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LiquidIce left BLF for CP run.

Day 2,049, 11:24 Published in South Africa Bolivia by atrawall

LiquidIce was once a long-term member of IA.

She ran for congress under the BLF banner. I was diplomatic in my congressional elections as have I handled EVERY other situation since I've become PP.

Sure I changed the Party name but in the process I begged for activity. This congressional term is already super active and BLF members are strong participants.

So then I log in and see this:

You know what LiquidIce? This is a pure insult. It's not about MY support. It's about the support of the PARTY.

If you had asked to run I would have done a party poll on the forums as per usual.

You are running for CP and ALREADY not being diplomatic. I'm not even going to wish you luck. You don't deserve my best wishes. You've insulted me. I'm done with you.

EDIT: My behavior and words here was pure emotion as I was genuinely offended by the situation. I've cooled off after a few hours and remembered why I always take time on emotional issues to write appropriately. Thank you for reading. I still fully support Leon, but am not happy with the way I handled this.

-Claudio Kilgannon



Nickerball Day 2,049, 11:31

I have to agree with you Claudio, this was not the way to do something like this. I thought she would have at least asked for the party's support as well, but seems I was wrong too

atrawall Day 2,049, 11:36

I don't expect everyone to take it so personally, and I will continue a democratic poll.

Cody Caine
Cody Caine Day 2,049, 12:02

The SAGP pursued her to be our candidate as we needed someone to run against Leon for the sake of Democracy and not just letting him have it.

So her leaving could be on us too, and to be blunt, I support that pursuit. LI was the most agreed on option since I can't run as Consul.

atrawall Day 2,049, 12:12

If that's the case I shouldn't have been blamed. This is nothing against SAGP, I'm just insulted. Ill get over it I'm sure.

Cody Caine
Cody Caine Day 2,049, 12:18

Her personal doubt is her personal doubt, I hardly think its blame. Not like she left saying "well Claudio is a douche, so I got to find a new party to run me"

atrawall Day 2,049, 21:11

I think that would have actually been more excusable. Me being a douche doesn't question my integrity and honesty. It's simply a statement of fact.

LiquidIce Day 2,050, 02:14

My decision to move was based on a comment YOU made... I quote from Leon's platform comments, made by you:
Full support. Henock and I are working hand-in-hand (sexy) with the economy plan. Hope it will be a success!

To me that said you as PP of BLF promised your support to Leon. If a PP promises support, the logical conclusion that follows is that his party will give their support as well.

Elementary my dear Watson...

atrawall Day 2,050, 02:30

Promising MY support is different than promising the BLFs

Cody Caine
Cody Caine Day 2,049, 11:39

Dude, who can take you to be fair as a political figure, your word means jackshit. You make empty promises, and you waver back and forth on where you stand.

atrawall Day 2,049, 11:48

You and I have something in common? I've been nothing but fair.

Cody Caine
Cody Caine Day 2,049, 11:52

Excuse me? What empty promises have I made?

This article is basically an attack, because someone doesn't have faith in you. I don't have faith in your word either, after all you told me once you'd support me, but that didn't happen.

Your track record isn't the greatest, so I can completely understand why she'd feel, she wouldn't get support from the party.

atrawall Day 2,049, 11:57

I supported you a year ago when you decided to forget to run a campaign and even tell people to vote for you on Election Day. Last August during my only term as UP PP.

Also. I voted for you last elections despite supporting Miyagiyoda. I voted for you because I told you I would in that PM thread. I kept my integrity by supporting the candidate I believed in and my honesty by voting for you.

Cody Caine
Cody Caine Day 2,049, 11:59

And I'm supposed to know you voted me through the power of magic?
As for my campaigns, honestly never said I was good at them.

atrawall Day 2,049, 12:10

That's fair, and no, you shouldn't have known. I didn't hold it against you. We pushed you into that one. But I did remember.

Marmaduke IV
Marmaduke IV Day 2,049, 12:19

This is really not fair for SAGP or LI.

It's understandable that some poeple don't want a Lazokrat in power, especially given that just 2 months ago they did promise to PTO the country.

Competition is good for democracy. I look forward to some discussions, especially given that both candidates are running under anti-Brazilian platforms and right now it looks like Brazil is about to be wiped anyways, so we need some discussion on what really is going to happen this term.

Léon Reno
Léon Reno Day 2,049, 12:29

LI is not anti-Brazilian. She voted YES for Russian aggreement as well.

