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When you post it up in the forums (Or if you want me to do it on your behalf) Please let me know so I can keep an eye on it 🙂

I always like lower taxes as it encourages personal growth for players. In this game that pretty much strengthens the individual in turn strengthening the country as well 🙂

It's posted.

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I agree with you 100% and hope these changes take place. Thank you for posting this in the forums.

So you want to lower the WT to help those with many companies and at the same time raise the VAT so that working people pay more for food and weapons? That will help me and my friends greatly. 🙂 The increased Import Tax will help me sell my Q7's for a higher price once the foreign competition is out of the way. Thanks bunches!

I want a stronger country, and lower WT benefits newbies the most.
Higher VAT does take the money from the big producers a bit more, and yeah totally in favor of lowering foreign competition. Why should ECan CC's go to other country businesses. This tax rate is still competitive and will still allow some of the countries to compete, but when they do, it will benefit Canada. Right now at 1%, they hinder our economy.

How does lower WT benefit new players?
How does higher VAT take money from big producers a bit more?

To answer your question, it is unfortunate that eCanada's cc go to other countries businesses. I don't like that. However if we raise Import tax too high, and we do not have foreign competition, some of the local producers can get greedy. This raises prices for the products the working class need to purchase.

It's a balancing act. We can try raising IT for awhile but should keep an eye on the market to make sure greedy people don't screw us over.

With increased prices, supply will increase to meet the demand, increased demand will push the prices back down. Markets will always find their equilibrium. The end result may be a marginal increase, but not a radical one.

Healthier markets mean more revenue. Strangling the market to squeeze pennies out is not as effective of growing a self generating revenue stream from a healthy market. The results may not be a instantaneous, but the end reward is significantly greater.

Smart plan to empower eCanadians Natster. Ignore Dill's trolling. He's very effectively shown himself the fool and should be ignored as such.

Prices adjust to the equilibrium, full stop. Q7 weapons sell for roughly $5.50 each. Raising the VAT won't raise the price because if prices do go up potential customers will move to another country where Q7s are selling for ~$5.50.

Assuming for a moment that we had a closed market, if prices short up by a few percentage over night we wouldn't see an uptick in production, we'd see lower consumption. If you've only got $5.50 to spend on weapons and the price goes up to $5.75 you can't buy that weapon. Adding up all those quarters would see a glut of weapons going unsold and prices falling back down to the equilibrium - ~$5.50. This is the price at which enough weapons produced are sold that producers don't continue to undercut others and sell for cheaper.

Of course that's all hypothetical because, again, eRep isn't a closed system - even if you were to increase the import tax - and as such prices won't rise.

If prices don't rise that means that any increase in VAT comes straight out of profits. Would producing weapons still be profitable then? Likely WAMing but potentially not for those companies currently employing others. That would normally mean that players would get fired, increasing the pool of potential labour and lowering the highest wage.

One other thing to keep in min😛 we are facing foreign competition. Players in other countries have more bonuses than we do. It sucks but there's only two things to be done about them, both unlikely: get more bonuses ourselves or make them lose theirs. These players sell at the same price as us but produce more for the same wage paid. Increased VAT rates would add another cost to our producers.

@Foxfire: Arriving at this discussion late. Increased demand bids prices up. As prices increase, demand for the product will fall.

Thedillpickl - this is why I'm not going to drop Work Tax to 1% right away. It would be gradual.
Lower work tax helps even a RAW producer. Plus, take home will always be higher.
I don't think this proposal is that drastic and the import tax is still lower than/on par with some of the other higher producing countries VAT.
As far as I can tell, an importer only pays import, they do not pay VAT. It's an either/or game.
I have sold at times on other markets to find out that this is the case. However, they may have changed that formula with recent updates.

I was not debating on the benefits or any negative aspects of your proposal. I was asking two direct questions regarding your statements, "...lower WT benefits newbies the most." and "Higher VAT does take the money from the big producers...". These are both clearly statements that are central to the issue and I would like a calcification of how they perform as you say. So I ask again. How does lower WT benefit new players? How does higher VAT take money from big producers?

I am not trying to be smart but the discussion cannot continue until you state the ground rules for your suppositions.

1) More people are working for wages than you realize. Hence why our average wage is so high (33.86).
Their current take home (average) = $32.17
Approx. WAM = 1.64
With taxes adjusted to 3% they will now see $32.84
Approx Wam = $1.02

So, more take home for the players and a little bit more cost effective on the WAM.

I'll focus on q7's
Right now, q7 goes for 5.48 per q7.
1% VAT = .0548 per tank
3% VAT = .1644 per tank (6 tanks sold makes up for lost WAM in revenues).

Imports from other countries get taxed at the same rate, but I propose that's not fair.
So, we tax them @ 4%.
4% VAT = .2192

This IMPORT is still low enough to compete with others' tax rates. So, we would ultimately benefit greatly.
A lower work tax enables a new player to take a bit more in their salary, as that is where they start. Current job rates are at $45.
Current WT has their take home @ 42.75
Proposed WT has their take home @ 43.65
Almost a full dollar more for take home.

To filter your response, changing WT to 3% will give the average worker about 20 energy worth of food per day (2 Q5) and raising VAT to 3% will cost them about 0.11 cc extra for each Q7 tank they buy.

So there is no real benefit to new players and VAT is passed on to the purchaser by the seller. Looks like a wash to me according to your numbers.

