The North European Treaty Organization - Utopia or Inevitablity?
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by Erwin Schauman
V1 is continuing its relentless march towards the view, and it promises us a new era of diplomacy, economy and warfare. However, it also brings us challenges. Obstacles to overcome. What does the future hold for Finland, a small stricken nation in the north?
All Scandinavian countries got the short stick in the resource lottery, and now it seems we will neither receive production bonuses. How are we to compete against the supernations that use their industrial might to mass produce everything and invade our markets with cheap products? The economic system is broken beyond comparison, and it is to this fact we have to get used to. The developers want to choke the small countries. If their new rules wont do it, then the certain battles for resources will.
V1 will make wars of conquest much more attractive option. Russia became one of the richest countries in the world, but this might also be their undoing. As we speak, greedy plans to invade them are most likely being made in the headquarters of aggressive nations. Alone they can't defend their country. Perhaps PEACE or ATLANTIS will help? Wrong. The time of big alliances is coming to an end. They are too massive to remain intact. Not anymore, when resources have become a good incentive to invade other countries.
Is there no hope for us and our Scandinavian and Russian brothers?
My suggestion to the situation is the formation of The North European Treaty Organization (NETO) with Sweden, Norway, Finland, Russia and Poland. The union would be dedicated for safeguarding the North European (including Russia, Germany and Poland) resources and territorial inviolability. This agreement would be made in addition to other alliances that the members might have, but it takes precedence in cases of conflict.
The secondary function of this union would be to ensure the free movement of resources from one union country to another, in order to make sure our economies will not collapse under foreign pressure.
The member states would remain independent, and able to dictate their own regional laws, as long as they don't conflict with the free trade regulations of the NETO. However, the matters of international importance are decided in Union Congress, consisting of ten elected players from each of the member states. The Union Congress would have the power to decide, if all member states go to war and if trade embargoes have to be issued or if import taxes have to be changed.
I would like to invite players from all the suggested member countries to discuss this proposal in an open manner, and to provide solutions to its possible problems.
Can we stand united or do we all try to aspire for greatness by ourselves?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SeuPZoi2GE&my=1[/youtube]
Sabaton - Union. It's about allies fighting in Italy during WW2, but some of the lyrics are accurate even in this case.
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You have to understand eRussia was Marxist-Leninist before the takeover and things were going well. eRussia will return to this and drive out all foreign company\'s.
The bulk of us are educated in economics we know all about free market benefits there is nothing new there. We want to experiment with something new and radical rather than stick to the same old game. This game gives us the perfect place to attempt Marxist Theory. Black markets and crime are nonexistent so in theory this should work.
Why cant you get over the profiting and military parts of the game and attempt to redefine the game. Think outside the box.
As long as our sovereignty remains intact I have no doubt we would be willing to make economic deals in exchange for protection. Aside from that eRussia will have a closed planned economy. Free Trade is essentially out of the question.
I think Finland, Norway, Sweden, Poland, Germany and Denmark can co-operate to benefit from and protect the very resource rich Mother Russia.
Atlantis is absolutely our big friend here but Atlantis is big and have many wills and concerns. The Nordic states along with Poland and Germany could give special attention in all aspects of the word to this region of the world help securing Russia which has 2\'s in every resources presented in the game so far.
Together we could share intelligence, co-operate in trade and create a very powerful military force perhaps under such a name as Nordic Battle Group to get some modern real life touch to it.
This Nordic Battle Group can be acting under Atlantis Colors and be trained and \'melted together\' as a group in other wars that Atlantis is involved in.
It\'s crucial for any country that wish to be successful in this game that it can secure productions with 2\'s in all Raw Material resources. I doubt we are capable to do it one by one - alone, but together we can.
Signed
Misho, Minister of Defense, Sweden.
Exchanging resources for protection is a fair deal. Essentially, we just have to come to an agreement what is the price of protection, and if it equals the benefits of what free trade between our countries would give, then I see no problem with it.
However, I do have to disagree about the banning of foreign companies. The 200 citizens you have now is not going to cut it. If you are to build your industry, you\'re going to need foreign assistance in the form of investors and workers. I have no doubt that there are Finns willing to move to Russia to become entrepreneurs, and there\'s probably going to be a need for placing permanent garrisons to protect your land. Naturally these garrisons can be used for labour as well.
If you feel it\'s necessary, then you can enforce your closed market policies with the constitution, but do realize that you will never be left completely alone as long as you possess those resources. It\'s unfortunate, and I can understand your will to experiment with the theory of communism, but some concessions have to be made.