Marmaduke IV
Marmaduke IV Day 2,050, 11:24

Oh please. By the time the election comes, Russia will be gone and Brazil will be wiped. Your platform is based off of hatred for two countries that wont even exist in a week.

I hate Brazil too, but let's be realistic. We need plans for rebuilding and staying independent. Brazil is gone. Can't wage war with a ghost.

And economic adviser Hennock in his great economic summit has done nothing but promote the idea that eSA should whore out its regions for profit. I have been there throughout the entire summit and when asked about how to fund programs, this is what Hennock says:
"Yes, these programs are designed to redistribute the gold we get from rent among the populace. If we negotiate with Brazil to increase their rent as well as get Russia to give us just a little more, i think we will have enough to at least sustain these programs for a while."

Marmaduke IV
Marmaduke IV Day 2,050, 11:41

"But im calling for even MORE projects to be started regardless of whether we run into a deficit or not. I want us to play nice with Brazil and Russia so that they can fund these projects" -Henock

Wilpanzer Day 2,049, 12:36

Claudio playing the political card?

You've been insulted many times - directly and here Li differs from you on a political level and you slander her? Pure politics.

LiquidIce Day 2,049, 13:41

I fight as hard for eSA as the next person. I want eBrazil booted as well. Since the beginning I said that Brazil should be kicked out IN DUE TIME. I voted YES for eRussia so we could have allies in helping us defeat eBrazil, the way I understood it. I never claimed otherwise. I never lied about eRussia. I expected this. I took a calculated risk. I knew I would be flooded with pm's. I don't even take this personal. I will get hate mail as well as get slandered. So what. It will not change my mind. Does it matter if I do this under BLF or SAGP? No. I would have wanted it to be under IA. Sadly, IA is no more. No matter what Claudio tells you. He starts his article with saying I was a long standing member of IA. He is right. WAS... IA...

Wilpanzer Day 2,049, 13:49

BLF isn't IA Li, you know that as well as I. You left BLF, not IA.

LiquidIce Day 2,049, 13:55


atrawall Day 2,049, 21:10

BLF will return to IA after this term if that's what they wish. My goal was to create an active party, yet this did not happen as hoped. I even changed the party NAME and only had one complaint. It is the same party with a different logo and name.

Miyagiyoda Day 2,050, 23:14

The party outlives individuals. We've been here before.

LiquidIce Day 2,049, 13:42

Comment deleted

Wilpanzer Day 2,049, 14:12

This is actually hilarious.
Claudio jumps from one party to another, one responsibility to another and one loyalty to another with no repercussions all the time. Yet he is outspoken in pointing out people who commit the same "infraction" in a lesser degree.

Come on man. Mulder was better at this. Political smearing campaigns are based on issues with more substance - like that one time Mulder turned my "leaving eSA" joke on IRC into questionable legitimacy.

Léon Reno
Léon Reno Day 2,049, 14:16

What about you? Are you that loyal and honest to your friends?

Wilpanzer Day 2,049, 14:32

I try not to commit myself to hypocrisy. My loyalty though is rarely invested in people. As you I left UP when it was taken. I found SAGP to be a more viable option, it wasn't so radical, and now my loyalty still stays with SAGP. It extends to politics. Information is valuable, and unfortunately only a few people know the whole truth. We're all fed pieces of the big picture from which we make enemies/allies. I believe you've wrongly speculated much of my involvement in politics, but be it as it is. I don't have the energy to prove my legitimacy.

Wilpanzer Day 2,049, 14:33

and yes, I've been a hypocrite.

atrawall Day 2,049, 21:20

For the record, my beliefs have always been there. As have my loyalties. I left UP as the party didn't follow my "Anti Brazil nature" (Last September) The DB-PF did. Where I failed was creating a relationship between the 2 parties.

When I returned to UP, it was to help SM333ZA, something to this day I support. Leon and Henock and I have already spoken about what went wrong.

I then left BACK to DB-PF with hopes to facilitate a dissolve of the party that never happened, sadly.

Following that, I moved to IA as it didn't seem like there were any legitimate candidates and I didn't PM Madalin as I should have.

In all of these, my loyalty has always been eSA and the betterment of the community. (The only time this didn't work was when I returned to UP)

This wasn't as much a political smear as it was pointing out that she was questioning my integrity. Something I have always had. Even when arguing with Leon I kept it civil without insults, same with Henock.

Call me names, tell me I'm a dick and I won't say a word, question my integrity and I'll smear your face in the mud.

