South Korea and Selling Our Regions?
Brian Boru
In case you didn't realise, our President has decided to give South Korea two regions via airstrike in order to insure they have a congress this month.
You might be forgiven for being unaware of this, considering that the little fact is buried in a Presidential update concerning other matters, that no consultation with the public has been made on the matter, and that no referendum on the rental was even planned. So today, the Irish people wake up to find two of their regions have been given to another country without so much as a word towards asking them whether they want such an arrangement.
The response to these problems
The President's response to criticism along these lines has been to say that there was no time to hold a referendum, that the South Koreans came to us too late. My response is relatively simple: That's not our problem.
The South Koreans could have come to Aurora earlier, giving us plenty of time to organise a referendum. They could wait a month while we organise one now. There was plenty of time to consider the wishes of the Irish people, and there still is plenty of time. The current state of affairs is therefore unacceptable.
The President of Ireland has exactly zero right to hand regions of the country to other nations without consultation with the people by a referendum, with the exception of war manoeuvres for the direct defence of our country. The reasons for this are dead easy to understan
😛Such measures by necessity require the cooperation of the Irish people, they can have consequences for our country that have to be considered publicly, and the President cannot be given the power to sell parts of our country off alone because that is a dangerous concentration of power in the hands of one person. Similarly, the Dáíl cannot do the same collectively as territories are too important to exclude the people's wishes, so leaving it to a vote of congresspeople would also be a dangerously unrepresentative move.
Presidential Power
I'm sure there will be people who say the President has some right to do this given the alliance implications, that he is Supreme Commander of the Irish Army, and that the South Korean cause is just.
The alliance doesn't have the right to claim our regions without our consent, and the President giving them that right is another dangerous power balance issue. The Supreme Commander of the Irish Army cannot order our troops to fight against our nation without a clear strategic need for it, and as this can easily be done next month after we've talked about this, there is no strategic need for it. The South Korean cause may be just, but there are possible consequences for our nation as well, factors that the people themselves should decide upon.
There is also the problem of the impeachment. Mirek has no popular mandate to do anything this radical, he was not elected and he is a caretaker President. His job was to keep things ticking over until we could select our President democratically.
Óglaigh na hÉireann
As no referendum on the loss of our national territory has been held, as no information as to the price we have been given for our sacrifice, and for the utter arrogance shown by the current administration towards the people for not even bothering to have a separate article explaining the situation in detail, there is only one thing a conscientious Irish person can do.
The minute the South Korean AS lands on our soil, I will fight it like any other foreign invasion; with everything I have.
That may not be much, it may just be a raindrop in the ocean of damage, but the government has given me no other choice. Our traditions and principles of government have been violated, and soon, our national territory will too.
Éirinn go Brách, comrádaí.
Comments
Also why two regions? hy not one
Why*
I would presume that's to insure the regions stay in Korean hands long enough to insure congress. If it's just one region, the enemy can flood the battle with big hitters and ruin the plan, I would presume.
Congress voted, most supported it as its a new source of capital for the country.
The country is governed by game mechanics, there is no obligation to hold a referendum as there is no constitution to be altered. Referendums are merely opinion polls in eRep that act as security for a CP before he/she makes a big boy decision. (Source: Hank Scorpio's BroLaw 101)
I voted yes because South Korea is offering us friendship & pixie dust monies for make believe fairyland regions.
I addressed that point, congress doesn't have the right, and how can Congress make an informed decision without hearing the views of others anyway?
Referendums are as you describe, but that's precisely the point. Why should any ordinary Irish person follow the CP or the Congress if they clearly don't give a fuck about the opinions of the ordinary citizen? Not an article or a thread with serious discussion on this, it's nonsense.
Pixie dust monies for make-believe fairyland regions, yet we all put decent time into the game, so we shouldn't have decisions like this handed down to us like we're fucking peasants.
Their occupation will not affect you so much as an ordinary citizen.
An Sluagh, I live in eCork. Yes it will affect me. Get a better deal for a different region. eCork is not a spot on a Monopoly game board.
Also, you'll find not a single mention of any constitution.
This is the first article against it.
Ill read all opinions posted here.
The decision is already made Hank, it's a bit too late for reading opinions now.
Also lad, the exact amount of money we're being given hasn't been published.
I think people should have the right to decide whether they think it's enough money to be ordered to fight against their own country. I have confidence that people would vote in favour, but it's just acting like a cunt to pretend that they shouldn't be asked or even told what's going on until it's too late.
