Where did it go wrong?
Foxfire
Let's cut the bull and review.
We all know the story...
Canada attacked the UK to assist an ally that the UK was attacking as a good ally should do.
Spain, TEN times larger than Canada attacks and wipes Canada because Canada had the nerve to exercise a basic function of the game against a foe of equal standing.
For no reason other than a demonstration of epic country on country bullying, Spain keeps a significantly smaller country occupied for over eight months. Behold glory of Spain...
Each month a Canada CP attempted to negotiate with these jackholes and every month they didn't even give us the respect to treat our efforts with any sincerity. Spain never demonstrated an ounce of honour and I would not trust their word if it was forged into gold and blessed with the breath of new born baby seals.
Spain left the majority of Canada for one reason and one reason only. We paid them. We didn't defeat them in combat. Our allies didn't turn the tide. And the USA certainly didn't help us to any successful conclusion that finally freed us. We and we alone bit that painful bullet and took it.
We get matching t-shirts with USA: Two occupied by TWO
Suddenly, the USA is wiped by TWO. Oh the irony. A country that ignored our calls for assistance for the majority of our occupation, suddenly finds itself in our position. Yet still Canada, under a CW CP, comes to the aid of the USA without even being asked, as good allies should.
Suddenly the USA is interested in being allies. Sort of... Conditionally. See they don't trust our CPs. You know, the people we as a nation choose to elect per a majority. So basically they don't trust our choices. But we're allies. Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge. Just so long as we aren't in charge and don't make our own decisions.
DMW3's own words reference the USA's continued butthurt over CPs “like Rylde and Rolo” and making sure that we don't vote for any CPs like them. Great. And when future CPs come to power that don't pass the USA Overlord's seal of approval? Then what? Alliance over? Or is that the pre-fabricated excuse that will be flipped our way when the USA is freed and they don't need Canada as a static meat-shield to cover their northern ass from additional TWO attack. Three months of “trial membership” sounds like a good timeline to finally free USA with Canadian assistance. “Thanks for the help good buddy, but turns out you are really aren't CoT material. Thanks for all the tanks. 🙂
”
Survey says... nothing
Every single time a Canadian CP wanted to move alliances or seek new alliances, they consulted with the Canadian public. This time. Nothing. Strange no? No review. No questions asked. No questions answered. Absolutely no details of what we can expect from an alliance with CoT. Why?
Because we get nothing.
See we went to Asgard because we wanted allies that would show up to a fight. And in fairness they did. There weren't many of them but they came when we needed them. CoT on the other hand could not give a flying fart's worth of a stink in tornado about the sovereignty of Canada.
All those nations that didn't care about Canada while we were in EDEN, do you know where they went? CoT. Shockingly, CoT has no sincere interest in Canada as a priority either. Funny that.
So what are we doing in CoT?
So we join CoT because they are bigger. Okay. And they will help finally free us from Spain. Nope.
Will they guarantee us priority support should another TWO nation attack Canada. Nope.
So what do we get? We get to fight for them, yay! Who doesn't like working for free.
But CoT is good allies, even though in over a year they have actually shown themselves to be horrible allies.
But the USA is our friends, even though a high powered microscope could not measure the size of the rat's ass they could give about our country and are actually allied with our oppressive occupiers.
How can friends of our occupiers be our friends?
See the USA has always had the numbers to push Spain out of Canada. But they won't because they are actually good buddies with Spain. WHAAAAAA? Yep, they wouldn't even have to fight Spain. Well, they actually never would fight Spain, because that's part of their agreement. But one good phone call from the USA to Spain with a “I think the occupation of Canada has gone on long enough. We think it's fair to ask that North America remain TWO free. Thanks good buddy.”
Nope, not even willing to do that.
So CoT won't help us, because we aren't a priority to them. The USA is friends with Spain and won't fight them. What the hell are we doing with these people?
To much common sense and not enough head nodding
So what are we looking for in an alliance? Here's a concept, HOW ABOUT AN ALLIANCE THAT FINALLY FREES US FROM SPAIN! Or does our country now end at Quebec?
We should have been exploring new allies. Having conversations of what we could expect from them, in addition to what they would expect from us. That would have been a completely reasonable solution. Instead we get taken to a shotgun wedding with CoT. Why? Because it's good for CoT.
Welcome to the second Canadian occupation. Think we can buy our way out of this one?
Comments
First!
