Eristic, or How (Not) to Argue
Eikyuu
Despite my readers being fervent fans of numbers, tables, equations and complex graphs, I have decided to make a short jump into humanities for a refreshing break. This will still be connected to logic but on the social grounds of discourse, which is such an important aspect of erepublik and the internet in general.
It is a subject that goes back thousands of years of course, so I think it would be appropriate to introduce some classics, rather than trying to rediscover the wheel. This has the obvious advantage of appealing to the widest audience, who do not need to take my word for what is considered appropriate argumentation.
A particularly well known treatise on this subject is Schopenhauer's The Art of Being Right containing 38 ways to win a debate. It is freely (and legally) available online here. Many of the ways are actually fallacious arguments which the author analyses to help spot and refute when our opponent uses them. The book often ironically presents these underhand techniques as real tools for debate.
I encourage you to read the whole thing, for it is not very long, but for immediate use I have chosen some of the chapters, focusing on spurious arguments, and summarize them below (with original stratagem numbers in parentheses). The examples I provide are not meant to express my judgement on any particular real situations with the help of the book. Rather, I meant to use the erepublik context we share, to help you better understand the book.
Needless to say, you will find this extremely useful in the upcoming presidential election and the articles, comments and debates that will follow. See if you can spot and point them out to your cheating adversary. Spoiler: "B" stands for the "Bad guy" here.
1. Generalizations and Out of Context Reasoning. (Stratagems I, II, III and XI.)
While it might not be possible to attack a specific claim, it can always be generalized to include so many cases or possibilities that the whole proposal begins to sound ridiculous. Instead of attacking the specific one, attack the absurd general version. Another version would be to change the meaning of what someone is saying or talk about something superficially similar.
Example 1:
A: This training war is costing us too much.
B: You're wrong, training wars give gold through medals.
A: I said this not all wars.
Example 2:
A: The Chinese members of the Diet are wrecking our economy.
B: Wow, you racist, you discriminate against Chinese people!
A: No, I meant those members of the Diet who happen to be Chinese, not the Chinese nation.
2. Metaphors and Catchy Names. (Stratagems XII, XXXII.)
When the matter under discussion has no concrete name it is advantageous to be the first to name it. The word chosen might evoke particular negative emotions or be remotely used to some known hated politician or doctrine (usually with -ism).
Example 1:
A: How about we use government funds to help all citizens with donations?
B: It sounds like communism, and you know how that ended.
Misc. Examples: "Whoever didn't vote for us is a traitor", "You value Japanese tradition, so you probably support fascism like they did in WW2.", "Their newspaper released another batch of propaganda."
3. Claim Victory, Even Despite Defeat. (Stratagems XIV, XX.)
Usually there will be questions in a debate, used to clarify, advance and to make sure you are on the same page. But instead of waiting for an answer the adversary might answer seemingly rhetorical questions and pretend that was our answer. Worse yet, they can proclaim they just won trying to take advantage of more polite or shy people.
Example 1:
B: If I get the raw materials for free, and sell food for 0.03, would you buy it? Of course you would, so I make profit, and you have to accept the whole setup.
A: Actually, no, because you forgot to include the salary and tax, so let's go back and check more carefully.
Example 2:
B: So how are you so sure you are right? You are in fact wrong! So stop arguing because whatever you say is not going to change it.
A: You only said I was wrong, you are yet to demonstrate it.
4. Attack Someone's Background. (Stratagem XVI.)
Instead of treating the argument itself, it might be possible to attack the person's background, using their friends, statements or actions, even if this is not related directly to the matter at hand. It is known as ad hominem not to be confused with ad personam, which aims to make angry or humiliate. It has also be noted, that someone's reputation might be of importance, e.g. when choosing a Minister of Finance, we obviously care if they have stolen in the past. In general, however, the specific argument has to be distinguished from who and how is describing it.
Example 1:
A: ... and that is why Belgium would be a good ally.
B: Wait a minute, didn't you fight against Belgium in the last war?
