On the Illegal 5% Work Tax
Hale26
Hello America,
As most of you either noticed during your Regularly scheduled WAM clicks, or by following Congress’ debate board, a new WT has came into play. Following a 32-4 vote, a 5% Work Tax proposed by myself has came into law.
…Or, at least, that is what it would seem the large majority of our population. Being the one who proposed this tax, I’d like to do a quick elaboration on what exactly that law for 5% WT is. Looks in this case are very deceiving.
Firstly, Congress has a regulated means we use to pass laws. They must be proposed in the Public (or Private, though that board hasn’t been used in awhile ) Congress and be subjected to 24 hours of discussion, minimum. Following that, they must move to Proposal, gain the support of 10 Congressmen and then pass a vote. The vote must hit quorum, and of course, pass the required majority/super-majority depending on circumstance.
None of that was done for this law.
See, that whole process can take between 2-5 days, lets say. That would be 2-5 days of a 25% WT that is killing our citizen’s. Since no one wanted that, a plan was devised. Very late on the 25th, Myself, Evry (AMP) and Tyler B. (Feds) agreed that we would not be keeping the WT at 25% while Congress debated. Wildowl (USWP) also agreed that this was fine, though later on since he wasn’t on at the time.While we do want debate on this law, don’t get me wrong. But the debate should not hurt our country. That is sadly what it would do if we followed Congressional law.
The agreement was that we would get one of our Congressmen on early in the morning, right after Mods had given Congressional access ingame, and propose a WT. This would prevent an AFA sh*t-show, and more importantly, lower the WT while we debated. This leads us the what most people are up in arms about….
We agreed to lower it to 5%. Not 1. Not 3. But, 5.
Now, if this were a real law, some people would be rightfully mad. 5%, after all the suffering we endured last month? Why not lower it to 1 while the debate is going on? Why FIVE?
Based on what the 3 of us had heard (Supposed to be 4, but I couldn’t find WildOwl (USWP) on IRC because he’s a sane person that doesn’t stay up late. I apologized to him for this), the debate was between 1 and 5. So our options were, of course, between 1 and 5.
We choose 5 because it was the most neutral option in the current debate. If we had put it to 1, now the people who want 5 will want a tax increase. In reality, no one wants an increase; They want a fair rate, since we’ve never had a rate of our choosing before. If we lowered to one, we’d be not only breaking the law, but fuelling our debate with rhetoric.
As congressmen, it is our responsibility to protect the elected official’s debate. We are not going to open the door to empty rhetoric, be it from the 5 side or the 1 side.
I mean, if we’re breaking the law to do something good, we need to keep something intact. Or else then we’re just playing (unwanted) politics with a very sensitive issue.
In short, five was chosen because it least influenced the opinions and thoughts of the current Congress, while protecting our citizen’s from what would be unneeded costs of e-Democracy. This measure is momentary and protected both Congress’ Delibirations and our citizenry.
That being said; I still did break the rules. Anyone who breaks Congressional Rules must be put up for censure, which has already been done at DMV’s recommendation and my request.
I hope this explanation shows why 5% was the best rate to use while debate in Congress went on. I know a lot of that whole “Tax Increase Rah Rah” thing seems empty, but America...this is Congress. If rhetoric can be used, it will be. Nobody wants unnecessary rhetoric, not even some of our hardest politikers.
In the immediate future we will see a new rate passed that takes into account all of our Congress’ Opinions. But for now, the damage has been lessened. Neutrality, let alone far fetched neutrality, is never popular. Neverless, I hope this clears some things up.
~Hale26
eUSA Congress-Gecko.
Aside~ I’d like to again apologize to the Congress Delegation of the USWP. This measure, despite its deep thinking, had massive time restraints. I would’ve contacted WildOwl if I could about it, but the time just wasn’t there. I’ve apologized to WildOwl personally about this, and while he may still be pissed at me, I hope you can see that the USWP wasn’t not talked to out of Malice, but rather, due to Time Restraints. Though, more could’ve and should’ve been done to try and reach out to the USWP. Most of this conspired in extreme times of day, however, so my Human Error as consequence to that is to blame.
Aside 2~ Still confused as to the reasoning behind the momentary measure? Want to yell at me for a reason, or, for no reason? The HALE, WTF DID YOU DO!?! hotline is at your service, ladies and gents. I’m god-awful at PM responses but I’ll try to get back to you asap.
Comments
Hopefully this can help clear up some of what's been heard. The case is hard to make, let alone take in, but if you take nothing else from this remember that the measure is momentary.
We will find an ideal tax. Just going to take time.
Its cool. Voted for an accurate summarisation of events.
Fast reaction, well done!
good to know, thx for the explanation
A gentleman and a scholar. Well...ok, a gecko, anyway.
