Germany, PEACE, and Neutrality
Chicco
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Dear members of the German community,
I see that Gobba recently presented his case for joining PEACE to Congress. Obviously his post contains a fair amount of spin and I think BBJ and HuCard have been doing an excellent job debunking it. Although it is important to get the facts straight, I decided to take a slightly different angle in this article: what would be the effect of joining PEACE on the German community, and how would the obvious tensions in our community affect a potential membership of Germany in PEACE?
There has never been a collective sense of belonging among eGermans. There is the PEACE camp and the anti-PEACE camp, and then there are those who flow with the tide. However, at no point since I became active in this community has there been a real consensus on where Germany stands. This divide gives rise to a number of important questions and considerations.
Can Germany ever be a trustworthy ally to PEACE?
Although the Swedish allegations against us were contrived, the fact remains that the German community had always harbored pro-PEACE elements, and this lent credibility to the Swedish claims that Germany had been a lousy ally and even the source of a number of ATLANTIS leaks. Conversely, if Germany joined PEACE, anti-PEACE sentiments would linger and undermine the German membership in much the same way.
For example, even if the current administration is a relentless cheerleader for PEACE, how can anyone be sure that the next government will not reverse course? And the government after that? Gobba may have taken 73% of the vote in the last elections but the cynical might point out that he ran without serious opponents. Especially with the upcoming citizenship module allowing for absentee ballots, the large number of German expatriates, who are predominantly opposed to PEACE membership, will start voting again and shift the political landscape.
As PEACE likes to say, they are not an alliance but a "family". Well, not only does the prospect of joining that "family" make many of us cringe, but every family has its black sheep, and I have the feeling that Germany is going to be it. Not because the German community is inherently disloyal or treacherous, as we have been called time and again. But because we are divided, and the perceived lack of loyalty is a mere symptom of that. Perhaps, then, it is best to concede our internal divisions and embrace the logical alternative: neutrality.
Can Germany ever become an equal member in PEACE?
PEACE liberated Germany from Sweden and Poland not out of sympathy or magnanimity. Anyone following the recent events would have to be blind not to recognize that Germany's liberation served strategic purposes relating to PEACE's war in North America. First, Hungary gained access to a region bordering Canada, and second, PEACE secured its flanks by eliminating borders with Sweden and Poland.
Italy's actions in particular provide a taste of how Germany is going to be treated in PEACE. Italy liberated three minor German regions: two with the help of Indonesian tanks, and one as a result of Poland retreating from the battlefield. Next, Italy demanded cash and goods worth 950 gold in exchange for Bavaria, a region which they had not even conquered but, in fact, had received through region swaps with Austria and Hungary (battles #1, #2, and #3). That is not covering their costs. That is extortion.
This administration has been selling its renewed relationship with PEACE as a diplomatic masterpiece, when, in fact, it was not so much diplomacy but a loose wallet: 300 gold to settle Germany's debts with Indonesia (out of Sebl's pocket) and 950 gold in protection money to the Italian bag man (out of your pocket). Right now PEACE is on top and the money may look like a sound investment, but the game remains fluid and there will come a time when even the mighty PEACE GC will wither. And when between a rock and a hard place there is little doubt that this alliance will sell Germany down the river.
And why shouldn't it? The rest of the New World has spent the past one and a half years building relationships and mutual trust. For various reasons Germany has not been able to participate in this. To make up for lost ground this administration is trying to build (and pay for) relations with countries that have been traditionally hostile toward us. Hasn't our brief stint in ATLANTIS demonstrated that this is at best an exercise in futility, and at worst a recipe for disaster? Shouldn't we rather direct our efforts at deepening our relations with countries that have shown genuine sympathy toward Germany? That's Canada for starters. But even the Americans whose administration has disappointed but whose Congress and population have been overwhelmingly friendly to our cause during the Swedish invasion. And as much as I hate to admit, even Hungary merits to be mentioned here. Is any of these countries going to demand that we join their respective alliance in exchange for extending relations? I think not. And although it will be difficult to maintain relations with countries on different sides of the aisle, neutrality could make it possible.
Will membership in PEACE widen the rift in the German community?
