Air Epic Debate
Day 5,607, 17:52
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Published in Canada 
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by
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by Rylde
An ongoing debate has gone on recently on the country feed since 3 citizens collected nearly 1 million cc for damage done creating a Canadian air epic battle paid for by Canadian taxpayers.
I got tired of wall debates and perhaps I can inform more here.
A few quick questions pop up quite quickly.
Why are we funding a battle so few Canadian citizens are able to show up and get paid for?
Is the govt doing a good enough job of informing its citizens of the where and when of these battles are taking place?
Personally I think solving question #2 quickly takes care of question #1. It just comes down to why isnt this being done in an organized and timely matter since its your citzens bankrolling the program.
Post a time at monday daychange on the country feed or a small article saying its coming at this time. If thats to much work for the govt give me the information when you have it and i'll post it. A post as its happening is a step in the right direction but we can do better.
The other part of the equation is of course our TW partner India and them liking to hit when its most convenient for them in the evening. 9-10am Canada est time puts it around 6-7pm India, primetime for any eNation.
Like any good partnership there should be give and take on both sides so both parties are treated equally. If tax dollars are being used we should be working towards having some of the epics during Canadian primetime. Otherwise again why should taxpayers fund it.
I know for myself tuesday mornings 7:30-8:30am MTN time im gettin kids ready for school and as someone who works till 1am hits the hay around 2am its nice to just crawl back into bed afterwards.
Im sure that also puts many players that work 9-5 and in a tough position to take part. Covids over were all back at work and our in game govt needs to adapt to its player base not the other way around. Your elected to represent and serve.
We've been allies with India for years now and you would think as a long time friend they would be open to negotiations. Maybe 10-11pm est Canada time to 7-8am India time.
Perhaps give your citizens a chance to start one on our own with everyone contributing for an evening air epic after wheel of fortune when we all have stingers.
Then we can all make bank instead of just saying dont like it go make your own. I get it, we all get it, you dont like me but I'm making good points and it would be helpful to the average player around here if we worked together and gave them an occasional primetime epics. You act like your the only ones that can drop a million in the skies.
If more players in this country are interested in being included in an air epic that currently is only catering to the top tier of actives make yourselves heard reagardless of your current rank, time in game or political affiliation.
You are paying for this program and paying our strongest citizens to start these battles that should be aiding as many Canadians rank up as possible not just the few hardcores that show up in the morning like its a part time job.
Govts get complacent and stale over time. They need to be pushed by there opposition and citizens to be better for those they serve.
The only thing this govt fears is more and more players speaking out and banding together asking for more.
Feel free to answer some or all of these questions if your in the govt. I welcome the responses. I realize perhaps in the past many of these topics were covered before. It never hurts to rehash old topics perhaps gaining diffrent points of view from new or returning players or even perhaps your enemies.
The needs of the many should outweigh the needs of the few when it comes to tax money otherwise its not a great look and not worth funding.
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comment... o7
It's a closed club. The fewer regular folk know about these EPICS, the more tax payer dollars can get doled out to the "Elites"
It's not a bug, it's the feature...
The epic times are fairly consistent at 08:00 or 09:00 in the morning, particularly for air epics as that is when India has their air players around all at the same time to contribute their half of the damage. Ground epics, because we have to coordinate our small number of ground tanks, tend to happen later in the day. Early would be 10:00 or 11:00 erep time, but most times ground epics move to later in the day, around 18:00 or 19:00 erep time.
Epics later in the day are less beneficial as people essentially lose out on a full day of higher energy recovery as they wait for the Canadian epic to take place, which is why in most cases it happens in the morning. There has been talk of day change epics, but those are not gone for because while we would be able to put together enough to push it to epic, it's not useful if Canadians can't participate.
The current time doesn't work for all, I understand. And I know firsthand. The current time means I am always at work and can never actually get online to participate in creating the epic or fighting in it for double prestige points. But it does work for many. Typically 15-20 Canadians participate in the epic. When we've had them in Canadian primetime, we've sometimes had a great turnout, 20-25, or abysmal turnout,
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I got 85k which was pretty sweet
"Perhaps give your citizens a chance to start one on our own with everyone contributing for an evening air epic after wheel of fortune when we all have stingers".
You're not a details man.
It's just math.
It takes roughly 15,000,000 hit points to turn an air battle epic in Canada. You can get this number from Kippers posts on the air epic payouts, so it's not a mysterious figure. Stingers give 1,000 hit points, so you'll need 15,000 stingers to turn it, so 7,500 for Canada and 7,500 for India (although India usually does around 55-60% ). Monthly spin gives 3 stingers and one may get 20 landings on stingers over the two days = 60 stingers.