I like most of what you said/did, with one small exception... you are framing the debate as being between 1% and 5%, meanwhile some of the senior Economic Council & Department of Defense people involved in the discussions are trying to explain why the target rate should be at 8%, 10%, or higher. Framing the entire discussions as being between 1% and 5% may accurately represent the early stages of the discussions, but given the more recent discussions it doesn't accurately cover the field of opinions.
Aside from that, good work on the quick decision and proposal there by all the party presidents.
Aye, the advice has shifted. And in good time, so will the frame of debate. (Once people get used to the whole "Revenue Target" concept. Like I told Kemal, this may take a little bit)
At the given time it was between 1 and 5. Now that it's 8 and 10....well then. The end goal of protecting the integrity of debate in its given frame was met but....now that the frame has changed, I suppose our hope of minimal empty rhetoric is less realistic.
Neverless, we still have managed to keep eAmerica unpunished while minimally influencing the debate with the 5% proposal, it being a middle ground. Though our goal has been pushed off a little it was still achieved to an extent. Also, throwing out that there *will* be no rhetoric here (or, even, acknowledging rhetoric is a thing) aids to our goal.
Plus, I only got slightly murdered for 5. I pray for the Congressman who may have to approve 10 xD
(See, this is why I'm happy I'm down to my reserve proposal :3)
Well, guess I will never consider the US as a place to come back to. Work tax at 8 or 10% is ridiculous.
Your tax has to be competitive or people will just leave for a lower tax Jurisdiction. Sounds like your senior economic council are all living in a fantasy game that you cannot move around in, instead of this game.
Exalted Druid, according to the perfect competition argument, 0 citizens would be remaining in the eUS whenever it had less than %100 weapons bonuses. Marvelously, that doesn't seem to be the case.
Kemal bonuses don't mean a whole lot in this broken economy. That is why taking CC directly out of the business owner's pocket does.
All this so the government can give our money to other players. Everyone including members of the USAF should buy their own damn gold like the rest of us have to.
All I'm saying is that a "work tax" makes me sorry I bothered to build a self supplying commune. The only place it makes sense to have WRM companies to supply a Q7 weapons factory now is in a govt' commune. The money spent on work tax there is simply returned by the govt. Any private commune (or silly person who still tries to hire workers) is screwed.
One less facet of the ever shrinking game is the private commune/company. Long live the fascist govt., of the govt., by the govt., and for the govt. Amen.
I thought PTOers do that in the countries they PTO so they could stay with bots only...
Kemal - you are assuming that people act rationally...
1) Leave the WT 5% for one week. Collect the data about revenue.
2) Put it on 4%, leave it there for a week. Collect data. Analyse if it is +/- regarding the 20% decrease*
3) Put it on 2%, leave it there for a week. Collect data. Analyse if it is +/- regarding the 50% decrease*
4) Put it on 1%, leave it there for a week. Collect data. Analyse if it is +/- regarding the 50% decrease*
5) Put it on 3%, leave it there for a week. Collect data. Analyse if it is +/- regarding the 66,66% increase*
6) Put it on 6%, leave it there for a week. Collect data. Analyse if it is +/- regarding the 50% increase*
* comparing the revenue of the current month to that of the last month
That should be enough data to set the WT somewhere between 1-6%, based on "real" data.
Everything else would be taxing the country to death.
Deficit spending should be resolved by reforming the USAF parallel with finding a workable tax solution.
Sadly we don't live in a bubble where the only thing that effects revenue is the tax rate.
Looks like Loland will be much influential.
If they get mad at the temporary drop, they can give back the temporary money received at the higher level?
I am new, but by my reading, it seems the admins change stuff a lot in this game. Wouldn't an emergency measure also be something that should be brought up for future things like this?
And on that note, is there really this much red tape that a temporary plan couldn't have been ready for the first day of congress?
Wasn't this change done more than a week ago by the admins?
We weren't able to influence the decision due to our having no Congress. So while there was timid movement to start a discussion, not much got done since the pressing-ness that influence brings (actually having a Congress with proposals) wasn't there.
I wouldn't call it red tape but....yes. What I did was illegal. That being said, I've read through the code a bit and it seems that if you get SoH approval, you're set. That being said, Molly wasn't on either.
As long as we remember to always look at the laws, but remember that organizations (as in RL) are governed by people, our current law passing process is more than fine imo.
As for giving back the money; no one has set up tracking for that, so it's impossible.
I still see no reason for this not to be discussed by the carry over congress beforehand.
Since there's no "tracking" done yet, how can any of you make a decision?
This sounds more and more insane (no offense to to Hale).
As for the returning of the money, I was being sarcastic. Everyone knows the government does not give up what it has once it gets it. I was pointing to the stupidity of a censorship of you for thinking on your feet. Even if it is the congressional law.
Ah, alright. Sorry bout that mate. And yes, there is tracking; Just not tracking of the sorts that knows how much each commune gave lol.
