland), and will sell the goods produced at cost on the irish market.

Now THAT would help Ireland...what you are proposing would make us go belly up sooner than the Brits reach Cork again.

Hey, I am irish too. Maybe you dont like me...but the fact remains I am as irish as you are...with the only difference that my industrial production (and thus my damage for ireland) is about twice as yours.

So its up to you what you want to be, an underperforming flagwaving "patriot", or a true irish that does the max damage he can get out of the game engine.

Thats why I want to raise VAT.

I would pay more taxes selling to Ireland under my model, compared to right now. (Importers do pay local VAT too).
What I am suggesting would actually hurt my business in eIreland, not benefit it. So dont suggest I am putting this proposal forward for my own personal gain, because I am not.

I think our main difference in opinion on what is good for "Ireland" is the fact that we have a different idea what "Ireland" actually is.

For me, "Ireland" is the sum of all irishmen, of all people that consider themselves irish or a close friend of Ireland, and everyone who is helping support irish interests.
This is regardless of their nationality or current location.

Thats why I never had a problem temporarily migrating to China for higher bonuses. My understanding is that this way I can help Ireland better, because of my increased productivity..and this way I believe Ireland isnt worse off (because one person left the country), but better off (because an irishmen can do more damage for Ireland now).

Wow. I got a better response than I thought I would. Keep going. lol

Now I have to think of another question for the next one.

All those comments...

You'd swear it actually mattered XD

I don't give a toss tbh.
I get commune supplies, and I buy from the Irish market when I need to top up. Have to agree with IB re price hikes too.
Can anyone please enlighten me as to wth all this Irish "loyalty" is about anyway? Loyal to what? To whom? To what end?
Srsly, every time I read it I have no clue what it is supposed to mean.
😕

I am employing eIrish Workers! Doing my part to help the economy!

Bhane, I was trying to read those two comments when you removed them. Hmmm.

It doesn't matter, Grainne.

I will always be ridiculed for making eIreland the top priority. I should learn to be a lot more greedy and self-serving. I'm a fool for being idealistic, and I should learn to keep my mouth shut.

Ach, can you not drop the martyr tone and actually explain in simple terms to me, Bhane?
Srsly, I don't get it.
It makes no sense to me at all as far as game mechanics go.

I thought the 35% import tax was enough, considering I still saw Irish GMs with nearly always the cheapest gear on the market. Raising the import tax would just mean Irish GM could raise their prices... to which point I'd ask why would they do that? The current prices they have would still mean they are making profit, otherwise they'd be unable to sell it on the Irish market - instead would sell it elsewhere.

If the Bhane's notion that we are supporting ONE nations with low import tax is shared by the many, then we can embargo ONE nations. Then its only our alliance and ourselves whom we are supporting. Not raise the import tax.

I fully support Seanan's idea of embargo on all ONE nations... and maybe even a few others.

Me too!

lol Bhane made it look like everyone was talking to themselves.

btw Starkad is right in that we do not make anywhere near enough in taxes to run a country. My own rough guess is that if we were to increase our tax-take 4-fold then it still would not be enough. The MPPs there atm are paid for in part from the treasury(taxes) part from donations and part from members of Govt paying right out of their own pocket yet we still have to put up with being called thieves etc cos someone is butthurt that they or their guy didn't win an election.

Why the hell are our taxes(other than Import) so damn low anyway?

This was a very interesting thread, Bhane I wish you hadn't removed your comments.

As we are now:
An Irish wage buys max 2tanks/day usually 1 and some change
A British wage buys 4.5tanks/day. (and there are better rates globally)
Clearly either prices need to come down, or wages up.

There is a partial solution to this problem (part of you will like it, part of you will fkn hate it!).

I will open a thread on this in the Private Dail. Any Irish citizen (or MU member) that wishes to be involved in the discussion can PM me to have their opinion heard.

High income taxes work, they're BY FAR the most consistent source of income for governments in this game barring state companies doing stuff.

Low income taxes and so many players working in communes is why our tax revenue is so low! Our countries economic system isnt efficient to support players fighting and with our low population never will be.

A private worker can only buy one Q5 tank a day from his wage, this is no way to win a war.

Our economy became poor when Bhane closed down, he paid workers strong wages and used only Irish produced products. People came in and bought cheap goods in ONE nations and made huge profits here and forced Bhane out of business.

We need a larger workforce.

