[Derp] First Bank of the United States?
Derphoof
Not much really goes on in Shadow Congress. Unless there’s a major change in Foreign Affairs, spending, or peace to be signed, Congress really has nothing to do. Our budget is frozen, our wars continue, and the executive team is still working out our tricky place in foreign affairs.
However, that does not stop some from coming up with rather creative ideas.
Chickensguys’ latest proposal centers on the finances of this game. In a time when we are at war, with little income, finances are on the mind of many a congressman. Even in peacetime, many nations and players are concerned with how much money is at their disposal.
Now, before we go further, I urge you to approach this with an open mind. Don’t come at it with your preconceived notions of CG, or think of it through partisan lenses. Don’t come at this as Federalists, Sheep, or Constitutionalists. Rather, come as Americans and take the idea at its own value.
CG has proposed the idea of a Central Bank. This would be a new bureaucratic agency that has the power to raise money by issuing government bonds. Players could purchase bonds, backed by the US Treasury, which would be paid back with interest when the bond matures. The idea is that players could help grow the reserve and expect a profit returned to them, in due time. Just as well, the bank could give loans to players and countries who request them.
This would be a big undertaking, with numerous challenges.
The first is proving that the US Gov’t is a trustworthy entity to do business with. To solve that, I’d propose that we start off small with War Bonds to US Citizens only. Establishing trustworthiness with your own populace is a good first step. After all, why would foreign entities want to do business if your own citizens don’t trust you.
With war bonds, the gov’t could increase its reserves during these trying times, and start repayment when a certain amount of regions have been regained. After all, we need money to fight any modern war. While we aren’t starved for cash, extra money never hurts.
From there, the Bank could move on to dealing with foreign entities.
Issuing bonds to foreign citizens and countries would work the same way, with money being paid back over time, or with the maturation of a bond. Our only concern would be having the money to pay them back at the right time, and not defaulting on those debts. The trick would be finding a rate that appeals to players enough to invest in.
The only true logistical issue that CG’s proposal has, is loaning money out to citizen and governments. As admins stopped enforcing contracts long long long ago, there’s no way to enforce repayment of loans. So, in terms of encouraging repayment, there are few options. We may be able to create a tiered system of credit building, as debtors pay back frequently, so the bank “trusts” them to repay. We may simply have to keep a list of scammers to shame on a frequent basis for being delinquent… or both. There’s no easy way to solve this, and no simple way to ensure the bank doesn’t get scammed.
A banking system has merit, but will require quite an active staff to oversee its administration. However, with creative problem solving, most of these challenges could likely be overcome. We could build trust within the nation, and in the international community by building a reputable institution. In an age where the eUS needs to rebuild it’s reserves and it’s credibility, such a proposal (while lofty) may not be so crazy after all.
Comments
First for Creativity.
The first is proving that the US Gov’t is a trustworthy entity to do business with.
😃 😃 😃
A tough challenge, right? I’m sure if Germany started a bank tomorrow, people wouldn’t question its integrity.
Well since its erep and its always the CP having the power over national orgs i wouldnt trust any country.
Got to admit that the general idea is quite good although i dont get why you'd do it in the first place.
you say you got enough money so you dont need say holders. Why would you pay them back more if you dont need it? Doesnt make sense at all. So either thats a blatant lie or just very stupid.
Considering the mess with your taxrates which has been going for quite a long time which led multiple companyowners to stop producing doesnt really make me think that my investment would be safe.
We've done this before. Way long ago, but not when contracts were enforceable.
And it failed. People lost a lot of money to "banks" in the past.
Without Admin enforcement, this is just a crap shoot.
I am pretty sure congress never voted for central bank..
There had been a number of successful banks and they were pre-contracts. Others were not. We also have done war bonds before at least once I recall, and at least the one I know about was paid back. Good idea / bad idea dunno on paper its great but with power changing hands often every month there are risks for sure.
President Jewitt ran War Bonds and Gaius Julius oversaw the program. Didn't fail.
Yup I remember that and was a case of success across administrations. In our current landscape can we do it again? Perhaps, just saying there are still risks just like in any lending situation. Only down side this round is the gold limit per day. We did discuss in cabinet and as I recall in congress a bit too about the possibility of needing to do war bonds again when this war first started. This bank idea however is more than just selling war bonds again its a much larger scope. As long as we are honest with depositors that risk is present (gov guarantees or not), and its managed well it could succeed.
i remember Gaius and Jewitt's project VERY well. Even more i remember Big Brother's. He was co-founder of this game... much more than just an admin. He wrote EXELLENT scripts and more. i discussed, with him, both his bank concept AND stock market.
Trying to incorporate them into our existing game was very difficult. He needed more player support.