This is a game
Cork is a square on the board
eSK is rolling to land on it
If they do they will pay the rental
Not so different from monopoly tbf
When will we receive information on the Irish Armies expenses (easily understandable) and also I would like to know how we made money this 2 month if all our money was hidden from Daniel Plainview?
Trading operations. Can do that from my citz account. Can't do that from the orgs actually.
Bory is totally right by the way this could yet again affect who gets into congress. I am in a nice spot now and will have to leave reapply again . What regions is planned? Info please.
Also handing over regions without consultation sounds like something an orc will do
Actually, the congress thing isn't a bad point... I didn't think of that.
The fact your here so long and don't know what regions are viable for rental is just another illustration of your ineptitude.
oh really we had no details so you made assumptions. does this make you a guru of predicting what regions we are leasing out.
Awareness of our local border mechanics
We've also had previous rental, you were here for them.
There's also that other article up stating which regions are being rented...
So yes, I'm fkn magic...
If the government isn't allowed to make tactical decisions, then there is F-all point in having a government.
I think you're wrong, this article is stupid, and you're making a dick-move fighting against them.
This has fuck all to do with tactical decisions. We are not directly engaged against the RoC. Or anyone else. This decision didn't need to be rushed, but it was and it shows: Citizens haven't been informed as to exactly what is happening, how long is the rental for? How much are we getting? What obligations for maintaining the agreement do they have? Soldiers have been ordered to fight for SK without so much as a consultation as to how they feel about hosting a country with four to five times the population.
Mirek hasn't even seen fit to inform us what regions they'll be taking.
Though admittedly, eSK is probably full of bots.
Ya know, you have none of the qualities I would desire in an ally Brian...
Sweet, I understand you're backing the government's play, but understand you're backing a play that everyone has to get in on but no one is fully informed of. Please tell me you understand the obvious problem with that...
When has everyone ever gotten in on anything?
There are obv problems with everything.
Governments that respond quickly and decisively are to be commended.
Governments who respond quickly and decisively are to be commended? More rhetoric there Sweet, I thought you were beyond such politik.
Governments who respond correctly are to be commended. Entering into a rental deal without consulting anyone outside of congress, and then not telling anyone what was going to happen exactly is not a government responding quickly and decisively. It's a government rushing around with its arse on fire after one had been lit under its ass by circumstance.
I'm not the one politicking here BB....
Decisive government is not rhetoric. It's everything I've ever stood for.
Toilet-roll codebooks are your domain.
Praising decisive government to cover for governmental incompetence is rhetoric Sweet haha
Codebooks, as I said to Hank, have fuck all to do with it. What's happened is stupidity and not trusting the people to even have a word in. Admittedly, the public can be bloody obstinate sometimes, but that's hardly an excuse.
I don't see government incompetence here.
What I do see is the SG of Labour calling a decision 'retarded' that was most likely agreed to by:
The MoFA (Labour member)
The PM (Labour member)
Labour's VP
Labour's Spokesman
And you're accusing the government of not thinking things through?
gl with that 😁
my problem is the shady characters that drew up this: mrconway (part of a theft), mirek(known thief), seanan(all around noob)
^ recently involved in a failed theft attempt.
Krakken, seriously, the shady characters of which I am still very fond won't be within a barge pole's length of the money at any time....
None of the Labour members of Cabinet are responsible for keeping the public informed and getting their opinion. That is the job of our national leader.
I don't blame the Cabinet for organising it, I blame the President, Cabinet and Congress collectively for just going ahead with it without a word in public until it was all settled. The President is the most to blame, because it's his bloody job to keep people informed.
Srsly Brian.... don't make me come over there...
Sweet, let's not pretend you'd be capable of harming me haha
Though I might want you to come over so I can ask you why after two years of occupation without you saying so much as a word about them, the Koreans show up with a big fat paycheck, and suddenly you're their bleeding-heart advocate and they're allies deserving of two regions and a media BJ.
Tricky issue, indeed, with several points of non-consensus. However, I would imagine Congress had notice and say in this. I do agree the Irish people should have gotten some notice about the issue, but I also see the difficulty about doing a referendum so quickly with time as a pressing issue.
However, I for one am rather proud that my ecountry will help eSK in such a fundamental manner. eSK is one of the best and most loyal allies one can have, even if their current population is small, they never, not once in my eLife, have been full of themselves, forgetful of their friends and alliances, or even rude or insensitive to their alliance's and friends needs. They fight hard and well, they would be a much greater nation on the map if it were not for RoC. I remember, while being a e.young little mexican, they were desperate to liberate some regions, they truly live e.oppressed. Most youngsters (there were no divisions in those times, so we were close to nothing in dmg) helped and they did not fuzz about us not being strong or anything, and always they would come an help when we were falling asleep, often bringing half of Indonesia with them. eSK is one of the only countries left in my book that is a great ally without any "but's" attached.