You'll need 125 people to dump all 60 stingers to just to do Canada's half.
Even if we doubled it to 40 landings on powerspin ( so 120 stingers), it's still 62 people that need to show up at the beginning. There's not 60 active people in Canada at any day, much less in the beginning of a air battle.
Or 3-4 people could unload 400-500 stingers and quickly bring the battle to epic. But they're not getting them from power spin.
When you go off all half-cocked like this it makes you look like you have no clue how this game actually works
You told me you didn't want to engage me in a discussion, so I'm not devoting any more time on this article.
Yeah well that never stops you from dropping in your 2 cents so i will as well.
Then as a long time ally lets ask India to help us start one during our primetime for once. If there not agreeable to that i think funding should be cut from the program as we shouldnt be shelling out tax dollars helping very few of our citizens while catering to anothers.
I respect honest, open discourse, but this just seems like a veiled attack on someone. I don't know the history between you two obviously, but let's stick to the issues here and minimize the back and forth over petty differences, or past conflict. I think Rylde makes some good points and his encouragement towards all citizens to give their opinion should be applauded not shamed.
That would mean more coming from someone who hasn't voted with Rylde in every vote since elected to congress. It just seems you don't want an open and honest dialog, you, like Rylde, just want things Rydle's way.
Rylde can't make the Tuesdays air epics, lets change it.
Rylde wants to get paid for creating an air epic, lets have people do it with powerspin stingers
Rylde got himself kicked out of HAP, lets end it
Rylde wants import taxes raised, lets do that
Rylde wants to be in congress, lets take over a party
Rylde snipes Canadians and brags about it on the country feed and everyone in your party is 100% fine with that boorish behavior
He is a tiresome toddler that makes everything about himself.
If you dont agree witht he message of the article thats fine but its not all about me as you would suggest. That is just a lazy cop out on your part.
Were spending 1-1.5 million cc for 3-5 guys to get paid. Thats plainly a misuse of tax dollars paid by all.
Ive been paid for helping start an epic in the past that is not in dispute here.
Yeah ive been out of HAP for about a year now and i feel there nothing but welfare cheques to those that support the govt.
Import taxes were not my idea and the guy that raised them shouted alot about it so obviously you dont catch as much as you would like to think. I think im just in your head to much, get a life maybe.
Its my right as an active player to be in congress and you have no right to try and stop me.
I asked to resign from HAP for a few months and was denied as there was no rule you could resign. So there meet me halfway was a lifetime ban which is kinda unfair when you think about it. So in protest I snipe Canadians. If they chose to lift the ban I'd probably stop.
I'm playing the game and presented this debate in a fair and adult manner you point out the parts that are childish and perhaps we can discuss those.
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My previous response got cutoff
Rylde: Were spending 1-1.5 million cc for 3-5 guys to get paid. Thats plainly a misuse of tax dollars paid by all.
I do not think its plain at all. if WK's numbers are correct, we know it takes a lot of damage to make an air epic. Most of us want a Canadian air epic. In order to make one, 3-5 people have to buy the stinger packs. This way they are compensated for the 100s of gold they used to buy the packs. I could buy a pack and join in, but I don't have that level of gold hanging around. I would rather get the prestige points.
i think its a good use of tax money and would vote for it if it came up again as i fight mostly in air and like the air epics. I can not see another way to get an air epic.
All the article is saying lets try to have one during Canada primetime one in awhile. What it all boils down to. Once a month if possible.
Before I left there was great communication about Epics via PM thread and Discord. Epics have never been a secret. Those who actually converse in a civil manner speak of these things. The only thing that has changed as of late is the time by 1 hour. Those who create the Epics (rarely me) are getting a rebate for the actual funds they spend in buying stingers and bars as well as for their time. Why shouldn't they? The Epic then is a benefit to EVERYONE who participates.
If you weren't such a shyt you'd be in HAP. Not sure if you're in Discord as I'm not in the channel nor will I be anytime soon but as stated previously there was communications there. In game communications are slow and bulky. Not sure why people are adverse to Discord or Telegram. Armenia uses TG pretty effectively for all things eRep.
My opinion is put up or shut up. Help create an Epic for once. Quit your illiterate rants, stop sniping people as they need gold too and maybe, just maybe some of us would listen. As of know you sound like any Charlie Brown adult mixed with liberal ideologies. I'm surprised you haven't brought facism into the conversation.
Yes we have great communication for about 15-20 players and gets a bit murky after that as its more than just me. Other citizens are in this country that arent in discord or your pm threads. Not sure whats hard to get about that.
