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I reached out to candidates for Party President of the eUS' top party to have a debate. Admittedly I only choose to ask those I knew from my limited participation in our game and only a few choose to respond. Those that know me, know I have my own opinions, but this was a debate about our country's top party not my opinion of said party, though I did express my opinions to further the dialogue.

Viarizi and I had a private conversation before and during the debate, I aggressively challenged him and to his credit he excepted the challenge. He gave me permission to include comments from our private conversation, which was held for him to be able to voice his concerns during his debate with others, as he felt it was himself (and Hanibal LA) against all others I invited. Hanibal LA was invited even though he isn't neither a candidate nor a member of the AFA, I felt comments he has previously made may come up and wanted him to have a chance to respond if they in fact did come up during the debate.

Viarizi's comment to me that I would like to share with our community.

"the thing is I concede I don't know what Ronald has done before my time... that said, I do NOT follow is commands, and even in AFA Leadership we discuss a lot of strategies and I can assure you Ronald already backed down on some of its own proposals because the rest of us did not agree with him, being this a private matter people do not realize that and think we are all a bunch of sheep under his command"

And the debate...

Hanibal LA; I fight for that since I came back to eUSA. I repeated many times. This is not between Pfeiffer and Ajay, as some guys here wanna show, this is civil war. We don't want that war. We called many times on peace and discussion, but without results. So what we else have then fight...and we will fight till we win.

Anyway, regarding AFA PP, we have official candidate, and thats Viarizi. AFAers said their opinion, and now its on all of us to respect that will.

LordRahl2; This is not a debate between Mr. Gipper, the elitist, and Henry. This is a battle between the forces against democracy, namely the AFA elitists, and freedom. Mr. Viarizi, and Mr. Gipper openly suppress free speech and reject democracy. I stand FOR democracy. For example, Mr. Viarizi and Mr. Hanibal are welcome to debate on the eUS national forums. There is a way forward for the AFA. The oppressed AFA voters must choose freedom from the AFA elitists like Mr. Viarizi.

Hanibal LA; It's really nice you calling us to debate on US forums, but unfortunately, you ars nobody on those forums 🙂 we all know all AFA congressmans are censored automatically, without any reason. AFA is marked as eUSA enemy no.1 and we don't have any rights on those forums and not just on forums, but in whole administration. Thats why we found another way to do our jobs. Regarding your access to AFA forums, you broke the rules of behavior and fight straight against main afa politics, and you still do. And thats why you are kicked. Same is with RS. You guys simply don't follow our procedure and thats why you got penalties. Same is with us and eUSA forums.

For example. I'm banned from almost every top 5 party's forums and public channels, again without reason, just because I'm former member of AFA.

Another example.\; Candor is on the opposite side from start, but he have moderator status on AFA forums. So, I think it's not about us dear Mr.LR2, but its about you and your behavior.

You had your chance,and like in every normal and democratic organization, if you don't respect rules, you get kicked. simple

LordRahl2; Oh? I call for freedom in the AFA and I oppose the AFA elitists. I never even posted on the AFA forums. My 'crime' is disagreeing with the AFA elitists and that is all. Suppressing free speech is just that: suppressing free speech. It really is that simple despite your obfuscations.

I have a plan to move the party forward. The AFA does not need to lose over and over like we have seen. However, the first step must be to get rid of Mr. Gipper, Viarizi, yourself, and the other AFA elitists so the people can taste freedom.

And you are NOT banned on the eUS forums. The policies of the SoH are not my policies.

Hanibal LA; What you calling "opposing the AFA eitists" I see as opposing the will of AFAers. AFAers chose official candidate and still, you called all members to vote for other candidate. is that fight against AFA elitists or maybe a fight against will of whole party?

Truth; I'm not banned from eUS forums, but I'm banned from every official public eUSA channel, and like I said before, from almost every top 5 party's forums and channels (except AFA ofc)

LordRahl2; AFA elitists are those who control free speech and suppress votes in order to keep their stranglehold on power.

People controlled by a small undemocratic vote, the AFA elitists, do not have a voice and hear only what they are feed by the elitists.