Miyagiyoda Day 2,050, 23:23

Claudio has stuck to IA process when its come to internal elections. It is unfair to fault him on that. There is also no rabid protest against him within IA because it is the home of a certain level of pragmatism -- unfettered by the politics of dogma and hate -- so we tend to wait and see past the moment. He has been given a chance and hasn't disappointed yet.

LiquidIce has also taken a certainty instead of an uncertain endorsement -- we have left it very late. Having been denied candidature in the past at the last moment; I cannot fault her pragmatism if pursuing something she want with all her heart.

Niffobti Day 2,049, 15:57

LI for CP

Fhaemita The Apostate
Fhaemita The Apostate Day 2,049, 23:57

People in eSA are idiots if they support Leon, last month he was a PTO'er and now suddenly after a bad month with a controversial CP they suddenly rally behind Leon.

Miyagiyoda Day 2,050, 23:49

How was it a bad month?

Participation as at an all time high and we've had significant galvanization within the community. Sure Congress chose a more aggressive and risky route than what the Presidency wished to pursue, but the nett result is close enough to patch over the obvious flaws to security created by this path. Just ask Léon, he has the solutions. It was part of his plan to Congress after all.

South Africa have burnt chances of friendship with Russia and probably face a vindictive Brazil down the line. The Presidential alternate was for it to be a vindictive Indo... but choices have been made, and we deal with the present. On the flip side, Argentina get a chance to redeem their reputation in South Africa. I hope to be pleasantly surprised by them when Indonesia shows up as the rise to being involved in more than South America politics.

TWO see us as untrustworthy after the Russian rebellion, but I am sure we can fix this with a change in TWO SC or by dealing directly with members instead. People will eventually forget, our theatre is far and small. TWO generally value wiping targeted enemies more than a country's mercurial word anyway, and only saw us a potential launching pad.

We've had some forum Administration issues which were seriously disruptive at a critical juncture, but they may yet resolve positively one way or the other, as we regain a reliable medium of communication. The trouble did highlight our antiquated policies regarding certification and showed that we can communicate ingame if forced too (although it is awkward and overly burdensome to be effective for sustained daily business).

Léon has showed last month that he is prepared to do anything to get his way. He secured MPPs without CP or Congress consultation or knowledge. He pulled South Africa into a war without asking. Okay, he forgot to ask Uruguay what they want in return or if they will help us vs Indo, but those are small details for reactionary "leadership".

Rico Suave
Rico Suave Day 2,050, 04:17

This is just too much. How can Claudio be accused of a smear campaign? How can he be accused of doing anything but helping what was a dying party? The IA will come back in force on the 15th, that would never have happened if you would have been left in your rut.

As for idiots supporting Leon. Maybe. The die has been cast and we're moving down a road which may lead to our demise. I suppose we could always go back to being an isolated puppet state and suffocate that way instead.

Henock Haukongo
Henock Haukongo Day 2,050, 05:00

I would have voted for her if she were FOR Brazil occupation with astronomical rent rate.

LiquidIce Day 2,050, 08:57

Nope, FOR RUSSIA with astronomical rent, maybe. No more eBrazil.

Henock Haukongo
Henock Haukongo Day 2,050, 09:04

Intriguing, go on . . . .

Jizzie McGuire
Jizzie McGuire Day 2,050, 10:40

It's a pity that I can't run this time and that it appears the race is turning into childish bickering and people getting butthurt on all sides. Maybe I should re-enter the race and be a do-nothing president for a month.

I like what Leon says he will do, but his lack of support and the fact that people say he has some hidden agenda concerns me. On the other hand, I'm not sure I agree with LI's platform (although I haven't heard much of it yet) and she's a bit too passive aggressive for my taste.

I'm seriously considering asking the DB-PF to pull out of this election altogether and telling the members to vote according to their conscience, which is basically what they are going to do anyway, since the DB is split between Leon and LI.

Marmaduke IV
Marmaduke IV Day 2,050, 11:26

In 100% agreement with this idea.

Fhaemita The Apostate
Fhaemita The Apostate Day 2,051, 00:09

DB-PF should pull out, I think you've been living under a rock if you support Leon. I can give enough examples of him being childish and petty using his positions to fight his feuds. For instance him trying to remove honorary access from me and Tenshibo just because we disagreed with him and gave rational arguments why he was wrong. His responds was trying and getting out access removed.

Constantine Sophotatos
Constantine Sophotatos Day 2,050, 22:36

How bout them FYROMians?

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