Many of the older players who have been around long enough to see not only the ugly face of ATLANTIS but also the ugly face of PEACE, never returned to Germany after having been forced into exile by the recent war. (This exodus is so extreme that a mere 1550 XP suffice to rank among Germany's top-10 players.). There are a number of reasons for this but an important one is this administration's submissive attitude to PEACE. The government's job is not only to protect (in this case restore) the country's territorial integrity but also to maintain the unity of the community. Bearing in mind that this is a game, I actually believe that the latter carries far more weight. Sadly, this administration has dealt much damage to our community by discrediting and alienating almost everyone who served in government before them. Why was this done? On the one hand, to settle personal scores, and, on the other hand, to placate PEACE. Joining PEACE would be yet another insult in a string of insults to a large and vital part of the German community. For many eGermans living in exile, joining PEACE may be the final straw prompting them to quit the German community for good.
Obviously joining ATLANTIS was a mistake. But not only because of the unfortunate wars that have transpired but because a significant part of the German community did not support this decision. This administration is only too keen to remind Germans of that mistake in an attempt to vilify the anti-PEACE camp. While some of this criticism is justified, the irony is that they are on the verge of committing the exact same mistake. It is neither fair nor wise for such a small community to permanently alienate a large and active part of it. To join PEACE would not be learning from past mistakes.
Is neutrality a viable option?
Anyone who hasn't been completely brainwashed knows that there were valid and compelling reasons NOT to join PEACE back in March. Faced with neutrality or joining ATLANTIS, the government chose ATLANTIS. This was not an act of betrayal, but borne out of the notion that neutrality was not a viable option. But is it? While I am not privy to the conditions, if any, that Hungary attached to its MPP with Germany, entry into PEACE does not appear to be one of them. As long as Hungary is willing to extend its MPP with Germany, neutrality remains on the table. In addition, other countries may be willing to sign MPPs with a neutral Germany. The option of neutrality should be explored and not dismissed off-hand in favor of the ruling clique's personal alliance preference.
Admittedly, neutrality comes with a major disadvantage, which is that gameplay suffers a great deal. This is because a neutral country cannot engage in war. However, keep in mind that thanks to the Italian demands, Germany is not going to be in a position to fund an army for several months to come anyway. Those who want to fight are no worse off just fighting on their own. Alternatively, they can join a foreign army on their preferred side, as I did and as many others did. That is not an act of treason. It's an act of gameplay.
It has become apparent that many younger players born during or shortly before the recent war just want protection from Sweden and Poland and do not care about much else. This is understandable but let us also come up with a long-term strategy to secure Germany its rightful place among the eRepubliks which it has so long been denied. As always, viewpoints are clouded by personal affinities and personal histories, and this article as well as the discussion in Congress are no exceptions. Hopefully, however, this article will help stimulate a broader discussion on this important topic.
~Chicco
Comments
Du willst nicht mehr in Deutschland leben - deine Entscheidung
Du willst bei den Marines kämpfen - deine Entscheidung
Du magst Gobba nicht - Deine Entscheidung
Du findest unser Politik nicht gut - NICHT Deine Entscheidung!
Wenn Du was ändern willst, komm nach Deutschland und werd aktiv, aber schuette keinen Müll über unseren Landsleuten aus, nur weil persönliche Differenzen zwischen dem einen oder anderen Dich stören.
Danke fuer den sachlichen Beitrag!
Let the flaming begin 😉
Chicco, you defected to the USA and directly fought against the Bundeswehr in Mecklenburg.
Congress has declared you a traitor, you have no relevance here.
You and Isy got us into this situation in the first place. A bit of intelligent thought goes a long way when you consider joining an alliance.
Achja, und zu deiner Milchmädchen-Rechnung. Wir wären niemals in einer solchen Situation gewesen, wenn Deine gelobten USA uns nicht eiskalt sitzengelassen hätten. Man darf ja nicht aus PMs zitieren, ich habe aber noch welche, wo wir Scrabman angefleht haben, zu helfen. Die herzlich arroganten Antworten sprechen ihre eigene Sprache.
Kämpfe Du mit Shoot an einer Seite, klopft euch auf die Schultern, aber häng Dich nicht in unsere Politik.
Ich denke, Hucard und BBJ schaffen es wunderbar allein, zu argumentieren und ihren Standpunkt zu vertreten.