That\'s the problem HateBot, you won\'t be left alone...
As far as i can remember, we have been in joint operations with Sweden before, so i don\'t see that as a concern(Our ties with ATLANTIS should still be very strong).
However, the main issue is not about creating some special alliance between the northern countries, it\'s about the existence of our countries. All our countries together would not manage to stand against PEACE, and by creating this new alliance, we will step further away from ATLANTIS.
The best solution would be to unite eNorway, eFinland and eRussia. Each country should have their own leader, but the foregin policies should be the same(common president who is one step above the country leaders, but he can\'t act on a local level in the different countries).
We would need to change our flag and name to make that happen offcourse.... However, we would still face several difficulties: How to elect local leaders, and how to give Russia a closed economy that still would support the market of the other countries in the union. Perhaps this could be done by setting the export taxes to 0, but how to give them the closed economy itself?
Sure it\'s \"fantastic\" to have the same flag etc. as in real life, but after a month or two in this game, you don\'t really care anymore aslong as your country is independent. I would say being a member of such a federation would be suffcient enought to be defined as independent.
And for all you finns who dislikes this: C\'mon, you would have the president for the first 2-3 months(or untill SF is split).
Well if eRepublik was more user oriented we could set up a system like Native American Indian tribes have in the US. A \"Nation within a Nation,\" but I don\'t think that\'s possible at the moment.
Suggested participants in NETO may be too fundamentally different in goals and outlook to function well together. To use the broadest possible brush, Norwegians are bitter and past their prime, Russians would prefer to be left alone (to be annexed by Pakistan), and Germany is a non-entity at this point. Poles are there and highly visible, but they might have plans of their own. Finland... to put it kindly, the current population boom has brought aboard too many Tony Halme -types, who are more interested in Greater Finland than international cooperation.
Sweden on the other hand is one of the more reasonable eCountries, and they would have to be the driving force behind NETO. But would they be interested in the position of primus inter pares and arbitrator among a flock of unruly children? After all, NETO needs their participation far more than they would need NETO.
Sjefen: I agree with you for the most part. I suggest we name the new federation as United Independent Northern Countries or UINC. I think many finns want to see the word \"independent\" and basically that would be true in your plan.
Sjefen: I do not see how completely united empire is better than a federation of free nations. We can have common foreign policies even with Finland and Russia independent. We can have military assistance even with Finland and Russia independent. We can even have free trade. There\'s no actual *need* for keeping the empire intact and quite frankly, Finns will declare independence no matter what the situation. You should know this already.
The alliance isn\'t a step away from Atlantis as such. As Misho said, we can still participate in Atlantis operations, but preferably as a single unit with one HQ. The NETO, or whatever we choose to call it, would be a regional economic and military alliance. NETO would be far better in keeping the North Europe peaceful than a loose alliance of nations, all with separate agendas. Besides, as we all would quite likely be Atlantis members, I do not see the problem of creating our own separate alliance within the alliance.
Tandefelt: I think the goals would be the same: to protect our regional integrity and set up a free trade zone to combat the flood of foreign products. I am not saying it will be easy, thanks to our ideological and cultural differences, but I am saying we have to try. It\'s just a matter of finding a solution that pleases all of the member states. All I know of Finland\'s demands at this point is that we must get our independence. That\'s something I don\'t see us negotiating about.
I see no other options to solve the challenges that lie ahead without forming this kind of regional alliance.
\"Sjefen: I do not see how completely united empire is better than a federation of free nations. We can have common foreign policies even with Finland and Russia independent.\"
Not really, trust me on this. One president would say something, and another would say something else. It would never work.
\"There\'s no actual *need* for keeping the empire intact\"
Well, you would infact be left with nothing if you leave the empire. Russia would be annexed by PEACE, and eNorway would be the only country with strong enought economy to still do \"OK\". It\'s a logical conclusion to take that Finland would become extremly weak if they were to leave the empire.
\"The alliance isn\'t a step away from Atlantis as such. As Misho said, we can still participate in Atlantis operations, but preferably as a single unit with one HQ. The NETO, or whatever we choose to call it, would be a regional economic and military alliance. NETO would be far better in keeping the North Europe peaceful than a loose alliance of nations, all with separate agendas.\"
An alliance within an alliance...? And when have this _ever_ worked out nicely?
\"Besides, as we all would quite likely be Atlantis members, I do not see the problem of creating our own separate alliance within the alliance.\"
Could cause the other countries in ATLANTIS to crate a similar alliance, and if that were to happen, ATLANTIS would be split(and you know it).
