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Respect eNL, one of my favorite eNations o/

1. You never had an agreement with the UK - A potential, "let's talk about it chaps" discussion thread about a potential, possible deal had only just opened on the day CODE landed which ofc rendered it moot.

2. If you looked at the London support stack for the RW you would of seen it full of UKers (as there was enough colour in our nation at the time) which this time we fought to win in contrast to the last effort there which we tanked to lose so Slovenia could have an unimpeded shot at EoE.

1. Countless hours of conducted talks between Dutch and British government say something different. Just as the tax return, which we have done, according to our common agreements 🙂 .

2. Yes, UK also did their part to help remove hostile Airstrike of South Korea from their territory, and therefore ultimately nullify it, we cannot forget that.

And as I tried explaining to you, the UK CP is from the 'political roleplay' faction.

The role they are playing isn't the Head of State (QEII) or a RL USA-style President, it's the Prime Minister of the UK (Boris) so they aren't the great controlling poobah but merely the first of equals.

In practical eRep terms that means that they have to convince congress (the House of Commons) of what they are doing which means 'white papers' (actual detail), discussions, votes on everything apart from donations to the BoE (Which are rubber stamped).


If you do feel you had an agreement with SHA and/or Huey then what you had was an agreement that they would present your position/deal in the UK congress and (possibly) use their influence and weight to convince them to come to the conclusion you wanted.

..........which they probably would have given on a narrow 60/40ish result had it got as far as voting.

It does not matter, whether government is from "political roleplay faction", "Alfa butthurt faction", "blue faction" or "red faction". It is a government, and if they present some other government with an agreement to sign, with which both sides agree, then an agreement is signed. How do they internally process (or processed) it with their Congress, is not our concern, because we do not meddle in internal affairs of other nations. Just like other nations do not meddle in ours. Neither do we, as the government, deal with rogue opposition citizens from other countries, and hold them higher than the members of the government - as I have also tried to explain to you in messages, which you have sent to various leaders, trying to turn them against your own government or create some sort of casus belli against nations you (and only you, not the UK) dislike.

Ultimately (seeing the recent impeachment law of UK), it is clear, where you stand, and where the government stands. So I take your comments as comments of private UK citizen, who is in opposition of government, and therefore acts against everything it does. And who actually managed to hurt UK interests more than he probably wanted.

Do not worry though - we do not forget our friendship with UK, despite all that happened 🙂 !

>" It is a government, and if they present some other government with an agreement to sign, with which both sides agree, then an agreement is signed."

If it's the UK government that made the offer then that's correct as the assumption would be that the agreement has received the consent of the HoC.

If it's an offer made to the UK government then it's provisional until that assent.


Like you, I have no interest in the internal affairs of another nation so I'm not sure how foreign a concept this is to you as you may be adopting a different ingame model or have yourself based on a RL parallel such as the Dutch or EU governing structure.

As for harming UK's interests - The deal we got/get from the other alliance/group is superior to the one we had on offer (if what we got to discuss was your offer) from your group/gang.

......which we only found out was on offer a significant number of days after the invasion had begun.

For someone, who is not part of "political roleplay", you sure roleplay quite a lot. And here I thought NL is the country, that is so heavily invested in internal politics 🙂 .

Either way, you have been numerous times informed about what is going on, and clearly, so were the other UK citizens, because they followed the information and orders according to their government. The only one, who was acting contrary of everything, was you. Not even your party members followed you there, with maybe one or two exceptions. So your royal "we"... does not really fit in the conversation.

Who does not want to be informed (so he can blame others for lack of informations), will always find a way to dodge the information. Unfortunately for you, it is hard to do so in a public debate, where everyone can see it. That is, unless you delete your comments later, like you have been known to do in other articles :/ .

I would be repeating myself over and over again - a lot of what I have written here was already said to you days ago... and at this point, it frankly feels like throwing pearls to a swine. So let me reiterate, that we still keep our friendship of the UK, and we will be sure to help them against their CODE invaders, when it will be necessary 🙂 .

That's cool but at least try ensure the UK CP tells the rest of us that you're playing to role of liberators rather then conquerors and make sure the army doesn't contain anyone with a punative work tax.

>"Who does not want to be informed (so he can blame others for lack of informations), will always find a way to dodge the information"

We don't have a forum (I think only the USoA does these days?)