Now to read 😛
"country* on country bullying" Paragraph 3
Also, voted.
o7
Thank you sir. o7
Gotta get my comment up here. I doubt USA could of that easily got spain to give back our regions, as much as I'd love for all of this to be 100% true, it isn't. Sorry kiddo. Stay mad tho, it's entertaining.
"Survey says... nothing"
I'd like to apologize for that. The whole topic with CoT came on a bit too quick for me to adequately prepare a survey to gather results. Had I known it would be an issue with people's confidence in the vote Congress conducted, I would have got on it a lot sooner.
I failed to properly represent my constituents in that measure before voting yesterday and I am sorry for that oversight.
A survey of that scope would take longer to both send, allow for everyone to participate and review the response then was ever allowed Wilfie. There is no way that you would have even had enough time to do so in the extremely short time frame of events that joined us with CoT. Don't blame yourself.
How about we give it our best to get a survey out there before the Trial Membership goes up for final review in 3 months?
I don't think we have missed an opportunity here, but rather learned the importance of one we overlooked (or slacked off on, in my case)
some of the more experienced Congress members should have raised concerns over the lack of public consultation.
yes, you should have a talk to your people over there Leo
I knew you would cave and write this lol
'Honour' not honor !!
I agree of course with most of what you say. Should have helped from afar and not get into the mess of CoT, main reason people wanted to join them when the surveys were taken months ago was so they could help beat eSpain, now that we have a NAP with them it is not so urgent to join, but right when its not urgent we get shoved into CoT faster than Commodus killed his father after he told him he would not be Emperor.
Time will tell if this was a good move by DMV, but things were done without the normal referendum and now we are involved in an alliance that is fighting the strongest alliance in the game, who also surround us...
Strength and honour. o7
Change made.
Talking and exploring new allies and finding things out is what we were promised in the first place. I do agree with all this article and if it was anyone but Foxfire writing this i would sub. Ahh screw it 162.
USA wants yes men and newsflash I'm not and most canadians aren't especially when we identify things as unfair.
Being neutral for a time may be better but as we are small CoT may be all we have to strive for. An unimportant nobody in the crowd.
Agree with everything you say in this article. The observation that the eUS long ago chose damage/Spain over old Terra allies is especially relevant, and begs the question WHY Canada would wish to get back into bed with them now...
Personally I'd like to see eCanada and eIreland in ACT/TWO alongside Australia -- look what ACT membership has done for Australia (recent military defeats aside). Probably won't happen tho, which is a shame.
if that happened them by dream of a Commonwealth would be closer at hand
A great analysis of the situation. The only problem is that it lets the current congress off the hook for allowing such a miscarriage of public trust to occur.
Power without balance is a dangerous cocktail.
What a load of garbage.
It is a trial membership Foxfire. You have time to create your mythical alliance that is stronger then CoT and stronger then TWO and Spain and who will charge in to start WW6 just to free up 4 regions for us.
Due to geography and power, I believe Canada is better off being allied with the USA then any other country in this game. Yes, they did not do nothing much to help us in the past while, but we were not allied neither. Now that we are officially allies, we can judge the relationship going forward.
Canada and the US were two of the strongest allies this game has ever seen. If we can achieve that again, that is what would be best for Canada.
"Canada and the US were two of the strongest allies this game has ever seen. If we can achieve that again"
You've got to be kidding me?! You don't actually believe that crap do you ED?
Believe it? I lived it.
You were living in an alternate dimension then.
I did participate in Gift a Bro day.
i think you are delving into mysticism there. "two of the strongest allies in the game" is a bit of a stretch.
if you are talking about friendship wise sure you are up in the top 10 lets say. but damage wise you probably dont make top 10
lol I assumed you would know to which I was referring without saying. Friendship for the win.
well i can say right now as an Australian i know exactly how far American friendship extends in this game,
not very far
Well when Australia CoD our airstrike a little while back I felt the same way.
you mean when we were already members of ACT?
Australians loyalty is to our allies, thats TWO, Spain proved themselves to be good allies so we returned the favour.
you live in a very inward world. this article proves it, crying about woe is canada. try being occupied for 4 years instead of 8-9 months. then come complaining.
if you want to blame anyone for our CotD being on Spain v Canada then blame the people that forced us into TWO by stabbing us in the back.
blame your "strongest allies this game has ever seen"
Not really, you were probably a little young, but there were times when North America saved Europe 😉
Believe me, if not the strongest, one of the strongest... At least in our prime.