\"I see no other options to solve the challenges that lie ahead without forming this kind of regional alliance.\"
Well that\'s 100% BS, don\'t be naive.
\"All I know of Finland\'s demands at this point is that we must get our independence. That\'s something I don\'t see us negotiating about.\"
So being the major part in a federation is not enought? Truly you cannot speak for everyone if that is so, even Dr Geller over here finds it reasonable.
I base my arguments on the fact that the independence seeking SF party has over 1300 members. How many do the Norwegian imperialist parties have? Less than half of that? You do the math. Convert 1000 more supporters and I will agree with you that Finland does not want independence. Right now there\'s no support for your claim.
I think it\'s finally time for you to accept that Finland *is* going to be independent and no amount of crying over it will change that. That\'s why I feel the suggestion of keeping our nations together is not going to work, and that\'s why I think we have to seek for alternative options. One of them being this regional alliance, which is basicly the same thing as your proposed everlasting union but with us having independence and sovereignty. Are you truly saying it\'s impossible to do it this way, just because you want to maintain Norway as an Empire?
\"I base my arguments on the fact that the independence seeking SF party has over 1300 members. How many do the Norwegian imperialist parties have? Less than half of that? You do the math. Convert 1000 more supporters and I will agree with you that Finland does not want independence. Right now there\'s no support for your claim.\"
Well then i suppose we once again have need of my smoothtalking.
\"I think it\'s finally time for you to accept that Finland *is* going to be independent and no amount of crying over it will change that.\"
That\'s why i don\'t cry, my actions have always spoken louder then my words.
\"That\'s why I feel the suggestion of keeping our nations together is not going to work, and that\'s why I think we have to seek for alternative options.\"
The mob have one oppinion today, and another one tomorrow. Everyone joined SF because \"everyone joined SF\". The power of the media can change the direction of the mob. And you\'re right, you will get independence, but would it be iniside a federation or left alone in the cold?
\"One of them being this regional alliance, which is basicly the same thing as your proposed everlasting union but with us having independence and sovereignty.\"
Well, it\'s only Finland who actually need this little \"you are my best friends, the rest of ATLANTIS are just friends\". It just proves that you realize the fact that Finland *will* become much weaker if it were to leave the empire.
\"Are you truly saying it\'s impossible to do it this way, just because you want to maintain Norway as an Empire?\"
You only care about yourself, and you\'ve proven that by removing russian claims for independence. PEACE must crush both Russia(and most likely Finland) before they even can reach eNorway, it\'s you who need this special alliance, not us.
I would love to see an example of Sjefen\'s smooth-talking. So far the esteemed oligarch has used nothing but thinly-veiled threats and appeals to naked force. Neither will not go down well with the \"mob\". Your arguments seem distinctly counter-productive in this regard. Have you considered concentrating on converting the Congress and SF luminaries and using your immense personal wealth to hire some Pericles reborn to sway the plebs?
I\'m sorry Sjefen, but I must tend to lend my support more so towards Erwin\'s suggestion.
While it is my first priority to see this country remain united, it is my oppinion that the rift between Norway and Finland under the present situation may be to wide for this sort of cooperation to exist. The majority of Finnish citizens seek independence, no matter what that leads to, and as that is their reason for playing eRepublik, I don\'t see that changing.
PEACE will no doubt serve as the financial backing for a civil war, regardless of the cooperation Norway manages to attain with the Finns. As it stands now, I am not so sure a civil war would be won by Norway. Should the Finns be successful (and stop their march at Finland\'s borders), we would now be in a situation where the bonds between our 2 nations have been torn even further, with Finland having that much closer a relationship with PEACE.
Finland establishing relations with PEACE could be avoided however, should Norway cooperate in its independence. A plan, like NETO, would then be beneficial on both sides towards rebuilding Scandinavian brotherhood.
\"So far the esteemed oligarch has used nothing but thinly-veiled threats and appeals to naked force.\"
So when did i threat anyone and appeal to force? Learn to read dammit, i\'m tired of people making their own conclusion,
\"Have you considered concentrating on converting the Congress and SF luminaries and using your immense personal wealth to hire some Pericles reborn to sway the plebs?\"
And why would i want to do that? I don\'t seek power.
By giving up Finland and Russia we would end up being a louse merchant republik. This was once the policy of the Binaryparty, and i sought to never see that happen.
It\'s better to die standing tall, then to live kneeling.
\"It\'s better to die standing tall, then to live kneeling.\"
And yet you are the one to criticize Finns for following the same principle.