We don't do telegram.....well we have channels but maybe a dozen UKers at best are actually on telegram.

Discord is dead - We stopped using that about 2 years ago.

So unless you are in a PM group (generally the only one is congress mail, which I'm not part of) then it's basically an article or bust.

You telling me there's a deal without a shred of evidence coupled with a CP who refuses to confirm or deny...........we can only base things on actions.

On one thing Alpha is right, no matter what the government decides if the military power of the country, potentially only few accounts - or just him alone - disagrees.

It's no shame to admit that you prefer Code over Asteria instead of rhetoric acrobatics and convincing people in five-page monologues, my dear old friend. All your arguments fall on loose screws, when the UK passively had to endure renewed invasions of Croatia, Greece, Slovenia and USA without resistance from your self-proclaimed 'faction'.

You say not to care about 'political roleplay', but you sure in hell need a lot of political words to justify screwing over a part of your own country. We'll see how the new deal with your invaders turn out, and whether it's in the interest of the UK - or just Alfa and his sympathies and urgent need of validation.

III. The UK Government will inform CODE and ANDES of any approach by a non-signatory nation to illicit aid in attempts to harm either the 'CODE' or 'ANDES' alliances.

Hope this time around you are allowed to continue to speak to us, as I certainly found your contributions interesting 😉

If on Day 1 of the invasion (Day -2 to the Netherlands) our CP had come out and said "Same deal but different countries" then it wouldn't of been an issue.

Instead he refused to confirm if a deal was agreed or even in the works and all we had was the UAE screwing the UK with 25% work tax and what appeared to be a Dutch attempt to lockdown EoE production (seemed you wanted to use it as an occupied base).


CODE made the offer the day they arrived "Same deal, different nations" the day they arrived.

If it's publically signed by the UK government then fine, if not or it's rejected then we will gear up to resist in the same manner.


P.S I'm not Pro-Code or Anti-Other alliance - I'm Cro-Irish with a dash of MKD love and other nations I'm pretty 'Meh!' about

.....and yes JantyF already said it's not his or any other nations job to do what the UK gov should of done if in fact there was a deal of some nature.

Meh, that's not exactly how it went. As your friend Abu Rash confirmed below, your Country President was very clear there was an agreement 'in the works'. And I don't take you for a fool (not at all!), so I'm sure you are well aware that one would come that would at minimum be similar to the ones you have with Code. Both treating you like a mere Training War facility.

Hence why I'm not convinced at all you're not Pro-Code in this instance. I'm as much a fighter as the politician class that is disgusted by you, so I appreciate and have seen your fighting efforts. One would not facilitate the replacement of invader A by invader B if it was only about protecting the United Kingdom.

FYI, we have no interest in locking down your production and I find it asinine that one would think so. Of all the nations on your shore, we are the ones that realize the struggles of a small nation (because even with your spending, the United Kingdom is similar in damage as NL). In fact, we were supposed to leave the United Kingdom, if it weren't for your interventions. Fine strategy indeed, but don't pretend like we have had any ill intent in the aftermath.

Now you're back to square zero. The United Kingdom will have their hands tied again and unable to do anything of substance, by a Code that is not a friend, by your internal squabbling and eternal impeding Asteria invasion. Perhaps it's good for Alfa, though. Take care 😛

That post on the national wall was from 6 days ago - The invasion began about 18 days ago!

If it's proof of anything is that we were kept like mushrooms in the dark for almost 2 weeks at which point we were off the map and being asked to pay 25% Work Tax.

Then eventually the UK gov tells us that an agreement is ALMOST in place at this point (without detail on the agreement itself) and just needs Congress and MU leaders to sign off on it.

>FYI, we have no interest in locking down your production and I find it asinine that one would think so.

One of the claims made by the UK government was that London should be defended so that the UK could have daily battles and DO's by bouncing a battle between EoE and London.

Obviously that's tosh as we had plenty of opportunity for fights in the UK at the time - but they claimed that the Dutch CP agreed to this which meant you;d be sat in EoE with an open war meaning no work for those in EoE.

So we are back to square one in trying to figure out if the UK gov or the Foregin nation is making stuff up.