SHOULD we, as players get something GOOD going it WOULD be supported by the Plato Foundation.
https://forum.erepublik.com/index.php?/topic/5644-plato-foundation-report-week-39/
Development of banking methodology is a well known and established process. There will be no problem with setting it up, we just need a person who knows risk assessment and it needs to be adjusted to erepublik reality. The idea itself is very good, but that institution should be fully independent (no politics involved). That is the only way to make it work. It would be able to give out loans or issue and sell securities no problem. Also, the mitigation of risk is a very well known process in erepublik. It has been done before. The only problem is that interest rate would be arbitrary, so the question remains what kind of a bank it would be? Like FED or ECB? Or for development or commercial? Or all of it? It could have a comprehensive business strategy etc.
All in all, it's completely doable, you just need politicians to agree and start working on it 🙂
Strider is right. Completely independent from politics otherwise it will be trouble. I would love to offer my services with this endeavor.
Interesting and feasible concept.
If you are selling bonds, what would you invest in to be able to pay back with interest?
Usually when you invest in a US Treasury Bond, you are investing in the eUS Gov’t. National Banks do this irl all the time. Essentially you’d be investing in the eUS gov’t with the expectation of a financial return on that investment.
I do understand how it works in real life. My question is about how the US gov would invest our money to pay back more.
You will give out commercial loans to the players, units, formations, countries, different interest groups etc. Whoever qualifies for a loan. What else could it do?
Honestly, I’m unsure how the US would invest to pay back more. Likely, we’d be paying out the interest out-of-pocket with the tax revenue we get in-game. I don’t see how this is actually profitable for the US, but rather gets the international community to invest in the nation’s success.
MY biggest problem is our governments LACK of funds, due to slack management of the economy.
right now the usa has no territories. so the usa government would use the money to fund war to get back full bonuses! which would increase the taxes and that tax increase would be used to pay off the debt.
if foreginers held the debt then in the future they would only get paid if usa stays free. so having a large government debt would be super beneficial to national security!
I like the idea of a bank, but as Freiheitskaempfer pointed out if it's national-org based the leadership would be changing every month, and frankly that would affect investors trust in that banking entity. If these loans will be long-term (longer than a single CP term) I think this would serve better as a separated entity from the CP/cabinet. Finance is my primary interest in the game, I've been slowly building up companies since I started playing to start making profit while spending very little RL money to do so. So I'd definitely love to see some kind of financial play introduced (since ERep does a fairly poor job of breathing life into it,) but it would really need to be done smartly.
I think that a long-term serving board of directors would handle the money, as opposed to a CP and the Orgs. The eUSA already operates a Congressional Budget Office, which holds most national money in non-org accounts. It’s worked for years and has served as a safeguard against a CP who might try to take all the money in the org.
gotta say that this will most likely not work at all. While not a bank, I did participate in the Stock Market that arose quite some time ago. Took some leave from the game for IRL reasons, and the whole thing "crashed", the guys running it left the game, and everything got lost that was invested in it. I assume that the same thing will happen with this
Assuming we have a responsible board, this wouldn’t happen. If anyone goes missing, they’d just be replaced. Since the eUS Gov’t exists in- game and in perpetuity, the eUS can’t simply crash and cease function. The only way this program would stop is if Congress closes it and repays investors, or if the game actually shuts down.
so im assuming that the plan is to have a citizen hold all the cash, if so and they stop playing and the citizen becomes "dead", then all those funds are lost. What would be the contingency plan for that happening?
not that i think this is a bad idea, im just wondering what the thought process is for this thats all. ive seen similar things happen in the past, thats all.
A few points in response to the comment. 1) eUSA has a very stable government, I don't think our CBO has ever been robbed. 2) Our Congress actually cares about the rule of law and passed 10 years of precedent. Point 1 & 2 show we are trustworthy with our commitment. 3) If something ever did happen, eUSA would recover but our commitment to the success of the bank would still stand 4) based on the proposal, loans would be done to countries and the amount we are loaning would be based on the level of trust we have with that nation. Are we really saying a country like Poland, that burns 200k in cos for us frequently, is not trustworthy enough to receive a loan from us?
The primary purpose of this is not a money-making venture, ideally, we break even. A successful trustworthy banking system in eUSA, offers certain perks from cash on hand to an increased global standing. It is something we could actually do and receive a certain amount of flexibility.
As many know, i too regard you as a "father of lies"; however... anyone with a brain can see you are a VERY smart person. i might know more about eRep economy than has ever been known, BUT reading your comment made me rethink my position. Starting a bank SHOULD START at the National level.
As you and others here have suggested, our treasury seldom has surplus. That MUST be corrected BEFORE opening a bank. Risk must be managed. The budget must be the base line.