I think government should supply weapons to the stronger tanks under the table like they did to John Snuggles when Marcus was CP.

For the recor😛 that ^ never happened

I fully support Seanan's idea of embargo on all ONE nations... and maybe even a few others.
x1000

"I think government should supply tampons to the biggest pussies under the table like they did to Yddub when Marcus was CP."

Fixed that for you there buddY 😛

^ They were maxie sized

Well up till the very end the conversation was going well. lol We don't even produce tampons so John Snuggles comment was completely off topic. lol

The import evaders can afford to sell their foreign tanks for less than 30.
Ask them nicely to lower the prices.

They don't pay eIrish wages, so they can use the money to dump on our MM and devalue our currency. Then take that gold to buy more foreign currency, and buy more cheap supplies to sell here for massive personal profit.

If you want cheap tanks, then go fuel the foreign economies, and sell here. There is plenty of profit margin to allow you to massively undercut the current crop of economy leeches.

I would like to thank Castaneda for the topic of this article. Thanks man.

No to see who else I can rip off for a debate topic.

*Now not no.

YOWZAAA!
Remind me never to mess with Snuggles again.

Yddub brought up a very valid point.

We would be well advised to start a governmental program that aims at supplying our stronger players with weapons, while givingeconomic incentives for younger players to improve their infrastructure.

@Bhane, there simply isn't enough Q5 weapons companies in eIreland so we have to import these products through "brokers", also Q5 tanks can be produced at roughly the price of 27.5 IEPyet the lowest price provided by a producer in eireland is 41.88 IEP.

It is the duty of those with power and influence, to protect those without.

If you want to give stronger players tanks, then buy tanks with your thousands of IEP, and give it to them Stark.

Do not impose that decision on Joe 2-click. Do not weaken the average citizen to strengthen the chosen few in a clique. Do not exploit the "have nots" to give more to the "haves." The strong among us do not need extra help at the expense of the weak.

The few in power have the duty to serve the eIrish people.
The eIrish people are not here to serve the few in power.

Stop suggesting policies that you would never voluntarily participate in yourself, Stark.

I am suggesting to give weapons (worth 30 IEP) to big players, while providing newbies with companies worth 7500 IEP...and you are chest thumping for the poor?

Come on😁

Young and Old player have the same economic skill, but vastly different fighting skills. For that reason it makes sense to give newbies the means of production, while trying to let the oldies do a bigger share of the fighting. Someone with 6000 Str and a Q5 weapon does more damage than someone with 500 str and a Q5...but in a company, both produce exactly the same.
This is basic game mechanics again.

You're ideas have a continual theme of giving to the "haves" at the expense of the "have nots"

hint: The "haves" do not need the help. We can do just fine on our own.

So your plan is to give a single tank to a veteran for each 7500 IEP company you give to a new player? It's not... so don't pretend to compare 30 IEP to 7500. Your plan is to give hundreds of tanks to the chosen few in whatever clique you want in charge, at the expense of Joe 2-click that does not work in the communes of the players that will be reaping the benefits.

I don't recall you suggesting that we give out thousands of IEP to low level new players. Please remind me where you said that. That just seems like a plan that is begging for multis to scam eIreland out of quite a lot.

I'm with the Starkadian on this one and the equal production/unequal damage output is something I have myself been thinking about for awhile now.

We've won quite a few battles this term giving weapons to foreign mercenaries with 5k+ strength. IMHO the state should look to have a massive stockpile of Q5 Weapons so that we can maximise our damage in critical battles. It's as the Starkadian says, basic mechanics. I have also been thinking along the same lines as he about helping new players become more self sufficient. This is one of the times where I have to say I completely agree with him.

He still has a big hook nose like a banana though.

btw Bhane, I am not a "have"

I really could do with some help from time to time. Just cos I'm not a noob does not mean I couldn't use a little help.

And since I have invested time, energy and funds into my attributes then why would "Joe 2 click" be higher up the list for help than me or others like me? The likes of myself are active and are likely to stay active longer than "joe 2 click" who could go inactive shortly after getting help and then it's money wasted. What myself and Starkad are talking about is efficiency and getting the most for the least money.

So, you're saying that you want a "trickle up" economy.
The efforts of the many, should work for the wants of the few.

Or if you prefer a more direct paraphrasing...
The needs of the few, outweigh the needs of the many.

Good luck, Ibhoy. If you think so little of the eIrish people, then maybe you should join some other eIrish in Canada, or Poland, or China.