And that's why you so heavily pushed walls for London to be occupied as well, so you could screw production for everyone equally 🙂 . Just out of curiousity, I went to see "those in EoE" - turns out, we talk about 4 people, who have significant amount of factories (significant meaning above 10, and only one above 20, but below 50). Meanwhile in London, I stopped counting, when I got to number 12, and was still not done.

I understand, what you are trying to do. You have screwed yourself royally with pushing walls against UK interests, trying to mess up with battls of UK allies, and even helping CODE invaders to settle in your nation (and, what some of your comments might suggest, even invited them in in the first place). You have lost a trust of many people, and you have probably made yourself some powerful enemies on the battlefield. And to avoid dealing with consequences of your ill-thought actions, you are trying to divert the blame onto anyone else, ideally someone "foreign invader", who will not be following all your accusations and outrageous comments, meaning you will have no opposition while stating them. To do so, you are inventing an entirely new reality - a reality, which some of UK might believe in (especially if you are their only source of information, as your articles gratiously suggest - be it due to lack of communication of the government, or simply due to the fact you love to be louder than anyone else), but reality, which does not work outside your borders, where everyone has been dutifully informed about what was really going on.

As I stated above: "Who wants to be blind to the truth, he will always find a way." And you are a perfect example to confirm that.

Feel free to continuing accusing Netherlands of war crimes against your nation. But remember, that (your probably favourite) quote of: "“Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth” will not work here. Dutch people are better than a bunch of flying kittens afterall 🙂 .

1. It's the number of factories owned by ACTIVE players that counts. Someone who;s been dead for years and owns 86 factories (john12306) counts less then an active player in EoE with 5 tiny ones (Aries Birch)

2. The UK doesn't have allies, the few orders/suggestions that actually got posted on the wall were pro-neutralist.

3. I've never blamed you for launching an invasion in what is a war game and certainly not accused you of 'war crimes' (which is a bit of a harsh word to use in any context).

4 I fully accept what I've done and if/when you return to these shores without an open invite - I'll be doing it again.

After all that's what the buttons are for.


And that what it boils down to - If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck then it's a duck & If you invade a nation, punish them with prohibitive taxation, DoW/NE them directly when your supposed enemy (CODE) is defeated and look to keep any region on a non-rotational lockdown.......It's a hostile invasion.


Just because one or two UKers greet you with legs akimbo doesn't mean the rest of us have to.

1. I am not stupid, I counted only people, who were alive. Otherwise EoE woud get 10-ish, and London probably more than 50. But you know that very well... if you checked those regions yourself, of course. So does your President, hence why he insisted on London to be free region, held under control of UK.

2. Yes, it is hard to keep allies, when opposition has different allies than the government. Look at France, and how difficult was (and still sometimes is) for them. And look, how it works for UK.

3. If you think "war crimes" is harsh word, then you will love your future "deals" with CODE 😛 .

4. Just as we did now, we will not come into UK, unless UK government will agree upon it first... or unless there will be pro-CODE government, actively supporting Dutch enemies... in which case, we would indeed come as an invading force for the first time in our modern history.

5. Not sure, what punitive taxation we brought, but okay. I am aware of UAE tax, but I do not know, how it connects to us. But hey, who wants to beat a dog, will always find a stick to do so. Just do not mix up the dogs.

6. Just because one of two UKers, who are not even members of government or Congress, believe we have invaded UK, doesn't mean we invaded UK. Amongs many misinformations, that one is a grain of truth from you 🙂 .

1.The actual figure for Actives in EoE is 109 companies owned by active players and I don't have to check with the UK government as they don't track those figures - I do. That's why I know the figure for London is 325.

So the options were have 325 working at (roughly 30😵 and 109 stopped or have 424 working at base.

I let you do the maths on that one!


2. The UK solution to that was to adopt a neutralist position i.e as long as whichever nation or nation is trampling in our garden is destroying the cabbage patch then we don't care.

We never received that assurance so all we had was the evidence of 25% work tax and getting attacked and wiped long after CODE had gone.

You can only base things on actions and as such you think I have hatred in my heart for You//The dutch/Your allies no matter how I claim that I honestly don't care as long as you don't disturb the cabbages.


3. We already know what shape the 'future' deal with CODE is


4. Again we have no proof of an invite either from you (not your job to do so) or the UK government.

If you come again and we're actually told so we don't have to waste damage or time trying to guess the outcomes then no one will contest it.