Counter proposal:
1) raise taxes across the board. Everything gets bumped up by min. 1% Hike import tax by more.
2) encourage noobs working for peanuts to find a slave pit (or commune if you want to use the hippie word) and work for tanks or food instead of money so they don't have to buy it. Then they can sell the surplus to the suckers.
3) eCanada makes bank, can fight wars.

hrmmm..., like that idea a bit. But still believe a lower Worker tax is beneficial.
I was thinking about raising houses by 1% as well.
Ultimately @ minimum peeps should consider the proposal for raising import taxes.
I do believe our work tax is a bit high. It is why I suggested a lowering of just 1% initially. Offset this with the import and VAT tax. increase. I don't want to raise imports that much. Plus, I could do a simple minimum wage increase to counter the drop in average wages. But, that's another discussion for another time.
A strong ECan economy is a strong ECan

Our economy is not strong right now. War is expensive and we've been waging one for months. We're broke and need tax income. If eUK makes good on their threat of another retaliatory wipe in the future, you'll get your 1% worker tax.

In the meantime, make hay while the sun shines: raise it to 6% and rebuild the depleted treasury. And keep it there until we get wiped again.

I think the question we need to ask is what for? Are we looking to spend less money on MPPs, COs, Training Ground Upgrades, Food Programs etc? I would be all for paying less for weapons and food, but then again, when I know I have dropped at times well above what our country has as a whole, in terms of COs for battles, I am weary of that. Basic question is, do we want Canada to have a bigger or smaller treasury. I am personally for a bigger treasury.

Also to note, everyone always says "for the newbs" but in my opinion, a new player is more likely to stay if a program or community connects with that person, gives them free food, lets them know whats going on, befriends them, and engages them into our community, versus a new player saying "What? I am paying $3 dollars less then before on this pile of 100 Q2 food? Oh yay!"

Also, work tax affects the more invested players as we tend to have a lot more companies to WaM then new players, so keeping work tax our bread and butter would be easy on "the newbs"

I suppose I'm too far removed from the situation. I'm too busy trying to explain cause and effect. Smoke has got to the real point and said it plain. New people are key to keeping Canada moving forward. Giving those new players something to do that is fun and engaging is more important than squeezing out a couple more cc per day to raise their wage by a few percent.

If you want to see people's income grow like crazy encourage people that pay real money for gold to invest in a commune. It's stupid expensive. I think the last time I figured it something like +3k gold for a fully supplied Q7 weap factory. (1 Q7 + 88 Q5 WRM) However expensive, once set up the employees (slaves, commune workers, whatever) can receive a minimum of 10 Q7 per day with a 0% bonus. At current market that's about 55 cc which is 10 cc higher than the best salary offered.

We now have our bonuses back and I'm currently supplying 14 Q7 per day.which is about 77 cc.

If it is true you want new players to have more money in their pocket from wages, tell them the truth. Tell them to take a minute, move to the eUS for ten minutes, accept a job there, and then move back. They will make about 5 bucks more every time they work. And that is after paying a 12 percent work tax. Even if you reduce the work tax to 0, you make more working in a high bonus country. You still live in canada, you still fight in canada, you produce and sell and have citizenship in canada. You just went to the US for two minutes, got a job there and moved back, just like when you move to fight.

Would be nice if we had concrete historical data about the amount and source of revenue. It is pretty clear, however, that the bulk of government revenue is from WorkTax. The bulk of the WorkTax revenue likely comes from WAMing, and that is going to fall off markedly because of the prevailing market prices.

Most important is the mistaken approach to tax policy adopted by this article. It is more sensible to start with the question: how much does the government need in revenue. Once that is established you can set your tax policy such that it meets the revenue requirements. Right now, revenues are about 10,000 per day or 300,000 per month: not much.

The only way to really make money, besides buying fcking gold, is to join an MU that gives you stuff so you dont spend what you make. Making 5 dollars a day more isnt going to get you anywhere, join a well off MU and upgrade training facilites whenever you can

Another sensible suggestion. 🙂

"It is more sensible to start with the question: how much does the government need in revenue."
*ding* *ding* *ding, ding, ding!*
We have a winner!!

Also to note, from the efforts I have made to analyze our tax breakdown, WT is by far where we get most of our money, so decreasing WT by 2% would require a much higher increase in VAT

At this point we should be considering raising the WT. Wars are expensive and we need the money not only for COs and tanks during war but for MPPs and the programs we run.

I would never like to see a WT rate of 1% in eCanada.

However much we increase the VAT, WT is where the bulk of the taxes come in. A raising of the VAT could help our own players and their products though yes.

Ship up and pay high taxes so i can push more buttons

Let's do like Switzerland and be neutral! We can be friends with everyone and sit on our asses with flowers in our hair singing Kumbaya. That way we can have zero tax because there is no need for MPP or CO. Love for our fellow man is all we need.

"All you need is love
All you need is love
All you need is love, love
Love is all you need

All you need is love, all together now
All you need is love, everybody
All you need is love, love
Love is all you need"

BULL CRAP!
Let's go blow sumptin up!!

Due to more detail numbers requested, I have revised to just focus on the import tax. Only raising import tax to 3% on imports for now.

So, driving off the five or six foreign exporters here who sell to our tiny market because we have minimal taxes and prices that are competitive with those in their home region.

No sir, this would not scare them away. A lot of our importers pay 5% vat on their markets, so 3% is still competitive.

v&s

Thank you.