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MaryamQ did a damn good job she constantly tried to communicate with citizens about decisions, most of the time getting their opinion first before making decisions. She tried pleasing everyone and the majority of the time she did, a hard task for anyone pleasing the masses who often oppose each other.

Would you like the government to announce ATO efforts to the public so PTOers can know? Their are some things that need to be kept in the government, you should know that as a former CP.

The MoF program was a effort to increase activity and reward those who were active. It is absurd to tie the program completely directly with MaryamQ , sure she did support it but in the end CONGRESS VOTED YES ON IT, that is right ... congress the people who represent Belgium, our community.

known PTOers are still in the country she has done more than others in terms of ATO efforts she used her personal experience and what she thought and her cabinet thought were the best for Belgium, choices that some like yourself disagree on.

So before you go criticizing people and calling her term "horrible" look back at your own words ,A CP is a hard job and she did the best she could and her cabinet did the best they could in improving Belgium. But of course I am glad to see you all of a sudden becoming active now instead of voicing your opinion before hand. Secondly her term also brought a lot of improvements to Belgium , but since you seem to know her term inside and out I am sure I do not need to list them. Thanks for your time

And while I am at it yes I do respect your opinion, but I find this insulting not just to Maryam but to myself any CP knows their cabinet supports them and they function as a unit so besides from insulting MaryamQ you insulted everyone involved with voting yes to the MoF program, her cabinet and other . Have a good day I am done with my rampage

Then you were wrong; what do you want me to say?
I'm not insulting. I'm even respectful for saying I don't like it. Don't try to reverse the trend. You feel insulted by a random opinion that's it.

That's what i'm saying: the congress said yes without the proper information. Or at least it's my believing.
Don't get me wrong, i've a huge respect on her decisions; especially for the wipe thing. But as I told her the communication was just bad.

Moreover you could have spoken of the situation right after the wipe. Hidding it was childish.

1) she didn't communicate, she LIED to the public. Small nuance.
2) A MOF program like that doesn't increase the activity as most of the money goes to already active citizens. I doubt you will find 1 person who became active that otherwise wouldn't have been active. The real reason for this MOF giveaway was "Bread and games" to launch NSLP's campaign.
3) She didn't made any effort to deal with the PTO. If she did, she would be talking to them.
4) I don't think you can speak of a "PTO-effort" when you have 5 foreigners making a lot of noice

A good president and she did what is needed. Bravo and you earn some well deserved rest.

She'll never rest. She's MaryamQ \o/.

Every CP will take her in his/her government (me the first).

"No efforts were made toward youngsters"
* ABC supplies were increased
* ABC commander has funds to organize additional events for ABC members
* citizens are able to convert their BEF into Gold with the state
* the Hand-Out was designed to give everyone a big amount of tickets to start with: just by working, training and fighting daily, you could obtain 65 tickets. In average, people earned only 30 tickets more than these 65 they had almost guaranteed. If you know that they still could join the forum and make a few posts there, there were 15 additional tickets to earn and since there are eBelgian MU's that are open for everyone, you could have had another 5 additional tickets. So, without any requirement for being old or extremely addictive to this game, a person that just started playing this game could have had 85 tickets. The program indeed rewarded activity, but youngsters had in this program much more benefits than you claim.

If you take this information and you combine this with the still existing program's for youngsters: like gold loans for companies, training centers and training contracts, citizen packs, ... your claim that no efforts were made towards youngsters is just false.

Furthermore, all expenses were agreed upon by congress. The government only acts according to the laws in eBe and every citizen, including you, can provide new ideas in the congress debate area.

About ABC supplies: I can't see that on your spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuNTC4vABk4-dGVxYk4xVFAzbnUxRXdDcnk2SGVGa3c&usp=drive_web#gid=0

What are those so called changes for new comers? I don't care about the commander getting more funds but what has been done to promote them? Because in early ages it is a lot about communication and learning. Things have been done and I thank a lot Gyantse for all his good work. But we can't say something special has been done.

All programs you quoted are already existing programs and regarding to the number of loans it has not been well advertised and didn't reach newcomers hears.

As said, expenses were agreed by the congress but we both know how it works and were restricted to forum voting (which I respect) but without giving overall numbers like: it will cost more than 1/4 or all eBE assets.

As for me, I am not CM anymore; just stepping in right now since there are no congress at all. And eBE should run well without people checking on cp/gov work. More specifically when it's such an experienced team.

I see that more has been done for the 'youngsters' in MaryamQ's term than in yours.
I see that you ask for more effort for youngsters, but you don't care that the ABC, the main eBelgian way to help newer citizens, receive more funds.
You say that additional things should be done, however when they are mentioned to you (BEF-Gold exchange, the new opportunity for ABC commander to do events) you falsely claim they existed before.