I note that you are in the AFA. As am I. I am not allowed on the AMP forums for example and do not complain. I should be allowed on the AFA forums and would be if the AFA elitists practiced democracy.

pop George; To add my two cents, for years I have fought the elitest structure in the eUS and claiming a civil war doesn't work for me cause, I am caught in no man's land and lose with either sides victory. The AFA does in fact presently employ all the things I have fought the elitest against. Just look at the numbers that use the forums verses in game numbers and no one can claim it is a fair process. The forums are a tool for the elitest no matter which party to keep themselves in power.

Hanibal LA; Like I said, its not about us we can't use regular methods in our proceedings. We are blocked in every single part of administration, so we need to find our ways to do our job. Also, we have PTO attempts in AFA every month, and we need to protect ourselves, on this or that way...but we need to keep what we fought for.

And I agree forums are tool elitists use to control members, but thats consequence from things I mentioned above. US Gov asked us to do primaries and to chose leaders though forums. In past, we did all though irc and PMs, on meetings, and we were traitors and elitists too. So what you ppl propose.

If we allow every player to be candidate, we'll be PTOed. but ok...if you support this, why don't you allow same in other parties, but every month, our candidate in other party is PTOer, but yours in AFA is democratic candidate?!

LR2, like I said, you had your own chance, like many others, like every single AFAer, but you broke the rules and attacked directly on main AFA principles...thats why you are not AFA member anymore.

LordRahl2; What Mr. Hanibal is saying here is that I supported democracy and free speech which, naturally, attacks the core AFA principles. The AFA elitists, therefore, removed my right to speak or vote.

Hanibal LA; Mr.LR2 AFA have rules? right? I don't know if you read AFA constitution (partly finished, but there is a part about primary process). Following those rules we chose official candidate. On E-Day, you called all members to vote for other candidate, candidate who wasn't even a nominated in primary. that was attack straight against AFA, against AFA members, AFA politics, constitution...and if you like..against AFA elitists. but still, you broke the rules.

LordRahl2; How can people be legitimately nominated in some forum if you ban dissenting voices in the party from even viewing much less posting on said forum? o_O

Nor can you use that as an excuse to ban me since I was already banned.

rainy sunday; Mr. Hanibal LA, your party's leadership have never allowed me a voice on the AFA forum. You dismiss me and anything I may have to contribute, call me names and tell me I'm worthless while refusing me an opportunity to present myself and my ideas. How easy for you to then shout 'troll'. I have already presented evidence to your "PP-elect" that AFA members do indeed have freedom to freely visit and post on eusa forums. There are distinct differences between public discussion boards and The Legislative Branch boards.

It is the PARTIES responsibility to educate their members on matters of in game politics, political mechanics AND how to navigate the political community 'outside' of the game.

pop George; Do any of you think that we can move past single personalities dominating politics?

rainy sunday; Yes and no. We must move beyond that if we are to continue to have a community. It will be up to the collective individuals to move beyond elevating single personalities, not those individuals decision.

LordRahl2; I certainly hope so. Movements have power and can unite us rather than divide us. That is why I focus on democracy, freedom, and free speech in the AFA since they are clearly lacking under the current regime.

Viarizi; Mr. Moderator the most active members of my party are not unfortunately present here, instead I find two known active saboteurs of AFA present but I am whiling to concede that to your lack of knowledge of our party internal affairs and will answer your questions to the best of my ability.

As for my thoughts on the matter of AFA being a threat to USA and our ability as a country to move past single personalities dominating politics I am a firm believer that any democracy should be strong and mature enough to overcome any type of threat from a single individual or even a group, and in a game as eRepublik where the democratic process is so direct and even more frequent than RL, of course we are able to get past any individual influence or rivalry with little effort and very quickly. Just let me assure you one more thing AFA is not a threat to eAmerica, maybe it is a threat to the current establishment but not to the eUnited States of America.

LordRahl2; Sir, I also question your statement that you believe in democracy. Why do you block legitimate AFA voters from nominating and voting. This is the antithesis of democracy my friend.

I would conclude that the only threat that the people you deny the right to vote bring is a threat to the elitist AFA establishment. I hope that the first step in improving the AFA is to kick the AFA elitists out of the party. This is especially valid given the AFA's increasingly long track record of failure under the AFA elitists.