As for pro-CODE, pro-Asteria or pro-Orion or other..........no one in the UK actually cares about that.

One of the random shouts we got from our CP was an attempt to start a discussion on choosing sides.......the response was 'Meh!'


5. My understanding (based on this article) was that yours was a team effort and thus your actions were at the least associated with the other nations rather then the Dutch jumping on a bandwagon at the last minute?

6. I think it's the fact you declared war on and then took regions from us that may have led some to believe you were invading us.

Not sure how that can be misinterpretated tbh?!

Also.........Frikkin emojis!!!!

1. Well, it's hard to conduct TWs without sacrificing your less populated regions - you are not bringing anything new to me. And ideally, NL would not even have to touch London (where we were pushed only thanks to your invaluable damage assistance 🙂 )

2. Yes, your have displayed your relations to NL very well in past few weeks. But, since you are only one citizen, it does not mean anything regards our relationship with your nation.

3. Yes, probably the reused old one, when you will not be allowed to talk to countries, without asking them for approval first. Great deal.

4. I have given you proofs from my side. It is your choice only to be blind to them, I do not need to waste hours of my life trying to convince someone, who does not want to be convinced. I have some other Dutch people for that (and I value spending time on thse instead, if only since they are my citizens 😉 )

5. Doesn't explain the accusation of us coming with punitive tax. For NL, that would have been true year ago, but since then, I did my job to make our taxes quite contra-punitive 😉 .

6. As stated numerous times before, I do not see into your individual heads, and neither is my job to do so. If we had acted at any time against your government, we would notice quite quickly. But we did not.

1. A 2/3 or at a push a 1/2 sacrifice (able to work/not work) of the less populated regions is certainly doable if accompanied by a relocation scheme but your London - EoE bounce didn't have that.

The deal on offer from your 'side' also didn't have that (Assuming the deal we saw was the final/actual deal).


2. It doesn't mean anything period.

You attacked, We defended.
Yoou occupied, We resisted.
You left/got pushed, We stopped caring.

As the map currently rests - If you had an attempted MTO we'd come and fight for you.

If you were being attacked by a larger alliance we wouldn't be on their side for 'revenge'.

If you came again tot he UK uninvited then once again we'd defend, resist then stop caring.

3. We can talk it's just we have to tell them about it.

Freedom of information, open democracy and all that!

4. You gave me no proof other then saying it was so.

I don't know you. I've no prior relationship with you so whilst I'm sure your not the devil - I'm not inclined to believe you on some kind of blind faith.

5. You, let's say 'arrived', as a group.

Presumably you had some kind of plan even if it was scrawled on a napkin.

The result of your groups arrival was what it was regardless of the lesser part you played in the beginning and the bigger part you played in the end.

6. UK comms sucks is the TLDR of it - I know it, our gov knows it and now you know it.

I don't see it getting better no matter who's turn it is on the rota.

1. For someone, who claimed at the beginning to know nothing, your details about "London - EoE bounce" are quite interesting - especially given the fact I do not seem to recall for NL planning doing that.

2. Yes, I have learned already you believe your actions never have consequences. They do though 🙂 .

3. So you submitted your foreign diplomacy to CODE. If you think that is the best UK can do...

4. I have plenty of proofs, as the conversations I had with UK exist 🙂 . It's only your stubborness, who is trying to convince the world I just made everything up, and spent hous talking to myself, instead of your government.

5. Does not explain tax accusations. And it never will, seeing you.

6. Well, good to admitting that your yourself would not do any better. Seeing you, you never would, so that checks out.

1. It was in response to a wall shout made about London by the current CP.

"Win in London"

"why"

"So Dutch can bounce + other reasons"

"That's dumb because....etc....etc"

"etc"

"etc"


2. All actions have consequences.

Are you accusing me of denying newtonian physics!!!


3. Foreign Affairs and not a subject of interest to most UKers anymore then Guerilla fighting is.


4. I'm not trying to convince the world or even you.

I've repeatedly said that I fully believe that you have a genuine belief that you were invited.

My gut feeling says that there was probably some sort of nod and wink to give you this impression.

