Editorial on Germany
BaronVanZon
A lot has been said, shouted and written already on the Dutch-German conflict. As a new player, lacking the history and hindsight of it all, I asked around. It struck me that a lot of the answers I got were different. And a lot of people didn't quite know. So I decided to do some investigative journalism and simply...ask the Germans for their viewpoint.
My first conversation partner is an official one: KTTRS, the German president.
Mister president, thank you for having me. What exactly triggered the hostilities between Germany and the Netherlands, according to you?
The hostilities were triggered by ArcanicMinje a government official from your country. He made some incredibly distasteful comments about Germany and our beloved ESC-singer. Germans are a very emotional and compassionate people, so naturally we take comments like that very seriously.
This is also the reason why we have to demand a public apology from ArcanicMindje. I would probably have to face a revolution in eGermany if I stop the war without a sincere apology from him.
Moreover, we can of course use the fruit-bonus in NNL and it's just nice to have some war to get TP points/have something to do.
What is Germany's official policy on this matter? Do you want peace or press on with war?
Well we don't want a complete and ongoing occupation of your country nor ongoing war. I think that's something which could ruin a country and I wouldn't even want enemies to face something like that. However as I promised healthy apples to my voters Germany has to keep NNL for some time.
We Germans care for our health and of course one of the most German foods is an apple. Unfortunately we are cut off from our own apple supplies in Saarland which means we have to borrow them from you guys.
This is also the reason I had to propose another NE today, because I can't risk a threat to our apple supplies and some of you guys (probably Arcanic) started a RW in NNL.
So what is more important, the apology or the apples?
Should there be an apology, would you relinquish any hold on Dutch domain?
It's unfair to ask this first question question, nearly impossible to decide there, but if you would hold a gun to my head I'd probably say the apology from the ecriminal arcanic. A sincere apology would be a vital step. However the recent AS on Denmark didn't really help you there.
Germany has many resistance wars on his hands right now, wouldn't it be better to close a few fronts? Does Germany have the funds for this war?
RWs are no problem. I can understand that people want to fight for their country and liberate it. But at some point you have to face the harsh reality. Germany had to realize this as well with her neighbours Hungary and Poland. If we lose a critical RW we can just start another NE, and if there should be an important battle for us or our allies we can just completely ignore the RW (like we did when Australia attacked us). We don't have to spend money on the war , so yes definitely.
What is the opinion of the average German on this matter?
To be honest the average German just doesn't care that much. To have some war/fun is of course cool.
I asked my congress about this war before and everyone was in favour of attacking. Of course as also some people from NL noticed there are a few people who disagree on attacking a smaller nation / former ally. But tbh these people will show up when we start any war, start preaching/write one article and then vanish again and be inactive.
Our active player base has been in favour of the war. But I think no one wants to have a completely occupied NL that's obvious.
Thank you for this interview.
Certainly a politician's answer. While the German president stresses the insult was the key element, he does admit fruit resources has alot to do with the whole matter. He does claim the war has alot of backing, but is this true?
To find out, I take to the street and poll a few random active players. I asked them two simple questions:
1) Is the war between Germany and the Netherlands about resources (fruit) or politics?
2) Would you like the war to end or continue?
A few reactions:
"It's about resources and "fun". Germany wouldn't start the war if it wouldn't benefit a bit. Also the war wouldn't have take place if the enemy would have been stronger. I was against it from the beginning. I prefered other countries as a target. Because we never really had any issues with the Netherlands. In the past we both suffered from the Polish suppression. Germany and the Netherlands should stick together."
"I am not that good informed about the goverment, but I can gladly state my opinion: I think the war itself was a) to do something against the boredom and b)to get that fruit resource. The reason we attacked the dutch were that they are our neighbour and we have no real other possible targets and that there seems to be some argument between our government and some dutch people. I don't really care, but I think it should end soon with us keeping Northern Netherlands for the time being. I am just weak D1 fag, so it is not really my turn to comment on this topic since I will not be able to do much damage."
"In the end it is both - and it escalated a bit between the involved parties.
Resources:
-(Fruit)
Politics:
- NSPP and its missing activity
- Germany left the NSPP
- No help for NL when Germany started the invasion
- (failed) AS by Australia in connection with their stupid propaganda (Chile+Wipe)
So, in my eyes this war shows the miserable situation of the NSPP and its foundation, therefore it shows a big political problem. Why? Because some of those partners weren't "actively" interested in the future of the NSPP (and I'm not talking about Germany/Germark) - and that's what happens if you don't maintain your partnership. The question is: Does NL want to end this war. We clearly stated our (fair) demands."