Voted
Elisa, at least try to prove him wrong here. Joining PEACE is pointless, it is like hopping on the sinking ship.
More foreign propaganda from someone who was a key player in the downfall of Germany-Hungary relations.
BJJ, I made my arguments to congress. I will not waste my time repeating them here.
I support the PEACE option.
Is neutrality a viable option?
Nein. 🙂
Thank you Chicco for stating the arguments clearly and for providing viable options!I believe in the same things and wish eGermany would build it self and not worry about joining PEACE at least not yet.
Du magst die Leute von PEACE kritisieren, hast aber für unsere ehemaligen Besatzer gekämpft, genauso wie Isy.
I completely agree with this article and it delivers many a valid point. Very well written, and true.
LOL didn't think you had the balls to actually try and get involved... nice article, but not worth reading, as I know what you stand for Chicco. Seeing as you have sacrificed and betrayed Germany much in order to stand with your ATLANTIS family.
Germany has much to Thank you and Isy for... Well most importantly the Backstabbing after Operation Burning Spirit and the outrageous push for ATLANTIS, due to personal grudges you have against PEACE.
The direct result of this was the destruction of the AGU and later the complete Annihilation of Germany.
It's funny how all of the supposed ATLANTIS supporters fled Germany after that! Funny to see that now after we have build it up again and made it respected for once, they creep out of their hiding holes and are trying to suck Germany down again.
I say this again, your choices and actions lead Germany to total destruction! Not a chance in the world that I would validate your arguments by answering them.
Yep, excellent article that is pretty much spot on.
I am disgusted by the "you are a traitor, we know what you stand for and thus your opinion doesnt matter"-replies. I thought we left this kind of behaviour behind us 60 years ago...but apparantly not.
During my presidency Chicco has invested more time into eGermany than most of you people combined since you even started... and him going abroad to do what he thinks is right is not changing that fact.
It merely shows that he is independent enough to not blindly follow the current "government" and their followers who shout everyone down who dares to disagree with what is going on.
I dont think whats on your guys mind. Point out one reason why the eGerman politics should follow the ones that left eGermany over the ones that stayed and build up this once again.
Breaking News: You dont shape the future of an eCountry by going to exile fighting as a mercenary for whoever you like and publishing witty reports.
Instead by being Congressmember or in the Government, heck even running for and loosing gets you the chance to shape the future of your country.
Liberty, Fraternity, Neutrality.
naja die sache ist doch, dass niemand gefragt wurde ob wir ATLANTIS joinen. es wurde einfach beschlossen während man in eDE noch diskutierte ob man PEACE joint ... allein diese aktion macht doch deinen text teilweise fragwürdig, da es für eDE quasi keine chance gab sich zu beweisen in einer ALLY und das ganze führte zu dem Punkt an dem wir jetzt sitzen, ausserdem kann man es genau andersrum sehen viele leute, die damals ein Teil der deutschen Community waren, sind damals inaktiver geworden oder haben eDE verlassen als man anstatt zu PEACE zu ATLANTIS wechselte.
Du kannst also nicht sagen, dass nur weil man jetzt zu PEACE tendiert die Community leidet. Es wird immer Spieler geben die anderer Meinung sind und mit ihrem Ego nicht vereinbaren können, dass sie evtl im UNrecht sein können oder einfach eine Minderheit sind und diesen steht frei in ein anderes Land zu wechseln.
Zumindest gibt es in eDE eine aktive Community, denen die Chance gegeben wird, aktiv an der Entscheidung mit zudiskutieren sowohl im Kongress, der leider noch sehr unerfahrene Mitglieder hat, aber auch in der gesamten Community.
Und es nicht nur bei uns so, dass es keine einheitliche Meinung gibt warum sollte es auch so sein, es wird immer proPEACE und kontraPEACE geben, und wenn es sich als Fehler rausstellt dann dürfen die kontraPEACE auch gerne "ich habs ja gleich gesagt" sagen, aber von aussen Steine in Glashaus werfen und dann sagen "Schau mal die haben ja nicht einmal mehr Fenster in eDE" halte ich für fatal und unbedacht .....
Starkad in Sweden ...
you could at least have gone to spain, usa, canada that actualy cared for germany, at least a little bit... nc
anyway I don't see the point in this "let's join peace as fast as we can" thing...