A: Yes, but that was a training war and both sides fought together on both sides, as planned.
Example 2:
A: The current situation in Japan is terrible.
B: You are Japanese yourself! Why don't you give up the citizenship and go elsewhere?
A: Precisely because I care and want to improve it here.
5. Changing the Subject and Disruption. (Stratagem XVIII, XXIX.)
A very common diversion tactic, usually employed with personal arguments, to argue against someone on completely different grounds. That can then seemingly taken as proof that the original argument was won. Very often this turns into a blame game ("You did that too!"). When cornered, the adversary might simply interrupt the whole debate.
Example 1:
A: You stole the military unit together with its funds.
B: Life's hard, everybody steals.
Example 2:
A: We agreed to share the cabinet positions.
B: But your last article on Japanese alphabets had really poor fonts chosen...
A: That has nothing to do with the ministry of finance.
B: Bah, you clearly disqualify yourself as a candidate and interlocutor, I refuse to discuss this any further!
6. The Democratic Argument. (Stratagem XXVIII.)
Known as argumentum ad auditores this relies on using the audience to decide in a debate which involves experts. Usually the subject requires some specialist knowledge or skill, although the result affects everybody. By making the audience laugh or appealing to common sense one can appear to win by having the popular support, while the other side, who tries to show the true but counterintuitive facts, remains misunderstood. However, this is not to say that nothing can be decided by popular vote – the congress seats being the obvious counterexample. Some things do rely on majority's opinion or intuition, as the next stratagem shows.
Example 1:
A: If we want to steadily earn money we have to carefully keep track of how we use them.
B: What a boring task, this is supposed to be a fun game, right? Who's with me?
Crow😛
WE WANT FUN!
Example 2:
A: It would help the economy if we raised taxes, and the salaries at the same time, so that [details follow] and everybody benefits.
B: Workers do you like higher taxes?
Employees: Of course not!
B: Managers do you want to pay the workers more?
Employers: Never!
7. Appeal to (Unknown) Authority. (Stratagems XXX, XXXI.)
Many rules are here to make things orderly and lives easier, but they cannot apply in all possible cases. Sometimes the law fails, people are framed and criminals set free. The scientific and economic theories change with time. Insisting that a particular case must be treated according to tradition is an argument from authority, which could simply be game rules but also entrenched prejudice. Often those trying to avoid moral responsibility appeal to it.
Example 1:
A: Neither the congress nor the government approves of this law.
B: Officially you have a dictator and he gets the deciding vote.
A: You will hurt lots of people with this.
B: Sorry, my hands are tied, I have to abide by the game mechanics.
Example 2:
A: You know the gold was not transferred, due to the bug, why can't you give me back the money in Yen?
B: But the support says it's not an bug, so who am I to judge? Must be something wrong with your PC.
Exapmle 3:
A: We should act carefully.
B: Don't be such a sissy and act like a real man.
8. Personal and Emotional Attacks. (Stratagems VIII, XXVII, XXXVIII.)
Also known as ad personam, Schopenhauer entitled the 38th chapter The Ultimate Stratagem, and it comes as no surprise that this is more or less the popular trolling, and is sadly 90% of conversations. There are enough dirty tricks that can be used here for a whole series of articles, and many of them require a trip into psychology, not just rhetorics. The basic tactics includes anything that makes people angry, uncomfortable or ashamed. Even though it is so common, there is not much to be said about its essence – it is both brutally effective, as it acts on the "unconscious" (hence ultimate) and brutally transparent for it carries no real contents.
Examples:
"So young, so naive.", "Go back to school, kid.", "Your arguments are as foul as your face." "Your mother was not very conscientious whilst choosing whom to acquaintance herself with intimately.", "Boo hoo, stop crying that I stole from you.", "Don't tell me what to do you hypocrite piece of manure and just stfu.", etc., etc.
