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There being more than enough activity to have a full run dualistic system is a joke. It would only legitimize the same people (you) being Chairman all the time, seeing the last numerous election choices for Chairman, and taking away any choice for our Congress. I wish there was the activity to have a full 40-person Congress overseeing matters and the whole shebang but sadly it is not. In fact, population numbers are exactly the same as when we relaxed that rule.

Also, please stop feigning concerns over neutrality over the rightfully - by Congress, not Government nonetheless - Chairman! The debates and votes are opened and Congress can do its job and that's what matters. And if we want to talk about political opinions.. Well then we have some people that despite not being in Government are far from ''neutral'' too (And that is fine) 🙂

Also: Give me one example of a Chairman being in Government that serves as some kind of executive puppet. As far as I know, i.e. Janty F has fought the Government to death if it concerns the rights of Congress vis-a-vis the Government (see e.g. the Portugal deal discussion). That's the entire definition of being neutral: Being able to follow the rules of a post without other interests affecting it. A skill that should be appreciated in any position.

BTW, I would support this proposal if there was a guarantee that there would still be a choice of Chairman left. If it results in just one faction being the only choice (which is rather likely seeing the last many votes) then this proposal hurts the position more than - in your eyes - is done now.

Is there something in the proposal that restricts it to just one “faction”? No there isn’t. The only new restriction would be governmental members.

There are more than enough persons in enl that are able and might be willing to run, but perhaps didn’t want to run against a party member.

If any of those "persons" (people !) want to run next term, they have my full support and my help available. Something I have voiced many times over the past months to various Congress members and party presidents alike, while looking for my adequate replacement, who I know will maintain the high standrds of office established during last few months 🙂 .

@blackpatje: In theory yes, but you know this game well enough that in practice that won't be the case and that this proposal would just limit the choices Congress can have and the activity of the Chairman position, which we both don't desire. About there being ''more than enough persons in eNL'' able to run; I'm on the other side and I can tell you there are not many interested in putting in the time 🙂 Removing the few that do want to out of the equation seems hurtful to all of us..

I will translate this proposal to the public:

"We at Iron and Wine have been losing CoC elections constantly, because our candidates are bad, and all our MoNCs were voted own, because they made no sense. The only way, how we can "control" Congress again (CoC actually has no real power to "control" Congress anyway, it is basically only a helpful guide, because Congress members can open debates and votes on their own, as long as they follow the law), is to remove all good candidates, so our candidates are the only one left."

Mind you, this proposal comes from a person, who wanted legitimate votes of Congress Members to be invalidated, because they were different from his own vote.

Personally, I would be glad, if we had more diverse candidates for CoC position, or if some CoCs of the past wanted to return (looking at you, ElGorro 😉 ). Unfortunately, due to frequent abuses some Congress Members (usually those, who lost elections) tend to display towards CoCs, the position is not really attractive to many.

Not a useful addendum given real circumstance of The Game. Nice idealism though.

II. Article 3.5 and Article 5.3 are more than adequate to resolve any meaningful conflicts of interest.

Actually, to make it ideally adequate (in my opinion), President should not be able to vote in CoC elections.

But then again - the game allows CP to vote on his own impeachment (!), so this would just create irregularity, which is not logical in terms of game logic.

Taking away my vote! Technically CP voting on many issues indeed seems out of place if it's solely a Congressional issue (instead of i.e. a war proposal). But it would be overly complex and ambiguous to not just follow the game allowing CP a vote in everything. Not to mention that often the CP is a former Congressmember 😃

Gonna vote yes if you add "Candidates for CoC cant be a candidates again in next 12 month"

More than enough activity? Jacen.Solo please give me a count of active citizens in eNL, I would be really interested to see this figure. We all know that this place looses players all the time and we should be happy that eNL has even this small active group of citizens we have.
I read between the lines your fustration of not being elected into CoC position, well there must be a reason you dont get enough votes (wonder why 😃 )

No thank you. If you want a Chairman, dont earn it by excluding others by Law. Just another example why I dont vote for the odan collective.

Fully agree. There should be a separation gov and congress. D

If we had a little more population I would even support a no gov member should be in congress.

How about outright proposing banning all parties except yours from Congress, since this would give you the majority you aim at?

Atleast we now know, what YOU would really do, if you became CoC. So much for "neutrality" and "democracy"...

How about you debate in a normal fashion? That might restore some trust in you.

And what would i do?
Also IRL the government also doesn’t have a hand in voting on the final laws for example. That’s up to a separate senate.

Pointing out the aim of the proposal is not "normal"? In that case, the proposal is faulty on its own...

"Restore some trust" - you never had one to begin with, and based on results of CoC elections, you do not have a lot of trust amongst your colleagues on your own. If you need any help or advice with that, please do let me know - maybe your trust can be still build up, if you start now 🙂 .

Also, this is a game, not real life Netherlands. Else our legal system would look totally different for sure, on that I agree.

If you don’t understand something perhaps you should ask. Because it’s clear you don’t understand the proposal.

Somehow, I think I understand the intent of the proposal just fine.