It is always easy to stand on the sidelines and comment, however I see that MaryamQ's government has done an effort for 'youngsters', something you deny. It is true, more communication towards the citizens about the possibilities that eBe offers for them is ALWAYS needed, but at least, the MaryamQ-government has worked for the youngsters and done everything it could, taken in mind the low amount of citizens willing to help constructively.

You are unhappy that the eBelgian congress agreed with some non-recurrent expenses that lower our extremely large treasury and that is your right. But there is no reason to put therefore lies (such as 'no efforts made') or blatant misrepresentations (implying that non-recurrent expenses are recurrent expenses)

BTW: if you would have PM'd me or checked the numbers, in the last 20 days the eBe Treasury declined with 633k BEF and 906 gold, what is the equivalent of 821k BEF or 4070 gold. The major chunck of this (500k cc and 640 gold) is by a non-recurrent program that will cost the treasury in total 500k cc and 750 gold.

I agree with the effort for youngsters (not what is really needed but still).

And i'm not lying, it's my point of view that's all. You did what you did. I didn't like it. No less, no more. No need to argue on this. You won't change my feeling: opinion have been tricked and does it worht the spending?

Blindly I'd say: yes, ok maybe it is worthy (or maybe not). But my ebelieving is that people where voting without the proper information.

Wipe and huge expenses.

I don't care whether these were good and necessary or not. It has arguments against and in favor, everyone has its opinion. It's not my point.

But what I'm pissed about is a democratic concern. These two things are mighty important matters having huge consequences for eBelgians, these are not just mere laws with little influences. And I feel like Maryam already had these ideas in mind before being elected. But during the elections... Not a word about these ideas. She just got elected with her name, with the trust the population has toward her. For such important matters, she should have expressed what she had in mind during the elections, in order for the citizens to vote knowing what to expect.
(and no, I'm sorry, that would not have changed as much in PTOers' plans as you say)

And maybe I would even have agreed with these two plans (wipe and expenses)... or maybe not, I don't know. But I voted like a blind man. And that is not correct. These have too important consequences to do it in the back of citizens.

The expenses in MaryamQ's term were all covered by eBelgian Congress votes.
It is true that for the expenses no in-game consultation was done. However the citizens vote for a congress that decides about the budget (in accordance with eBelgian traditions, according to ingame regulations, the CP is free to decide whatever they want with the money), so I think your comment about democratic concern for the expenses are unfounded.

You should convince congress members that they should consult more opinions in-game before they vote, instead of being pissed at the MaryamQ-government for the expenses.

"You should convince congress members that they should consult more opinions in-game before they vote."

You're implicitly agreeing that votes where made without proper information for congress and/or full congress awareness.

Congress was fully informed before voting.

The comment about consulting in-game opinions, is a suggestion of me towards Jeiry, so his personal feeling that for the expenses there is a democratic concern, would be reduced.

Fact is: No congressmember had the opinion that before voting (s)he should contact jeiry and ask about Jeiry's opinion. If Jeiry finds that undemocratic and want that to change, he needs to convince the congressmembers of this instead of blaming the government.

I'm talking here purely about the financial part

NLSP, what I meant here is that if Maryam had that financial proposal in her mind before being elected, it is not normal she did not inform about it during the campaign (I'm just talking about important matters).
No matter the congress accept it or not after : that is a too simplistic view (way too theoretical). Why ? Because convincing the population to vote for you and convincing the congress to pass a law are two different things, and some President candidates could avoid talking about it during the elections on purpose (fearing not to be elected), than pass it more easily on the congress. And for important matters, that way of doing things is not normal at all. For important matters (and if you have it in mind before being elected obviously), looking at it this way, it's kinda undemocratic because it's tricking the population, even though the laws are fully respected with a congress vote.

NB : I don't say this was Maryam's intention, but it could lead to such behavior, so it should be avoided.

And by the way : the people fearing PTOers should be the first to understand the danger of somebody being elected without informing about the important laws that he's planning to propose to the Congress later on.

Actually, you are overestimating MaryamQ's ability to come up with money costing programs 🙂 I was the mean kid that had the idea for this program (and it got the support from our lovely CP), I had the idea exactly for 2 days before proposing it to congress, so she couldn't be aware of a 'MoF's Huge Activity Based Hand-Out and Lottery' during her election campaign.
I agree that if a CP-candidate has already such a plan during the campaign, he/she should speak about it. However, if congress votes about it, for me there is democratic oversight.

It is important to realize that the government executes laws and congress determines them and votes them. If you feel, as a non-forum visiting citizen, not enough informed by the debates and proposals in congress, it is in my opinion congress you should blame (an entity where I was a member of at that time) and not the government.