Schopenhauer treats it as a method of sidetracking the discussion or agitating someone so that they makes a mistake, he is not interested in flaming for the sake of flaming. This argument is ultimate also in the sense that it is the last resort when real ones fail. In case of trolls the emotional part (the technical term is drama) is the goal in itself, and often the discussion is doomed from the start. Accordingly, his book does not go as low as to discuss opponents who contradict themselves, use racial or homophobic slurs or mangle grammar on purpose. An interesting specimen is the preemptive tactic of declaring any discussion as drama or trolling to prevent being proven wrong – this falls into point 5. The other, more contemporary methods might be a subject for another article. As for this one, having a real debate at heart, I leave you with Schopenhauer's own advice:
A cool demeanour may, however, help you here, if, as soon as your opponent becomes personal, you quietly reply, "That has no bearing on the point in dispute," and immediately bring the conversation back to it, and continue to show him that he is wrong, without taking any notice of his insults.
Comments
Am I ay chicken?
Only if it is true that we are what we eat 😎
v+e
So, I guess that "A" can stand for "awesome guy" or some might even say "as*hole".
Love the examples. 🙂
Ha, it's true that the one coldly addressing the subject, pointing out mistakes will usually be called the a-hole or at least arrogant. That's the argument 6. in disguise: we, ordinary people don't like those who think they are better. Because there are also haughty people who make empty arguments, hoping to fool with the cold appearance. On the other hand, trying to make jokes in arguments one risks being called a baiter or troll. Hard to please everyone at the same time...
I agree, but I think one can never stay totally detached from the subject at hand or above the influence of emotion. Whether its the supposedly-arrogant party or the supposedly-inferior one.
One can even get a hint of argument 8. from your examples..which is one of the reasons I like them. 🙂
But I never sugested one should try to be detached from the subject. If only people stayed on point it would be easier. But I'm sure you know arguments which left the subject in favour of mother comments 😉
With emotions it is a good goal to be detached, although as you say impossible. This is another subject - how to best argue taking into account the cognitive dissonance and so on. Some are best persuaded with emotion some with cold facts.
The examples are partly based on real conversations, but I tried not to make them too obvious 😉
V
It's interesting, I liked it. 😃
V
Nice work.
v
Forgot "Once you are out of arguments start swearing, in your native language (optional)" 😃
But everyone knows my native language though 😨
Hmm, in that case, switch to baby talk ^.^
Tell that to Schopenhauer xD But I edited the last one to indicate that's what comes after lack of arguments, the native language is another nice twist, yeah.
A classic case of number 5, what do you say doctor?
Indeed! We should introduce a point system or drinking game to evaluate comments before replying to them. That's why I strived for a classical source, so that it wouldn't be considered my invention 🙂
What can be find most symptomatic in this retrospect of rhetorics is that some patients immediately fell ill to the underlaying tone of you examples.
More points bigger the needle on the injection syringe? 🙂
Not sure what the punishment should be... I am tempted to say the public ridicule once everybody learns how ridiculous a given argument is. But then I would be guilty of point 6. myself 😃
Like this ? http://i.imgur.com/ZxasdSj.png
Or perhaps your most famous "Germany 1933-1945" comment who started all this BS in Japan... 🙂
http://prntscr.com/7bl6y4
Or maybe some other : http://prntscr.com/7bl766
Translate this to your foreign friends, they don`t understand your "antic" language... xD
This comment is a nice illustration of point 8 too. As you can see it tries to change the subject, uses the curseword "BS" for strength and plays the "Others are nasty too!" card.
Quite nice manipulation you do with images, revealing only that you want, not the whole thing.
http://prntscr.com/7bld02
WATANE OVAJ JE REKO ZABRANJENI BROJ!
DA GA NOSAMO?
OHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOOHHOHOHOOHHOHO!
You got it all wrong, but who cares...BS...? You disagree that it`s all BS now ? And that some ppl think they can just joke around with comments like Mr. Stolen history here ?
"You got it all wrong" -> point 3., "Mr. Stolen" -> point 2., "who cares" -> point 7.
http://static.vibe.com/uploads/2013/03/vibe-vixen-sweet-brown-meme.jpg
V.