Banking is all about trust. That this idea was put forward by a very untrustworthy individual with a history of double-dealing, rule-breaking and such is problematic, in my view.
Criticize the idea, not the person. But you are dishonest and pretend to be PQ, so I digress.
And there you have it. The father of lies.
" US Gov’t is a trustworthy entity" lol
NO, just no...especially not if CG is promoting this.
Need more of a reason https://www.erepublik.com/ez/article/an-analysis-of-t-jelle-bank-s-misleading-financial-statements-1298925/1/20
Just because CG promotes something, it isn’t a bad idea.
Also, that was a private operation trying to use stocks and shares to invest in individual businesses, as opposed to simple bonds through a government bank, correct?
In addition, my proposal in Congress is to create a board of directors to make decisions Claiming this idea is faulty because I suggested it is simply silly, you sound like Franklin Stone.
when u create a bord of directors --- you telling me is goind to fail. We need 1 man, a trastwarthy man like Ping and it is enogh.
The idea is pretty good, but since there are historical similar experiences that failed and brought a lot of players to e-poverty (check "Banca d'eItalia), I would suggest something different.
I would suggest a system of MINING CONCESSIONS guaranteed from the government.
Investor "A" gives to a reliable eUS citizen named player "B" the money to build a WAM company in one of his holdings.
Player "B" has an earning from WAM. The earning is divided this way: he keeps 2/5 of the total, gives to the investor 2/5 of the total, gives to the govt. 1/5 of the total. Whenever he wants player "B" can get out of the deal giving back the initial investment. If player "B" for any reason stops sharing the earnings regularly, e-dies or anything else, the eUS govt will pay back the investment to Investor "A". Of course, there can be sanctions for player "B" (for example related to the forum, to the congress or, if you reach some agreement, related to the supplies given from his Military Unit).
Investments made this way would benefit both the eUS citizens and the eUS govt on a mid or long term and could immediately make foreign money productive for the eUS.
Knowing the frequent changes in prices on the market a perfect calculation about how much time would take to get back the initial amount of money is pretty hard, but if I am not wrong, it could go from one to one and half year, depending on many factors.
https://www.erepublik.com/en/article/t-039-jelle-bankruptcy-notice-erx-amp-t-039-jelle-bank-closed-1619081/1/20
This was Aidens private little disaster. It was one big fraud. Comparing this to my proposal is pretty dishonest all things considered.
Yes, t'jelle was Aidens folly, but it was all tied into (not his later stockmarket deal) but the basic bank, tied into gov't bonds and other pre CBO concepts via the Federal Reserve. MM2 was pretty smart about raising money for our military in those days.
I bring this up because it speaks to the temptations of holding anyone's money and how if we cannot even speak to each other in a civil manner, how are we going to swap money based on anonymous trust.
A couple of Game mechanics issues. Back in the day the Admin would enforce contracts, this has been the case in maybe 8 years. Also, after Plato began to limit gold transfers to 10 gold/day, it seems that all banking dried up due to lack of flexibility.
Show me the Congressional vote to insure it
How about we get a real congress seated by securing a few states first!
The Federal Reserve Archives were all lost in the old forum disaster, but they insured the bonds, not the bank. As you know, it was all very questionable but I believe the bonds were all paid in full.
Indeed, the insurance instrument was on the bonds themselves not the bank. I recall them being repaid as well.
ooops "this has (NOT) been the case in maybe 8 years"
I would like to see it tried, are we talking loaning gold or currency to people/governments? Are we going to take deposits of gold and pay back gold with interest or currency with interest? If the bank got big enough could it introduce inflation to the game?
Warning: May be TDFG (Too Deep to Fully Grasp).
Well, quite the intersection of conflicting values, perspectives, recollections …
and desperation. The essential considerations (so disgustingly RL) are confidence and delivery. In all honesty, the first is, well, way FIRST. The second, depending on patriotic proximity, is variable. If we work it properly, the eUSA can gain the resources we need, while our investors get what they want from the deal.
Concerned and dedicated eAmericans will support a federal bank initiative, largely for nationalistic aspirations over personal profit. Outlanders will be drawn by confidence in what eAmerica can realistically deliver. For them, the question is can we deliver the unicorns and petitefors as promised.
Boiled down, deliver hope to eAmericans, and hard cash to the RoH. This MIGHT kickstart the resistance economy and maintain our shadow existence. As a patriotic eAmerican, that is enough for now. I support the concept. In terms of the proponent, well … the infinite monkey theorem applies. The Socialist Freedom Party remains our best hope.
Banks are used to fail in this game from 2007.
At least something different from real world.
Run on the bank! they dont have our money!