\"And yet you are the one to criticize Finns for following the same principle.\"
Flag and nation is nothing i care much about, it\'s what it represents that matters. You have the president for the moment, so you are not in any position to claim that you\'re \"kneeling\".
I will however be just enought to claim that the russians more or less are in that position(even though independence would be an insane claim as things are now, as they would be annexed within a week or two).
Sjefen: I am not a member of the congress or the group that decides Finland\'s policies. I can\'t give up independence claims of Russia (not that I think I have at any point). That\'s the job of the leaders, if they so choose. I merely use my power as a common citizen to bring solutions to the situation we *all* face. These are all my views of the matter, and if government thinks this is the best course of action, then I am pleased.
Even if the V1 will hurt Finland the most, it doesn\'t change the fact that we all would benefit from military and economical alliance. Even you must see this, if you only could accept that Finland will be independent.
We don\'t want to hurt the Norwegians. We don\'t want to destroy Norway. We do have to be selfish in this matter and declare independence. If that will be a problem for you, then the economy of Norway is fundamentally build in a wrong manner. Surely it\'s not the loss of territory that you find problematic. Besides, free market will bring you more consumers. You don\'t need us to sustain your economy.
All nordic countries can benefit from the resources in Russia without paying anything. We can solve it with low trade taxes and have swedes as well as finns/norwegians working to produce raw materials in Russia.
The Nordic Battle Group - if created - should work within Atlantis. We have nothing to win to break free from Atlantis. Peace GC is not a valid option.
\"All nordic countries can benefit from the resources in Russia without paying anything. We can solve it with low trade taxes and have swedes as well as finns/norwegians working to produce raw materials in Russia.\"
Well, then it\'s pretty clear why Sweden wants Russia to break free from Norway. Cheap resources for Sweden, eyh? Well Russia wants to follow the example of Karl Marx, and that means closed borders when it comes to trade.
Erwin, i see your point, but i\'d still like to see eNorway be a major power. It\'s boring being part of a peacefull little merchant republik way up in the north. If we break up, we would only.... trade? That\'s kinda boring in the length. Especially if you\'re not a congressmember.
Even though i think we took Russia and Finland on unfair grounds(i voted against taking Finland, and only vote for Russia because they were to become a part of PEACE), it was still damn fun.
I understand your concerns, Sjefen, but look at the matter from this point of view: the NETO (or whatever) will become the strongest economic and military organization in the world. As such, there *will* be wars to protect our sphere of influence. Quite quickly after V1 comes, Atlantis and Peace will cause there to be a real world war that will last for a long time and shatters those alliances. After that, smaller wars will ignite all over the world, where we can act as peacekeeping forces. We have a lot more to do than just trade. Wars will be plentiful, and who is to say NETO itself cannot start them if the situation calls for it?
The situation with Russia is a bit problematic. Naturally, we shouldn\'t deny their right to become independent, but on the other hand, we can\'t accept that Russia refuses to trade us their resources and joins Peace or adopts isolationist policies. This is something we need to solve together with RRF leadership. Hopefully, they can come up with a solution to settle this issue.
Sjefen, I don\'t want Russia to break free from Norway/Finland. Nothing stops people to move to Russia and start companies there, since we have good relationsships with Norway/Finland I would love to see Russia remain under Norwegian/Finnish control.
But I hope that you guys are willing to offer low trade tariffs to Sweden and that we all can help out defending Russia against invaders.
Russia has no problem with trade as long as it is kept in tandem.
meaning we only trade surplus goods and not something which will stop us from providing the production quota for the week of say, grain, or homes.
There will be a need to increase the production in Russia. 200 citizens may be enough to provide you essential goods to manage on day to day basis, but we need you to supply products for 4000 citizens of the alliance. Your industry at its current state cannot accomplish that, so we do have to send a fair amount of players to build your industry.
Could it be possible that these foreign controlled companies only provide resources for other countries of the alliance at a price they set themselves? That way, they wouldn\'t interrupt your market experiment since they are not competing in the Russian market, and we would get the supplies we want. Imagine it like you have sold rights for us to harvest your resources to be used in our countries to produce goods.
Of course, if you want total freedom to test your theories, then we could possibly give you a slice of Russia in which you can set your own rules as you see fit. Sounds terrible, I know. It\'s like what Americans did to Indians, but that\'s about the only way I can see you having freedom to do what you want. I don\'t think you will be entirely happy with the other options available either, ie. not getting independence at all or getting independence but having to make a lot of concessions.
I don\'t want to sound harsh, but this is how I see your choices. Personally I\'d love to see you get your independence to bring more diversity in this game, but it\'s not up to me. You have to make that happen yourselves.
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