This is the first step in my plan to give the people in the AFA a voice and victory.

pop George; Second question then, how would you (the candidates) purpose moving past this stalemate and bring about further involvement in the election process?

Viarizi; As for this question Mr. Moderator assuming you are talking about elections in general, or at least CP and Congress elections, I believe that the "unity process" is driving voters away from elections, the electorate is polarized and most of them are starting to lose interest, what you see in the media is the "lets unite to defeat AFA" message and no real problems are addressed. Worse the unity candidates only have to say that they are running to keep AFA at bay and almost all of their campaign is over, they do not feel the need to discuss strategies for our country and quite frankly this kind of situation only contributes to perpetuate the current establishment. We are the only opposition because no other parties seem to even care to discuss which eAmerica strategy should be followed regarding Economy or Military. So my answer to your question is that the end of the unity process will draw more voters to the elections and we will finally start talking about what really matters for eAmerica.

If in the other hand you if you are referring to AFA PP elections, we already have a very participated process, our members can discuss on our Forum the subjects they want to see addressed by their PP for 72 hours, then they have another 24 hours to nominate their candidates and finally another 24 hours to vote for the nominee they want. As for the turnout in the election day I'm not worried because I know my supporters will show up and vote for me.

LordRahl2; The biggest fundamental trouble in today's eUS politics is the AFA elitists. They are perceived as an existential threat by all 4 other parties to the political stability of the eUS. I make no comment on if they are right or wrong I am not debating them here. Again, first we must depose these AFA elitists to regain room to maneuver with the other parties.

The second phase of improving the voice and strength of the AFA after kicking the AFA elitists out is to regain trust among the other top 4 to end this unity process. Only then can good ideas and good governance return to the eUS.

Mr Viarizi stand against that simple course of action.

pop George; as I have already stated many players think the AFA is an Ajay tool to be used to gain power for himself. Obviously it is Viarizi against those that want to dispose of Ajay, if the AFA wants to be taken seriously they have to distance themselves from him.

LordRahl2; Mr Moderator, that is EXACTLY the point. Ajay and his cronies are the ones holding the AFA back. Only without this drag will the eUS be able to move forward.

Viarizi; Contrary to popular belief the Serbs are not a very active faction on our party. So it is natural for you to know more of them than me from past experiences. For example I do not know who is MJShadow.

I like to see myself as a moderate member of AFA that represents all AFAers, old and new, of course being myself a younger player I am regularly more in touch we the new generation of AFAers, we are just young eAmericans from all corners of the eWorld who just want a piece of the eAmerican dream (i.e. Bonus) and not a bunch of people from one particular country here just to take over eAmerica and destroy her.

But do not mistake my moderation for weakness, I will not stand still while people like LordRahl2 try to take down AFA, just name me one Party in the entire world (eRep and RL by that matter) which tolerates a member that effectively works against his own party, because Game Mechanics does not allow us to implement sanctions against him (like Parties in RL do) at least we can punish him for his actions and destructive behavior banning him from our Forum and IRC.

Freedom of speech does not mean you can do whatever you like, specially in a party where hierarchy exists, also we are an organization and as all organizations we have to protect our assets, being a party our members are our most prized assets so we can not a allow someone to drive them away posing as an AFA member, poaching activity from other Parties activity should be more than enough.

As for distance myself from Ronald let me just say this, I like him very much but that does not mean I automatically agree with everything he does. The fact is that he is an historical party figure, one of the cornerstones of the Party so he will always be a very influential person with party leadership and comon members, but Mr. Moderator you started this debate asking how could we get past single individuals influence, well as for me the best way to do so is to talk more about AFA and not Ronald.

rainy sunday; There are AFA members who do have great potential to contribute and lead. As LordRahl and George have both stated, aligning with and collaborating with the likes of Ajay to attain those goals is a disrespect to yourselves and the group you claim to represent.

@ Second question then, how would you (the candidates) propose moving past this stalemate and bring about further involvement in the election process?

I would like to see more service oriented work being performed by young AFA members.

pop George; So how is the AFA different if you all are going to do the same dirty tricks the elitest employ? If you are strong (which you are) why do you have to takeover other parties?