However, I am aware this issue is not about SKs characteristics. It is about Ireland's people not being informed properly, which yes, is a mess up. A little birdy told me México wanted to help SK, but the Irish option was somehow better. Either way, I think it is a good thing for Ireland, even if the government failed to do its duty to its people by informing, because Ireland takes on a role of conjugating the efforts of smaller countries of AURORA once again, instead of fighting as usual for the big one. This benefit helps Ireland as a nation a lot. The government, on the other hand, must deal with the internal political consequences of their haste, and that really depends on the people, what and how will they do it.
I for one
will fight strong for SK.
Voted!
eSK's merits are irrelevent, I'm sorry to say.
We agreed to this without consultation of how anyone outside congress feels about it. That is simply not on where our national territory is concerned.
An ally's merits are never irrelevant.
I agree it is a national politics problem; but if we go against it massively we would be hurting our alliance in the sense that Irish Gov (CP and Congress) have approved it, that means that for international matters Ireland has approved it and AURORA counts on our government's word.
I do understand, sympathize and agree that there needed to be some information to the people about this (also, it should have been in the form of a mass mp, because shouting this or making it super public all over the place before time would kill it), indeed, we are talking about a convened invasion of our country.
And most definitely I think that who is not in agreement should have a right to say so and act accordingly, but I also agree with Sweet Drinker a bit: it is the government who represents Ireland (us) at the international and alliance level, we elected them democratically (we like it or not) to give them such responsibilities and abilities, if they mess up at any level, it is to the irish people to whom they must answer.
I am curious to see how this panes out.
'Pans out', not 'Panes out' 😛
The saying comes from sifting river beds for gold.
"Panning for gold"
Hahahaha! Thanks for the correction. 😃
Sweet, that's rhetoric. The merits of our ally aren't for congress alone to decide if it involves factors that every citizen will have a stake in. The national territory and rental obligations/rewards being two obvious ones there. The government doesn't have the right to sell our regions in a day without consultation or informing our people, because that's retarded. Let's all expect the rest of the country to know what's going on by osmosis and simply pray that the government respects their opinion on a key national issue.
Coyo, I'm saying it's too late, it's a fait accompli, which is precisely why I'm pissed about it and why I intend to protest by fighting against eSK. The government and congress pulled this out of their ass, didn't even bother to tell anyone beyond a cursory warning with zero detail in the middle of a CP Update, and now we have members of Congress and the Cabinet backing the play when the public is still gracefully unaware of the key details. None of which would be possible if shit was done appropriately.
I agree with you about being pissed off about the zero info. I would be too, but the fact that it is SK for me changes the situation: Ireland will benefit much more from this than what it will temporarily loose. And in that sense, personally I see no need to get my head warm about it.
But I am glad to see some citizens saying "what the hell?"
1st off: regions cannot be sold, only rented. We still own them.
2n😛 IDC what the rental price is, helping allies is not about money
3r😛 MoD released an article about getting SK a Congress 2 days ago.
I'm not in any gov thread, yet the implication seemed pretty obv tbh.
That's why I like referendums for this sort of thing, you can't back out of international agreements because you fuck up your reputation doing it, so these sorts of things have to be asked of the people generally, not the dry shites in congress.
eSK being a great bunch of lads doesn't excuse our government being retarded Coyo, it really doesn't.
It does not excuse it, I agree, but at least they are not letting I dunno, Argentina or some massive mess up in. I don't let it bug me because overall, it pans out (saw that sweet drinker? hehe!) rather great for Ireland. It could have very well been a double mess up: international and internal. On the internal level, I think that what is gonna happen is that those who are in disagreement of the way this was done, will never again vote for some people in the gov, and will probably be rather against them politically, which is good for Ireland also, because to be meaningfully against some one in the political area of this game, just means more activity in the module, which is a good thing.
So yeah, overall, this works out very well for Ireland in all matters.
Whether or not it pans out well for Ireland shouldn't be a matter for congress alone to decide, is the bottom line. It's not a small decision, we deserve some place to talk about it officially at the very least if not a referendum. Fuck, I would have settled for a dedicated article from the President.
You should come to live in Mexico RL, society's and democracy's rights need a defender like you man. 🙂