"Well, as we explained in length already in several articles and comments and in a meeting with your current government, the issue about the insults is obviously not only a political but also a psychological one. The German soul is very sensitive and was hurt deeply by the horrible comments that were made about our allegedly disastrous result at the ESC. Our people were looking to the government to do something about the disrespectful behaviour and outrageous slander. In order not to lose his face, KTTRS, our beloved President, left the NSPP and answered the affront with a righteous declaration of war. Keeping the fruitregion is a justifiable compensation for the dishonest behaviour and unjust damage done by your unethical government. An exemplary proposal for a peace treaty was proposed and cruelly answered with an immoral sneak attack on our unionpartner Denmark. I believe that explains our stance in detail.
If your government asks for a meeting and has true intentions of working on a solution, you will find that I am always willing to give peace a chance."
In my opinion, it is indeed about the fruit resources. Germany lost Saarland and needed a region to keep producing. There was a Dutch region nearby and they knew they could take it. Of course there will have been some diplomatic incidents, in fact, I'm quite sure of it, but the question is if they have not been turned into a means to and end.
It makes me wonder if a different solution had not been possible, for example to call on The Netherlands to reconquer Saarland. Maybe that was not possible, I do not know.
What I do know is Germany will try to keep the north as long as they can and the war is far from over. We will see what elections bring in both countries and if a new political course might emerge.
If not, the war is far from over.
Signed,
Baron Van Zon
Your Chief editor
Disclaimer: This is an editorial, meaning it gives my own opinion, not that of my country, my government or even all of the eDutch. I left out the names of the people who gave a quick reaction, to safeguard their right of privacy.
Comments
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Nice journalism again!
Very nice!
I do not agree with the things said by the German CP, but that's too much for one comment 😉
I don't really expect people to agree, even not all Germans agree. That's why it's an editorial...it's all about opinions 🙂
I know, and you did a great job with your research 😉
Honestly, the BS about Eurovision isn't even funny at this point... not that it was funny to begin with.
Anyways, great work! I really enjoyed reading it. 🙂
Yeah, it's nice to have a view of the opinions on their side.
I don't believe in the Eurovision story. Really, if Germany should be annoyed at any nation for ending with 0 points, I think they should look to RL Austria, a country that traditionally gives them points. Why not in this case, but because their song was really so terrible? PS: I'm not a Eurovision fan, so I haven't watched, and I have no clue what song Germany had this year. So I truly cannot comment on the quality of the song itself, only on things that seem to be deducible from the results.
And honestly, the Netherlands also got a big disappointment from the Eurovision this year... So I think we should actually feel more united because of Eurovision. Instead of be at war...
Taking the fruit region without paying any rent, not even paying back the taxes, that is a worse act of oppression than we eventually got from Poland and got from Hungary from the start. At least they paid back the taxes. If we truly want to be friends, I would consider a rent agreement an important aspect. Taking without giving anything in return definitely is not friendship. And if they wanted a rent agreement they could have contacted us before this war... That's the way of real friends. Probably they would have had what they wanted a lot cheaper in that case. Because now they've definitely damaged our relationship.
So I'm looking forward to a fair proposal from Germany. Not like those proposals they have come up with so far...
It's good to see by the way that except for their CP, almost all Germans agree that this was only about our fruit region...
So what I'm expecting is a proposal that is only about the fruit region. And preferably an apology for not contacting us first about a rent proposal but starting a war right away. If they can explain what ArcanicMindje said that upset them, probably they can have an apology of him as well. But to be honest, so far I have not seen any convincing explanation why his post was so bad that it demanded an immediate war.
Kinda sure that's completely representative mate.. Why wouldn't it, right?!?!?!?!?!
Personally, I liked the German singer. She had nice apples 😉
"Taking the fruit region without paying any rent, not even paying back the taxes, that is a worse act of oppression"
That wasn't our offer.
I've seen two German offers so far.
Both of the current offers were unacceptable because they included
- "Apology from Arcanic Mindje" as one of the terms, while lacking any apology from the German side.
- no rent for the region. Just a free give-away basically.
The first one even involved us paying a huge sum of money, more than our monthly gov budget (our monthly tax income)...
Regarding the taxes: I've seen "no reparations" in the second proposal, also suggesting we won't be getting back the taxes you take during the war.
I guess you have been misinformed then. The demands we negotiated in their final form were:
An apology from ArcanicMindje (NOT the Netherlands)
The region Northern Netherlands.