We have things the game gives us such as the country wall feed and the ability to write articles such as this. The country feed is a great tool thats not being used enough to get the word out enough all i'm saying.
Again more than just me this concerns as im a busy man in the mornings as well as others so some thought and effort should be put into other times. If the govt is using tax dollars they should be catereing to its people not the other way around. If thats not possible then shut it down.
As expected you didn't read a single thing I said.
Nope i addressed you talks about communication that are no longer up to snuff.
Never once did i say that those that start epics shouldnt be compensated thats not in dispute. I'm saying if not enough players are showing up at the morning hit look at trying diffrent times atleast occasoionally. A meet in the middle suggestion.
This has more to do thatn just me as 5% of the canadian population is on discord or govt pm's. The in game country feed is far from slow and bulky. Its quick to point out when a new message is posted and its one click to read it. No fuss, no butts ,no cocunuts.
Ive helped create them in the past but usually i choose real life responsibilities to fighting in the morning. prefer my 7 year old doesnt get herself ready for school by herself. Im also sure as the article stated many other players cant make an early morning hit due to real life. Even comments below from players who are far from my supporters say they cant make it.
So why not try to accomadate once in awhile an evening hit and we could probably have more players show up to help and get paid. You obviously missed the message of the article due to your personal feelings towards me and thats fine. You can live with that crutch i have no such entanglements holding me back.
Once my HAP ban for resigning is lifted i'd probably stop sniping Canadians but im sure the govt would prefer me a villain.
He he, knew there was a reason I voted to accept your citizenship request.
Yeah and he's easily argued with and ignored like any yankee should be treated. In the face of a good argument he'll resort to grammar correction and thats when i know I've won and can move on.
Wasn't talking to you.
But since you bring up "Yankee", I'm more "Johnny Reb", but still a southern import. 💩
You've been sniping me for years so I dunno why you piss and moan when i do it to others. Didnt hear me crying when you sniped me for days on end and laughed in my face. Just paying it forward. No laws are being broken and thats how we used to do it back in the day until the Libtards took over.
I would just like to say as a newer player, I find it hard sometimes to get involved in these coordinated battles for some of the reasons Rylde mentioned. Sure, some of it is on me for not always reading the "right feed" or whatever, but I do think there is some legitimacy to the fact that there is a difficulty for newer players with less money/weapons/food to get involved. I agree with Rylde we should be encouraging everyone to actively participate. I gather there is conflict between Rylde and some of you, but that shouldn't stop his message here from coming through, its a good one..
There is a consistency on the time. Once a battle is epic, there is normally at least 85 minutes left for anyone who isn't able to be there at the start to jump on. It is consistent in the morning at 08:00 or 09:00, as was mentioned in the comments section of the feed (I don't blame people for not looking there).
If you are unable to make that, I sympathize alongside of you. I am also not able to make it to the epics as they are at a time that is not great for me, even though I'm "part of the elite". Just how the cookie crumbles.
As you mention, you are newer with less money/weapons/food. That's the exact reason why we put on these epics that are largely pushed with the stronger players. We encourage them to be willing to spend resources by subsidizing a part of their cost so that they are willing to continue to push these epics for the benefit of all eCanadians who can make it out to them. To be quite frank, we don't want newer players to help push an epic, because it's a waste of your resources. We'd rather you benefit from it after it's been turned epic so that you can just focus on growing your own stockpiles of weapons and energy bars.
The epic funding program is a subsidy for the stronger players to encourage them to create epics. It is costly to create them, and the subsidy does not cover even half the cost of these players and the resources they use to create the epics.
All that to say, essentially, that for a player like yourself and a good portion of the Canadian population, it's actually more profitable for you to fight after the battle has turned epic. Don't let the money cloud your vision. It looks like a lot of cc, but the players who pushed have spent a whole lot more than they received, whether it be in gold, or energy bars, or weapons.
You would think perhaps atleast once a month we could try for an evening air epic and record the results and see if its worth the time and money of starting. Cant be any worse than paying 3-5 guys millions as we are doing already.
Im not asking for the moon here and if more show up its a win for everyone thats something you cant deny.
@Rylde: lemme get this right. This is your air epic proposal:
1. Have it in Canada prime time
2. Have it scheduled and announced in advance
3. The government will spend double funds for this epic payout since we're expecting to create 100% of the epic instead of 50%
4. Evaluate to see how many Canadians benefit from the epic creation in prime time.
Add or adjust as you wish, it's your proposal.
Our starting point is determining if we have enough resources around to create an epic in the first place. Doable if prime time frees up enough of us and if we got stingers from a sale. I wouldn't count on the spins to make enough of a dent to contribute to air epics.