I think, geting back all your egerman players should be your NR.1 priority, instead of looking for a new alliance.
You should contact all those in a foreign country, in a foreign army, to come back to their fathercountry to rebuild it together.
To me it makes no sense that I see half germans fighting for us, the other half fighting against us...
neutrality is a walkable way if you happen to get your players back: we have no interest not to sign those MPPs so chicco is right there...
but if players like chicco won't be coming home anyway there is no point
"Starkad in Sweden ...
you could at least have gone to spain, usa, canada that actualy cared for germany, at least a little bit... nc"
I am certainly not in eSweden because i love it so much, Sherlock 😛
lolwut you are prezident 😃 soz, next time i won't just take a look for a sec 😃
I dont know, what our leaders thought our know about eGermany. But I know: the ecitizens, the soldiers fought for YOU! Not for reasons, or greed, or something...for eGermany...
As US Ambassador to your country, we would of course prefer to see you come on our side, but if that is not an option, neutrality would be preferred.
übrigens,
pushed Frankreich doch nicht so auf. Der Verlust von Mecklenburg-Vorpommern hat Frankreich womöglich noch die Haut gerettet.
Mal ganz ehrlich Frankreich hätte weder Schweden noch Polen irgendwas entgegen zu setzen gehabt, da bei dieser Region weder MPPs oder sonst was aktiv geworden wäre. Ganz zu schweige den das Frankreich fast PTOed wurde und sich knapp davon retten konnte (wie schön das Ungarn da keine andere Länder PTOen konnte 😁). Wäre doch noch lustiger Gewesen wenn auf Grund MVP Frankreich aus der Landkarte verschwunde wäre oder ? Also müsste man noch dankbar sein das die schönen Franzöischen Frauen frei bleiben können (falls von denen jemals erep gehört haben was stark anzuzweifeln ist hahaha).
Außerdem hat das irgendein Sinn das hessen und Thüringen unter Fremdherrschaft bleiben ? Bayern ist klar Italien braucht ein Trophy für ihr Ego (auch wenn ihr es nicht mitbekommen hat, hat Italien eine Innenpolitische Krise deswegen weil das Militär nicht daran denkt nur eine Region wieder herzugeben, also wird das noch eine Interessante Sache in einem Monat was uns im Haus steht)
Jedoch sind Hessen und Thüringen so ziemlich die Sinnlosesten Regionen in eGermany (abgesehen davon das sie Heimatorte sind) es sind weder mit irgendwelchen Länder benachbart noch haben sie eine Strategische Bedeutung ? Naja man muss ja nicht viel Verstehen.
So kleine Wiederholung :
Lasst mich nun in ruhe weiter schlafen - danke ! 😃
Great article and I totally agree with Starkards response.
I'm disgusted reading the comments, it's not critics against Chiccos article or his points but against his person.
Gobbas word "not worth reading" is classic and it scares me.
Wow, ich kenn zwar Isy nicht, aber er macht mir nen ziemlich verbitterten und trotzigen Eindruck! 😮
Wohoo, Misho is on Chiccos side. Can't go against Chicco anymore if one of Swedens top-trolls is on his side 🙂
It's really interesting. All the past days it was silent around Isy and Chicco. And it sure was a more quiet time.
As for America. There was support by some citizens. But not by the congress. In the first attempt the Peace-Proposal with Sweden got turned down. But after the reelection, it passed easily.
And sure there were military interests in PEACE for helping us. But every alliance does that. America turned us down, because they wanted to stay with sweden. Now they face attacks, their ambassador shows up and claims they would like us as allies. Lol. I guess more they want us not in PEACE.
And I don't care if players left because they don't like germanies politics. That's their problem. If they want politics to change, they should get involved. But it's always easier to run away and cry from far away.