No hostilities against us
Repayment of taxes
Which is as reasonable as it gets, I do not know what set of demands your CP showed your congress or the logs from the meeting were edited. But what I am stating is fact.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o5yulmy8iMR6KqeAJPkJmyQehyB3-TlxbLVAqHkC_Nw/edit
>Last edit 8 days ago. The evening of our meeting.
To quote broersje on our forum "As far as I'm concerned, Arcanic can apologize if he wants to. But that shouldn't be a part of any peace deal as his comment was not an expression of our nation in the first place."
So it should be clear to your that these demands are already based on their very first point unreasonable. This is not something eNL has any authority to agree to. We cannot force our citizens to say things. Although we may seem like a dictatorship in-game, we're in the core still a democracy with our democratic values!
And no rent for the region is also something that I'd consider highly odd for a rent agreement, which is basically what you are proposing...
So to summarise: whoever gave you the impression that these terms are reasonable is totally mistaken. Our congress more or less literally tore this proposal to shreds when we saw it.
The version we saw by the was was:
"- NNL to Germany, taxes paid
- No reperations
- Apology from Arcanic"
The Repayment of taxes in your formulation does sound like we get back the taxes you took from us during the war. That would be slightly more reasonable, but still you miss out on the other points of criticism.
completely overlooking demand nr2?
yes..odd..reparations ? how can this be overlooked
iirc ilphen had a talk with whoever from NL government after those demands were presented to Congress and he said we might be able to drop those 15k.. However, things can't be that badin NL.. I mean you just spent 10k on an Australian MPP. :^)
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Also I really can't see how anyone would think you're in the position to demand a rent on top of the tax refund since, well, you were defeated. And we could just keep the region. It still seems you guys took those RWs we intentionally lost a bit too serious.
And finally, why would anyone pay back taxes generated during war with no kind of treaty present? Nothing signed talking about refunds = no refunds, that's not a difficult concept is it.
Yea that is correct, the demand has been dropped. I did not want to edit it out of the document so you could see the original proposal. But shortly after the meeting (within an hour) our government agreed to drop it.
Well. It seems we are getting a choice to either
- maintain the war. Meaning we haven't lost, you will also be busy militarily, worthless to your allies, and you screwed up our friendship.
- accept the ridiculous proposal, and lose in all aspects.
That doesn't seem like a hard choice...
Any serious treaty between friendly nations should be a win-win situation.
A win-lose treaty is possible between enemies, if the situation becomes desperate. But as long as we both claim we don't want to be enemies, there is no way that the treaty can be accepted...
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I'm sorry but we are not the ones that should have to come up with proposals.
I'm perfectly fine to have the region without any proposals at all, but I doubt it's something you guys should want.
Regarding KTTRS's statement above this comment:
I doubt Germany wants a lasting war. I think our most recent RW has already demonstrated that we can be an annoyance to them.
And since that RW was not even particularly well planned, I'm sure we can be even more annoying...
Well done article.
but are you really honest, or this song is one excuse, because egermany less of activities just saw eNL like a good target to have fun? If it's about one song, you are not fair-play to punish a nation for comments from a player lvl?
I don't really see this answer. i lost the newspaper about that, but i saw you egermany was searching a little country in their border to have fun.
Again, a very nice article!
good article & nice read 🙂
thks & keep up the good work 🙂
Why didn't Germark call upon the Netherlands to rent the region?😁 That might have been a solution too, better then to make a allied neighbour into an enemy imo.
Well maybe because its not only about this region?
Congrats you made me giggle.
You call Ilphen a liar then?
ilphen "Yea that is correct, the demand has been dropped. I did not want to edit it out of the document so you could see the original proposal. But shortly after the meeting (within an hour) our government agreed to drop it. "
@Alex: the dropping part was about the 15k CC that we were supposed to pay to Germany according to the proposed treaty in the google doc he links.
So basically the main difference between the proposals Germany sent us was only that we had to pay less each time. Initially 50k, then 15k, then 0.
But in all version Arcanic had to apologise, which is something eNL has no right to agree to, making it impossible to sign an agreement.
And in all versions NNL becomes German, without rent being paid, which also is a weird start point.
In short: KTTRS says that them needing Arcanic's apology is the reason for this war instead of just negotiations. Getting the region without rent, which definitely would not be in a peaceful rent agreement, is just an unintended side effect of their proposals.
Which makes especially clear that we cannot agree to that part either. Germany wanted a fair agreement, so we will not accept a proposal without rent being paid for the region.