Rest assured; Income is being tracked.
And luckily for me, my censure looks to be defeated. Goooo not getting censured \o/.
not read it all just the bold stuff
but in this case it is good to not do the usual procedure and just lower the tax as fast as possible to lower the burden on the citizens - so it doesn't sound illegal but smart.
now with lower tax you have all time of the world to debate or to see by trial and error which %-rate works best in your country
Way I see it, in short, relief was needed for the populace. This is a new tax system placed on a country that was at the time without congress, so there was no clean way to handle it in a timely fashion WITHIN proper procedure once we regained congress. As such, a neutral rate close to the debated target was chosen.
I've no hard feelings and I feel that this was a necessary action handled as well as it could be by one who's never betrayed the eUS.
We should all enjoy the reduced rate while it lasts, but people needn't accuse congress of greed if we need to increase the rate. I honestly feel a 10% rate would have been preferable for the sake of skipping any outcry later if we need to settle on a rate over 5% and we almost certainly will, but 5% sits far more easily than 1%.
short term relief while the long term solution is debated.
what part of that is so wrong?
BURN THE WITCH! STONE HIM! CRUCIFY HIM!
oh, get over yourselves, Congress.
if you don't Propose (and Approve-- 24 hours), Discuss (24 hours) and Vote (24 hours) to whatever % you deem correct, and have it on the books and in action within 72 hours of o6:01 Day 2106.. then screw you all. bitch that something was done without you, but turn around and not do it in the most timely manner, yourselves..?
Yep. See also my comments above 😉
It is all on the public forum. Not a single congress critter has voted to censure.
Aye. Congress has seen reason to this. That's something I've /no/ problem with. I'm willing to submit and call for judgement, but being uncensored is always nice lol.
I was going to say something positive but I can see that the govt. is still greedy. I would never come back to the US if 5% work tax is considered low.
[removed]
RUUUUUDE!
IMPEACH!
Gavel gavel gavel gavel.
ilu2 Oblige
I may be new to congress, but I applaud what you did, you did what you thought was right for the country even when you know you will get in trouble. You also are ready to face the consequence of your action. I hope to be half as good as you.
All the taxes are illegal "On the Illegal 5% Work Tax" There was no vote from the country, but that would end up being rigged from all the multies.
\0/....
No need to make excuses or over explain, you took action that was needed. It will be fine tuned later, thank you for taking fast action, it was correct to do so.
I can live with 5% if the money is used in support of wars and active players.
That's really what I'd like to know -- what are the plans for this money.
Easy, the plans are for them to get a big cut out of that money in their pockets!
*uncensured
good work, Hale et al
Stupid rules - always getting in the way of sensible actions and in-game things! No external forum has the right to restrict Congress members like this. Hale26 did the right thing and should not have to apologize.
However, let's look at this in terms of reality:
1. Something had to be done. The country was crying out for tax relief. It was clearly an emergency measure.
2. Congress can and should be at work from the instant of the election, including having necessary motions proposed and voted upon.
3. Everyone made it clear that further discussion would occur on the ongoing tax rate.
4. The vote PASSED overwhelmingly. That is a de-facto defeat of any "censure" intention.
5. "Censure" or criticism should be reserved for HARMFUL actions like giving citizenship to enemy citizens, sabotaging treaties or MPPs, or interfering with the ordinary process of administration such as Congressional donation. Any other in-game action, including impeachment motions, are in-game statements and proposals made by the representatives of voters who participated in the election. Many of what are called "illegal" actions, despite being legal in-game, are better categorized as stupid or inappropriate actions.
6. Common sense prevailed in the Congress room of the forums. However, many individuals with no business to speak in there did muddy the waters a little. While the room is public, posting should be reserved to Congress members only.
My ass hurts less already....
You did well.
I hope you are not censured.
FINALLY someone admits this tax is illegal! Hale26 you have my appreciation for this.
AFA congressmen will propose this month only laws for a 1% tax, we want the government to take as little as possible from the hard earned money of each eUS citizen.
AFA also plans to give 35 gold to 1000 eUS citizens in order for them to make a q5 weapon raw material company. People ask how can we accomplish this,we do not have any money to spend on that, this is a AFA lie. It is not a lie, it is actualy quite simple, we will stop subsidizing the military, as in many other country the military will have to make due with it's comunes. Each month with this money 1000 citizens will recieve 35 gold to make a q5 wrm company.
Vote for AFA!
Help us help you!
if only you could be a bit less obvious.
That's over 7 MILLION CC per month worth of gold. We didn't pull that much in with a 25% work tax, and you think you can pull that off with a 1% work tax?
Oh god, my sides are in orbit.
How much cc does go to the military? have you ever heard of VAT?
Way less than that, the information is available publicly.
The government hasn't pulled in that kind of money since the worldwide economy crashed.