But repeatedly (Again) - I have nothing concrete to go on so if it's okay with you - we'll fight what appears to be an invasion (or at least what was)


5. Article - "as Netherlands, we have participated in the allied efforts of Bulgaria, UAE and Peru"

Comments - "What the others did is nothing to do with us mate!"

Make up your mind.


6. It's true, even if I had the will to run for the office or be some kind of UK communication Czar - A lot depends on the willingness of the player base.

1. Ah - so yet more responses given by CP. That is the third one, and we started at 0. And here I thought it is all for naught.

2. Well, I mean, flying cats kinda defy physics in general 😃

3. Guerilla.. what now? Sounds like some made-up thing!

4. I tend to learn that in conversation, I am usually the one nodding and winking in conversations, and everyone else just either talks in complete sentences, or talks in setences, which are far from English language. Either way, I have my proofs, and you have your denying. It's feels like climate change debate, quite frankly.

5. Still does not explain the punitive tax NL brought with. You will not worm your way out of of this lie, no matter how much you deflect 🙂 .

6. Good that we agree on something!

Hold up love - I might be about to receive and actual answer to the question of whether you were invited by UK Gov!

😮

Current Gov denies any awareness of the Netherlands being issued an invite to 'invade/arrive/holiday' in the UK.

So that just leaves the last CP who went missing in a drunken haze around the time you invaded.

Well, if you will be searching for CP from times of "Dutch invasion", you will probably have to start looking on nearest graveyard 😉 (I am sure NL actually invaded UK in the past... riiiiight?)

o7
Stay strong!

Hope To See You Rise Even Higher
o/

Hallo Amsterdam!

I'm just a newbie but all our Government gave us was a shout on the national wall

President Huey George 6 days ago
As a prelude to an article from me (sorry for not releasing one sooner) A TW agreement is almost in place with Asteria (Bulgaria, Peru and UAE) and the Netherlands. Your congressional representatives' approval is be sought and Military Commander consulted for comment.

I was also in the National Army at the start of the war but we weren't told anything apart from to prepare for a crazy ride and then nothing to the point I left it for somewhere more active.

I still haven't the foggiest idea what it was all about if I'm honest as right now I'm just trying to upgrade my training grounds and work on my air rank and I am sure my 10 points of damage didn't change things much anyway XD

The proof of information given is a good sight to see, if only to confirm or deny, what was said above 🙂 . For someone so new to the game, you can certainly interpret informations better than some people playing it for more than 10 years - so let's hope you will manage to not lose the track, and get discouraged by UK occupation! Training Grounds is certainly a good start ot upgrade, they have the best "return-of-investment" value out of all newbie options!

In that shout it seems like there was no agreement reached (at that time) between uk gov and uk congress. so really strange we already occupied them by that point....

The shout mentions the TW agreement about how individual Training Wars will be set-up, after CODE is removed, and border with Ireland and USA is cleared out. Unlike CODE, we did not came to UK with already prepared and presigned plan of "How to carve up UK", but we wanted to debate with UK about those details, looking after their demands and wishes. And that one indeed took a while to be finished, as the initial setup of countries quite differed from demands of both UK government, and other governments as well, and there were the above-mentioned Alfa elements interfering at all times, causing some regions, which should have been freed, ending not being freed at all (London being one of the unfortunate examples).

As for NL, we kept it quite simple and agreed to everything presented to us. The only thing we opposed was the return of taxes, where we wanted to do tax returns monthly or biweekly (as opposed to weekly period, which was suggested), due to the low amount of tax we would be getting from one (or at max two) regions we would be holding.

It mentions a TW agreement being debated but no detail such as would taxes be returned, whether certain regions would be locked, would any regions be free.

For all we knew it could of been a better or worse deal then the last one we had. It later (+1 day for actual detail to be released) turned out to be marginally worse but not prohibitive if the UK gov did some funded relocation.

By that point we'd been at war for 12 days and the counter-attack by CODE made it moot.

Looking back at messages at my disposal, I have been in contact with your current CP since March 5th (when he was not even CP yet), and on March 8th, I have been added into some group with all other nations and new UK government, where further debates took place. At no point , UK government expressed to me desire for NL to leave, which we would do promptly, if asked. If they expressed it to someone else from NL, it never reached my inbox.

So there are the facts 🙂 .