Chicco said our main Problem is, that we are devided. And don't have sense for our own country. But he himself is one of those guys. He only sees his own interests, and if they don't get served, he leaves. He left Austria. He left Germany. And he will leave the US as soon as he finds somethin unpleasing.
wow wish I could speak german, would really help understand everything being said. Let me first start saying that I am a friend of eGermany, for a while I had employed about 50 German's in the companies I owned here. Furthermore when you were invaded by Sweden and Poland I proudly in the defense of your nation (check the battle records) even though our President declared neutrality in the conflict. Now likewise the eUS is in trouble and being attacked by the forces of oppression and terror. I have been very proud to see Germany fighting in defense of our mutual ally Canada, if I recall they were one of the few nations to stand with you during the swedish invasion. I can understand the desire to be in an alliance that will hopefully defend you. But by joining PEACE right now you will be forced to fight against the very people who worked to defend you. From what I can tell a very Pro-PEACE govt is trying to force this upon a more neutrality minded populace. Oh well my thoughts! Best of luck!
-Gaius
This guy is a traitor. He's underminded Germany so many times in favor of ATLANTIS.
Ich muß Lhasa völlig Recht geben.
davon abgesehen, stehe ich nach wie vor für ein neutralles Deutschland. Das soll aber nicht heißen, das wir auf gute beziehungen zu einigen Ländern verzichten sollten, z.B. durch MPP´s.
Auch wenn es einigen schwer fällt. Ich stehe nach wie vor zu Canada, Japan, Ungarn und Frankreich. Schade nur, das die sich nicht alle unter einen Hut bringen lassen.
P.S. I think you are right here too Simontornyai Lackfi Nandor.
lets bring our people home, from all over the world, and rebuild Germany. Making Germany stronger, even for our Friends.
Isy und Starkad haben die Situation völlig richtig geschildert.
Dann fragt man sich: Ja gut und warum bist du dann noch hier?
Naja, ich schätze mal, weil ich mich weiterhin hier in der Politik einmischen und beteiligen wollte...
Denn Deutschland bietet keine hohe Gehälter und kaum Versorgung - diese können also nicht meine Gründe gewesen sein. Aller Wahrscheinlichkeit nach auch weil ich in Hessen lebe...
Aber genug davon. Die Schilderungen der beiden sind völlig richtig. Und jeder, der nur einen von ihnen - seien es Chicco, Isy oder Starkad einen Verräter nennt, sollte sich zu tode schämen.
----
Isy and Starkad's summeries of the past situations are totally true.
Now you might ask me: Why are YOU still here?
Well, because I guess I still wanted to intervene and participate in our countries' politics.
Germany doesn't offer high salaries and hardly health care - so these might not the reasons.
Propably too that I'm living in Hesse.
But enough of this. The sketches of both of them are totally correct. And everyone who is calling anyone of them, be it Chicco, Isy or Starkad, to be a traitor, should feel ashamed to death.
This article is seriously first in our news?
-.-
Seriously, if we think PEACE is using us, then we should seriously just tell them to take their MPP's elsewhere. We're a small country. Until we man up and become a large, populous, powerful country, its our place to be used. Hard to say, but true. At least PEACE doesn't appear to have any back motive. If we betray them in their endeavor, why should they bother to help us if our neighbor to the east would happen to decide it wants our land? Honestly, i'm shocked we've received help twice. And the second time was a pure miracle, I honestly thought we would end up erased from the map for quite a while. I would gladly help PEACE in its endeavours in exchange for eGermanys Independance.
here here
wow it is really amazing...neutrality is always a vital option.
greetings to Misho 😉 and best wishes from the USA...
BTW Does eGermany has more German player than eUSA and eCanada?
its nice to read an article from you again 🙂
being divided is the whole point of democracy, you know. respecting the majority's decision, even if you thing its wrong is an important thing, when it comes to unity. the other way to unity is brainwash...
remember when gobba became president in the first place. He could have turned the wheel at once, but he followed the path stark have started, to prove that eGermany is not a disloyal, treacherous, untrustworthy ... ecountry.
you are loyal to your goals only, not to your ecountry.
how disgusting it is to shout traitor and stuff? well, ask chicco about that, if I recall correctly he enjoyed saying stuff like that to justin as well, for far minor 'betrayal' 🙂
@gaius:
But by joining PEACE right now you will be forced to fight against the very people who worked to defend you wrong and false. If you dont want to fight, PEACE doesnt point a gun to your head 🙂
I just want to spend a word for misho anyway. If there is someone that is not a troll at all is him. His reply is just role playing.
ciao misho!
Good article, voted.
Voted, this is a fairly accurate description of the matters at hand. As for why many eGermans left eGermany, the 'old guard', perhaps they decided to take a eVacation 😛.