Interesting
v
V
Like that idea. Also, i can give you few advices. If you want to told some1 to get down on his knees you use sentence: Let me love you in your mouth. May I give you my love in your mouth?
And why would I want my interlocutor to get down on his knees? Or did you mean a trolling example instead of advice?
This individual here is one of eJapan best trollers. I'd ignore him at all cost.
No worries, we've already been introduced. "Best troller" sounds a bit like "best failure" - not sure if you mean something we want to proudly export or carefully lock down 😃
In all seriousness though, since this article deals with trolling I'm inclined to give him a chance to explain before ignoring.
Endorsed.
Interesting. v+e
Could've been a quite brilliant elaboration if it didn't contain preconceived ideas in the given "plastic" instances.
If I were you I wouldn't have used Schopenhauer's The Art of Being Right due to,least to say,untrustworthy and unreliable evidence against the current situation.Blaise Pascal's "The Art Of Persuasion" would be more effective weapon even if one is wrong.
What preconceived ideas do you mean exactly? The examples are plastic for clarity and lack of room. At the same time they can't be simply formal logical expressions for readability. At any rate it's the structure/method not the contents that are supposed to illustrate the mistakes.
I think you misunderstood the purpose of this article, so your suggestion does not quite fit. I am not addressing the current situation, using that book to further my point. Neither am I presenting or refuting any evidence. Rather, I am trying to make people more familiar with incorrect argumentation using that particular book as a starting point.
I meant the ideas depicted by some of your examples,like "This training war is costing us too much.","You stole the military unit together with its funds."," The current situation in Japan is terrible." If it's not the contents,then the structure/method is somehow...Extremely suggestive. And I perfectly understand what are you trying to imply in this case,however in no way am I making attempts to dispute your work. I was suggesting that those "tackling" examples may produce the very same effect on players as if this was just another trolling article (which is not,of course). Again,I see your point,but you might want to take a look at the comments above and see what I was talking about.
Training wars and MU takeovers happen all the time everywhere, so without pointing any fingers these should be considered general examples - one that many people can identify with. With Japan/terrible I honestly believe any side could make the very same claim - for different reasons.
Of course I have my own opinions, and they probably cause the suggestiveness, but at the same time I can't help but think "If the cap fits, wear it." - if people feel the need to defend/attack that speaks volumes. The comments, which you mention, sadly demonstrate that, although it is not as bad as the usual trolling, which does happen on both sides.
I appreciate your point. I'm not sure there is a good solution here, because most people use fallacious arguments without realizing it, and when this is pointed out, no matter how politely, they take it as a grave insult. This is, in fact, described in the 38th chapter too. Disarming trolls never happens without their fighting, most often by reciprocal accusation of trolling :/
I edited the introduction to indicate I meant examples as tools for understanding the particular tricks, and not critique of a particular situation achieved with the book. Thanks again for the suggestions!
You're very much welcome,I hope you,personally,didn't perceive this as a bad intention to discredit your efforts. I,for one,think that this article,pointing out proper argumentation,would be much more efficient in a developed community in terms of players' familiarity with each other as a mean of improvement of political skills.You know,bringing people closer to common goals and thus reconciliation.I'm talking about a debate (fierce/calm,whatever),as long as it is supported by strong argumentation and understanding from both sides.
Either way,I'll help with a shout or more;this should be incorporated into Ministry Of Information newspapers as a guideline for political greenhorns 😃
There is always room for improvement, so once I get past the natural impulse to discretid any critique, I appreciate and try to accommodate it.
It would be so much easier to have a political discourse if all debates started at this level instead of the usual ignoratio elenchi. There would be smaller risk of people taking such guides as personal attacks and more focus on the topical issues.
It would be greatly appreciated if you could pass the article on! Although I am not sure it can get much more advanced than this, as I already got word some people fell asleep midway 😃 I might do another one to expand on the psychological part.
Completely agree with frejzer. This is a great resource for political wannabes.
Very good read. Subbed ofc
o/
Very good job bro! o/
v
Interesting.
o7!
v