(either way, I am sure Alfa will deny existence of all conversations I ever had with UK government, because he denies every conversation he isn't directly part of. As proven in our common messages, which I can also share to people, if interested 🙂 )

Kinda hard for me to deny or confirm a conversation that I was unaware of either at the time or since.

......which is kinda my point.


Did you and the UK government have talks prior to the invasion - I suspect you did.

Did you get an invite to come - No idea

Did they promise you no resistance - No idea

Did they at least promise that they wouldn't fight you - Hard to say because whilst they didn't turn up to the battles, they tend not to turn up to battles anyway so - 50/50 on that one.

Was I or anyone in my MU or party at anytime told to stop (by UK gov) - Nope

Was I or anyone in my MU or party at anytime told or made aware of any prior agreement or future end state - Not until that shout from 6 days ago.

And which you continue to deny, even when you were made aware of it by multiple sources ).

Either way:

Did you and the UK government have talks prior to the invasion - The NE law was accepted only after conformation with UK gov (hence why we "attempted" to hold votes... "attempted", as in... 12 people did not even try to do so, making the vote like 6:6 quite quickly)

Did you get an invite to come - Yes

Did they promise you no resistance - Yes

Did they at least promise that they wouldn't fight you - Yes, but they warned that there are pro-CODE people like you

Was I or anyone in my MU or party at anytime told to stop (by UK gov) - You were certainly told by us at one point

Was I or anyone in my MU or party at anytime told or made aware of any prior agreement or future end state - Not a member of UK to comment on that.

I am just real curious, what you are trying to fabricate or achieve here. Is causing mess in UK not enough for you? Or you just need attention that much 😉 ? Becaus to present your side of the story, you did not need 20 comments, 1 or 2 would suffice.

> "And which you continue to deny, even when you were made aware of it by multiple sources"

Who are these multiple sources?

Former CP - Last seen by the public writing the "UK surrenders" article which makes no reference of a deal

Current CP - Who's closest confirmation/denial was on the national feed

"Did we invite them to the eUK?"

Huey George
"Depends on timescales, we invited Asteria (Bulgaria, Macedonia, Romania) to the UK before Code/Andes removed them a long-time ago, in the meantime Code/Andes kept us wiped until we agreed a deal with them, things got quite agreeable and friendly enough then Asteria returned to remove Code/Andes. So the question on "did we invite them" I suppose will be influenced by your perspective. To be honest, our focus should be on the future / current than the past."

MoD, MoFA, MoEd, Prime Minister.......not a peep!

PCP Congressmembers - Said there wasn't anything going on until the introduction of the mooted deal 6 days ago.

DISCORD, TELEGRAM, ingame PMS.........nope.


Maybe tomorrow when Peru is gone we might get the truth out of them but I seriously doubt it.

Didn't you like sent messages to various foreign leaders, and then sending me all their replies? And I myself wrote 6 or so replies to you in PM, and 20 or so here today, all in naught? I know you have trust issues with both UK gov. and foreign people, but that is no justification to be so hostile towards everyone and accusing them left and right.

Either way, fron "no information whatsoever", we have now gotten two copy-pasted mentions. Maybe after another 20 comments, more will accidentally appear.

And if you want to be a part of nation, who is extremely transparent with everything that happens, you can try and join NL 😛 (and there goes my promise on making this country more visible to foreign people, who are unhappy, where they are!)

I'm lucky to have a good mentor to answer all my annoying questions 😃

Not sure what the real issue is between you two other then the results of sleeping soul not being all you wanted to be but I can confirm that the only English player to be giving us any direction or explanation was Alfa UKSF.

When I grow up a bit then I might travel the world as I'm not sure the UK is a good place to play the game.

Politics and the likes are a cesspit, usually only corrupted souls here for a decade like myself can pretend to grasp it 😛

Indeed, keep upgrading at least your first Training Ground and more importantly drop all your hits in air fights, so you will soon be a formidable force there. As you probably know by now, that is almost impossible to achieve in ground battles at this stage. And perhaps I will fly with you in the future, whether as friend or (friendly) enemy o/

I think the comments above illustrate the cesspit very well now 😛 .

Pretty sure the invasion began more than six days ago

True that!

https://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-proposal-peace-treaty-with-andes-code-2708233