I believe you missed the part where the govt of India can be asked instead of it always being during there primetime. We always hit in the morning so one would think they wouldnt mind having to once a month atleast if it proves beneficial for us.
Otherwise the same argument can be made that do they want to always have to do 100% of all the damage creating one.
Its called negotiating perhaps you've heard of it so one side isnt gifted all concessions.
Thank you, I respect the response and explanation. I appreciate you taking the time to explain the rationale.
"...difficulty for newer players with less money/weapons/food to get involved."
That's definitely a problem of the game itself, not really the players fault 🙁 I feel for you, as you face a seemingly impossible uphill battle.
Join the HAP program next time you see the registration. Fight in Canadian air battles on our side, and get free CAD.
Ask for help/food/weps/whatever as the need arises
I think that's fair... the game has a steep curve for newer players who are always playing catch-up to longer/more experienced players. In fairness, I did join the HAP program and receive funds and I am appreciative of that. My goal is to put a voice out there for newer players.. and make sure our views/perspective is taken into account.
I appreciate the tips + advice.
Whose multi are you? lmao
I can never hoin epics either but it is usually well stated once panned. It sounds to me like a coup to end epics for ecanada. I remember we had a country debate for and against epics and haps and majority of comments were a yay for both. the major problem we have all been having is lack of responses from country opinion-wise as well as input with new ideas and debate. Congress appreciates and looks forward to making things get put into action but the air has gone out of ecanada participation. You shout out and get nothing but air back sometimes. If you don't feel heard maybe PM someone in congress about your idea(s) cause with the spamming it is sometimes tough to make time every single day to see all.to say congress doesn't listen or is only "selfish" is bunk. congress ears are always open. just only the evil five always speaking and its usually wining about others or attacking them. If people whant epics to stop then make your voice heard
.. no offense . but you asked why is it not done ? because from what i see most energy and time is spent to make sure you do not destroy this country , there is no other time left to start something new , its been spent on your darling group to help prevent this country from a total wipe
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You miss having power and you want it back that's all this is all about & your a attention seeking whore!
So you see no merit in the suggestion of having one during Canada primetime?
Thank you for treating me with the respect i'm giving everyone else during this discussion. Let your petty hatreds cloud your judgement. I can feel your anger. It will make you powerful.
As far as power goes i think its more about the chase of it more than anything. Keeps things interesting around here. Otherwise its pretty stale.
I don't think they are getting paid to create an Air EPIC.
I think they are getting compensation for all the gold and CC they spent to get the Stingers and EB's to create the EPIC in the first place.
What incentive would a person have for creating one other wise?
Imagine all the gold they are also giving up in SH they could of got by not creating an Air Epic.
Epics for Canadians are good for newer players. Having a usual time makes it easier for two countries to co-ordinate.
If its during primetim then perhaps they wouldnt be forced to be compensated for so much with more willing to help.
There is zero benefit for helping start an EPIC Rylde, it is everyone else who gets the benefit of 2x PP after it is started. The double PP is not retroactive to the start but that would be nice.
Sure there is, you get some compensation. I spin 500k on the wheel monthly i can go drop a million.
I guess you could try and see but I doubt the wheel is that generous.
Like the article states we should ask for India's help for once a month i dont know why were operating only on there terms during India primetime. As a long time friend and ally you would think it wouldnt be to much of a strtch.
We don't have an EPIC every week. The Stingers must align.
Questions were asked and compromises were made and the current arrangement is what resulted.
and what did they compromise exactly?
For the most part they prefer earlier and we prefer later. Almost every country in the eWorld has their EPIC just after day change at the start of the week to optimize recovery.
Poland and Estonia have a D4 epic right after day change which I usually fight in. We have an MPP with Estonia so anyone awake at that time can take advantage of this eipc. No TP however so not great, but useful.
Day change however is too early for most of us in Canada accept for us west coasters.
It would be useless to most people to have it during our prime time because it wastes the entire day without gaining energy. The whole point is to start the week with max energy gain.
So the goal is to have it as close after day change as possible so we get the benefit of the energy boost and early enough to be of use to both India and Canada.
The balance of these two objectives has fallen to Tuesday mornings and exact time depends on India and Canada campaign and battle timing.
Probably the best explanation ive had on the subject, thank you. I good explanation goes alot farther than "this is the way" so shut up troublemaker.
I get the rationale of everything now although i still cant help but feel the odd one in the evening would be nice as epics are all day so the tanks of the realm can set themselves up easily for the average joe that would benefit.
Special events where you need double PP to complete the week you could probably have a later d4 EPIC created by the few legends we have.
For the record I used 550K of cc on the wheel and got 100 stingers. No one is making money creating an epic.