Viarizi; Mr. Moderator, even been this a somewhat morally questionable strategy we were forced to follow it, let me be as direct and blunt as possible, it all started as a self-defense mechanism because we suffered PTO attempts every month, so we needed to distract the establishment, then due to our numbers it naturally evolved as a another method to fight the unity process, and lets get real we will never be able to see our policies for lower taxes, full bonus and softer immigration rules applied while the unity process is in place.

We are just striking back with the weapons we have, end the unity process, lets start having true debates about what course should eAmerica follow, let all parties address the real issues that matter to eAmerica and present their solutions and finally let the eAmerican people chose the party they most identify with.

We are trying since September to bring the Government on to the negotiations table and start talks but every single one of them just ignored us, are they really serving the eAmerican people with this attitude or themselves? After all the unity process just perpetuates the same people in power... So if we are dealing with people that simply dont want to hear us out, let alone talk to us, we must find other methods to make ourselves be heard.

The establishment surrounds itself with propaganda and pass us as unreasonable but we are always trying to talk to them and are always refused, are we really eAmerican enemies and disrupt normal functions? Just count the rogue proposals made by my congressmen since September, I lead the AFA congressmen initiative to stop rogue proposals since then and just recently I read a comment from FG saying that we were only not making rogue proposals for 2 weeks. Whats that about?

pop George; If we cut out the excessive verbiage, the debate boils down to the AFA feeling they have to defend themselves (and I see there piont) but aren't willing to grant the same rights to rogue members of the AFA as they ask for themselves as rogue members of the eUS.

Is that a fair summation?

Viarizi; George everyone had a chance in AFA, our forum has a lot of non-AFAers registered even as Moderators, and the fact is that only 3 or 4 members in 800 complaint and only them are banned because they actively tried to get members out of AFA and are just infiltrators putted in AFA to disrupt our day-to-day operations.

In the other hand AFA represents 1/3 of all active US citizens...

rainy sunday; blatant lie

Viarizi; LordRahl2, rainy sunday and Rimisark! But feel free to name the other I forgot please... You know I don't lie, we talked.

rainy sunday; Typed a response and timed out. eR +1 rainy 0
will reply after I've finished dinner.

Alexander_Auctoritas; I will be with you until the end of the age.

pop George; I am transcribing now, if you want to throw something in, I will have to note that it came late, which is my fault for not having starting sooner to allow for better discussion

rainy sunday; I would like Mr. Viarizi or Mr. LA to present any evidence that I am a 'saboteur' (as Mr. Viarizi claims) or that any of my actions have harmed the citizens of the AFA. I would also respectfully request that my irc ban be removed from #amfa , that I be permitted an account on AFA forums and allowed an equal voice in public and general party member areas.

Editors Notes; I thank all that participated and for allowing me to take part as well, hopefully others will be willing to take part in other debates in the future.

I asked for Gnilraps input outside of this debate, it is late so I did NOT correspond to get closer to what I was looking for and thank him for his comment.

If the goal is to strip Pfeiffer of power, then We The People stands the best chance. I don't know Viarizi. If he is pro-Serbia he has no chance whatsoever to succeed. Sure, there is a large pro-Serbia population here now, but without significant constant energy it will eventually fade. If, however, he (or anyone for that matter) is ever able to convince eUSA to side with eSerbia??? well that would be a massive shift. I personally don't think there'd be anything wrong with it because in a game like this WHO CARES WHAT "TEAMS" WE SIDE WITH???

SPQR is doing the right thing, but it will likely be doomed by the fact that many of the existing power elite are on board early. If they were smarter about it, they would have used lesser-knowns to start it smallishly, let it grow more organically, then joined in themselves as equals. At the rate it's going right now it likely will not result in much.

However the IDEA behind it (which is what I am ACTUALLY writing about in my latest piece) is solid. That is to say, create a meta-narrative which potentially includes as many people as possible. That is what I try to do whenever I write in opposition to Ajay. The old adage is that a common enemy tends to unite.

Anyway, none of it will matter unless we can figure out out to hold on to people. Fewer and fewer are playing this game. And meanwhile more and more multis are being created (I happen to know this for a fact), so what population there is is an inflated representation of how many actual people there are.

I am not entirely sure what you were asking, but I think it may be somewhere in the vicinity of my answer...