Just like I understand the meaning of "trust", for that matter 😉 .

I'm sorry, but this statement shows you play an entirely different game than the rest of us. Even at our ''peak'' activity there was barely a division between Government and Congress, let alone ''no gov members in Congress''... I doubt that even ever happened in what eRep country whatsoever. We are playing in eNetherlands.. Not in RL Binnenhof 😃 .

er worden weer heel veel aanvallen gedaan die absoluut niet nodig zijn.... maar ja blijkbaar is dat geen probleem voor veel mensen, want oh nee het kwade I&W doet een voorstel.

waarom zou het niet toestaan van regeringsleden op de positie betekenen dat er geen keuze meer is? er zijn nog steeds meer dan genoeg mensen in dit land die actief zijn die niet in de regering zitten.

de starter van het debat is ook geen kandidaat geweest in recente voorzitter verkiezingen, zoals beweerd wordt.

zal maar niet eens beginnen hoe onze huidige voorzitter zich alweer heeft laten zien in dit debat...

bedankt voor de waarschuwing

Ah, de vermoorde onschuld 😂😂

nu komt de aap uit de mouw

Based on the facts our activity level are considerable quite low especially unable to fill congress, a separation at the present time would not work out especially there is only a few of us that is willing to commit on doing gov work. Past governments had offered new blood overtime since our decline in activity and using separation at this present time will go against our goals of achieving a fully functional state.

I see no reason not to allow the dual role, if someone is willing to do the job fairly, let them.

If they act bias or abuse the role I'd hope all of congress would hold them accountable and seek their immediate removal.

You just need to look at the replies by the current CoC to see what he is like.

What has his personality got to do with him being democratically elected to CoC or from him being a member of a democratically elected government. The discussion is the ability to do the job.

If his behaviour is so bad as you seem to be alluding to, congress as a whole favour him over somebody else, what does that say about your parties candidate? Maybe focus on that.

Some people clearly want to remove CoC legal Congress rights, because they dislike his Congress member opinion being voiced 😉 . Democracy and freedom of speech at it's finest!

I would like to remind you the words of your collective master, Dirk, whom you always defend so much: "CoC can have his own opinion." As CoC I merely exercise the same right. The fact my opinion differs from yours is not a valid reason to remove me, or anyone else, as a Chairman of Congress. As long as the Chairman works for entire Congress, and does not ignore proposals and voices of certain Congress members (like some of your party members used to do, when they held the position).

Also, I do not see CoC as position of political power, which might be abused to promote personal ideas. I see it merely as a helping guide for those Congress members, who require an assistance. I know you prefer the first, "brute force" approach, but seems majority of Congress prefers the second one. So sorry for that - and as adviced above, maybe look for making a change in your own personality first 🙂 .

Dat is het probleem MrNastyPants. de CoC wordt niet gekozen op vermogen om de baan goed uit te voeren, hij wordt gekozen omdat mensen hem mogen.

Een CoC moet het congres in goede banen leiden, zorgen dat moties en stemmingen de wetten volgen.

De huidige CoC heeft al laten zien dat hij dit niet kan, door oa. in officiële debatten talen te spreken die volgens onze wetten daar niet horen, andere congresleden hier ook niet op aan te spreken en in de laatste stemronde meerdere ongeldige stemmen te tellen als geldig.

Het staat congresleden vrij om te stemmen hoe ze willen maar als de keuzes op een stembiljet bijvoorbeeld het volgende zijn:
1. peter
2. john
3. karel

en congresleden brengen hun stem uit op pjotter of appel dan kunnen die gewoon niet geteld worden als geldig.

It shows what you want odan. You want ''the law'' to decide the opinion of Congress, because you insinuate that currently Congress only votes for Chairman based on irrelevant reasons (quite a statement to make towards your colleagues!) unlike yourself.

The reasons you list for Janty being a bad CoC are lies. At least be honest about it and provide details when you make accusations. You have yourself started making the ''language'' joke in Congress by speaking Dutch after years of not doing so out of xenophobia. Now others are the issue when they have a joke with you in a foreign language, yeah right 😃.

The Chairman is not supposed to dictate the votes of Congress. If the intention of the vote is clear, it should count. Current society, seeing the voting results, do not wish to return to a situation in which Chairman arbitrarily strikes down votes and what not because someone said ''Njet'' instead of ''NO'' or used ''J/S'' instead of ''Janty F / Shawtyl0w''. We have better things to do for the eNetherlands and hope that you will join us one day in achieving that as well!

Sounds unnecessary to me, to limit our active players this way. But hey, I'm just a citizen. Who's looking forward to that really interesting legislation you've been working on. Like warsies. Don't we have any decent damn enemies? 😃

I'm'not convinced we have enough active politicians to make this work without them rotating in the current political situation. Seems to me that it would just lead to two different people being CoC forever if the current pattern continues.

The proposed was is very similar to what it was in the past. I'm not against this law but I believe we don't need it in place.

I'd rather support the people currently losing the CoC elections to join the government team and use their position as politician to create a better name for themselves. this would mostlikely result in a more favourable outcome.