So speaking about the financial part, I understand your feeling. I agree that you have a legit demand for more communication, however I really feel that you remark should be aimed for congress and not for the government.
Once the program was approved (function of congress), it was executed (function of government) and imho you can't claim that there was not enough communication about the execution of the program with already 4 Government-articles written and one more coming your way. All these articles have been shouted as-well by multiple citizens/government officials. I don't see how much more communication about executing this program could have been done.

Were the specific plans for reducing the treasury in my mind before the election? No, so there was no way to communicate them. Was the general plan to reduce the treasury there? Yes. Did I feel a need to communicate it specifically? No. It was continuing a general trend extending back to the administration of JdlF himself, with the same MoF, and many of the ideas to distribute gold being JdlF's own. The major difference here is that his plans heavily favored state MUs. The plan this month, created by NLSP, who had the trust of both our governments, while it did give some advantage to membership in a state MU, also gave credit for many other forms of activity, all of which are available to all citizens. In my opinion the form this distribution took was much more democratic, and it was heavily advertised in game, even even had a tutorial provided voluntarily by Boklevski, so there was no real reason that all citizens could not participate. It was, after all, the citizens who did the work that put that money into the treasury. I would really like to see you name one single CP candidate who has ever told everything that s/he would do in the following month before it happened. JdlF did not. Even he didn't know it. And what use is this money sitting there when it could be in the pockets of players who then are more able to work, fight, train, and spend?

NLSP : "Actually, you are overestimating MaryamQ's ability to come up with money costing programs 🙂 I was the mean kid that had the idea for this program (and it got the support from our lovely CP), I had the idea exactly for 2 days before proposing it to congress"

-> Haha, ok, so I agree that my comments are not available if it happened this way.

Maryam : "I would really like to see you name one single CP candidate who has ever told everything that s/he would do in the following month before it happened."

-> You missed some points of my comments that I tried to emphasize. I never asked "everything" or such. I just complained here because of the importance of these matters and its long-term consequences on its citizens or on the core eBelgian treasury, that should not be treated as simple laws (such as a small change on VAT or any other stuff like that).

Truth is, i'm not really bothering about the expense. But people need to know the amount. And they do not know it.

I'm the first who sai😛 we need to lower the treasury. And I kind of feel the MoF massive thing was ok. which were not were the amounts. When I spoke about lowering the treasury, I meant while helping eBE at most. Obviously the MoF thing helps. But I can't see any long term effect or any strategy behind it. Lowering "just like that" is not really the way (in my opinion).

[And that's why I was so eager to pass a law granting more powers to BEA; the intend was to put missions and give golds once the player has reached some objective {but nobody cared about this law so it's just a random law}]

Also, I may be wrong but no reports were made regarding expenses. You have to look for the data to know it. Yes, me I know because I look everywhere. Others? That's the question.

While I love all those debates, the main questions remain:

-Was the congress and/or population well informed.

And more importantly:

-Was it worthy?

No and definately no

1 word (or two?) : baby-boom

What are we waiting for?

That will solve TO and the consequences.
That will solve economy issued.
That will generate a medium-term plan for eBelgium.

So, what are we waiting for?

I agree with this.

We are waiting for someone to handle it.

You'd be surprised, it is not that easy when you represent a RL country that has "only" 11 million citizens. But dtill the hardest part is: how are you going to make them stay?

Well Chihiroh, in argentina RL we are 40M and we have 2100 active players (i'm not counting what Plato says, because is full of multies and b*llshit). I saw spam with refer link every day in major RL newspapers. Maybe we are a little more crazy 😛
We have a RL journalist that make RL news about the game, every 10 days.

How to make them stay? Well, having better parties with ingame spammers and private social plans + gov social plans + every week propaganda in the media module. Also, having very active MUs, with good ingame propaganda, as well.

And more and more...

Wow, you really spurred a discussion now... My opinion about the expenditure of finances is that we can't blame only the Govt., the Congress approved everything that was spent. As for the ATO measures and the wipe I don't really have a concrete opinion. The general population was not/little informed about this and I guess they did what they thought was right given the info that they had...

Most used politicians know how to deal with the congress in such a way that you can achieve nearly anything you want unless strong politicians are in the opposition 😉.
Experienced ministers know that, it's never for nothing that some informations are not given or explained. One basic rule is: CM should be very worried when someone is asking for something without explaining everything.
On the other hand, trustfull gov should explain everything. The action and how it will affect everything.

agreed, the vast expenditure was pointless and silly. not a whole lot of benefit for such a huge cost. I would hope such unwarranted giveaways of hundreds, even thousands of bef to people who tbh didn't do a whole lot do not occur again.