Sorry to see it didn't work out between eAussie and eUSA though :/
i started playing feb 09, 4 months before you so i know exactly what you are trying to portray, and that just works into my argument more, once upon a time the USA cared about allies beyond their usefulness. they dont now, they went meh towards canada, stabbed Aus in the back and countless others because they wanted to gain some small strategic or economic advantage. it failed and killed their diplomatic reputation.
so why are they cuddling up now, its in their interests to get CoT stronger. if they werent in deep shit they would be preparing for war with canada for resources
Yes of course, how was I to know when your current profile says 2010 😉
Indeed, some fair points...
This has all to do with the imbalance of power we have right now...
*were
The eUS have sat by and watched this ally -- one half of the strongest alliance partnership this game has ever seen, according to you -- get wiped/re-wiped/re-wiped for the past year, and why: just to secure their pointless "bro-ship" with eSpain. The eUS have been pointedly ignoring eCanada's plight for the last year, that's quite a chunk of the 5 years this game has been in existence. And without people like Glove/Emerick, who were always a cut above the standard roleplaying eUS CP, the situation between eUS-Can we have now might just have been the norm.
A congress of 10 - imho - carries less weight, and should have (morally) less influence than a congress of 40. This should have waited another 2 weeks until after a new, full congress is elected.
10 seemed like a lot to me, compared to none for past 8 months.
There was no hurry, no urgency to commit to CoT. Not that this is a bad decision, my beef is primarily the "how" it came about.
Well for 8 months we would of given our eye teeth to join CoT and get that kind of backing against Spain. Things change quickly in this game and neither of us can say if we had time to wait. At the time of the vote it looked like Spain and the USA were headed to a direct war with the Mexico, Spanish NE's. It looked like an opportunity to free us of Spain.
The reason for urgency is that the monthly CoT summit where trial membership was going to be offered to Canada and voted on by CoT member states was rapidly approaching - it took place, like always, on the 10th of the month.
It probably would have been better if DMV3 hadn't seemed so clear about not joining an alliance this month but he made a call (with Congress' consent) based on the particular circumstances this month.
It very well could be that this was the only time the stars aligned for this particular event and while of course nobody knows for sure one way or another, it's the role of the CP, in my opinion, to make these decisions at the time. Otherwise what's the point in having an executive?
Bow to the US-American overlords, or the Serbian overlords.. That's basically the only choice in this game right now. Currently, the Serbian side has huge advantages in damage, so with their help, small countries can easily win against enemies much stronger than you (see: AUS vs. ID). I'm sure they would gladly accept Canada's damage and use you as another nation attacking the eUS. But Spain is still TWO, so to get their approval, you'd probably have to swear to pay for your own regions forever etc. Best shot would be Spain switching sides, because then Canada could also invade Spain with the Serbian firepower..
I think the majority of the eUS population would prefer having Canada as an ally, and not only due to the fact that Canada would then be "protecting" a border.
And for the eUS CPs, well, it makes sense to secure the Spanish border, too, so there's a good reason for good relations.
its a case of whats good for canada isnt good for the USA, and as such Canada gets screwed over.
it happens time and time again in this game. Canada is the only one loudly bawwwing about it though
Foxfire's just one guy bawling.
Not judging by the speed with which this article got voted up. Clearly hit a cord with the Canadian population.
"... for the eUS CPs, well, it makes sense to secure the Spanish border, too, so there's a good reason for good relations."
eSpain are a founding TWO member, i.e. the enemy, and are damagewise weaker than the eUS, so what do the eUS get out of it? An assurance that eSpain won't hit against them or won't attack when the summer invasions roll round? With the advent of Air Strikes and with Romania/Greece now proTWO those are insignificant gains.
There's no real reason the eUS should be pursuing peace with eSpain, other than as a concession to Brazil. I have to presume whoever's pulling the strings in the eUS has CTRL mkII in mind and that's what this is all about, as otherwise it just seems win/win for eSpain and the eUS get nothing.
I'd rather have a country AS me than NE me.. If an AS fails, it's done, and also an AS costs quite a bit, regardless of its outcome. Also if it's a way to somehow loosen the bonds in TWO, why not? Everyone knows TWO is massively overpowered and the only way to balance is TWO-nations joining CoT.
The eUS were unable to stop Thai and Montenegrin ASs when the invasion of the eUS was in fullflight so a Romanian or Greece AS would be next to impossible in tandem with Polski and Serb NE's. But yeah AS's cost is prohibitive, but the Hun/Rom ceasefire has done wonders for both country's economies, and should allow both to develop huge reserves over the course of the next year, plus eGreece has 80% weaps bonus and no credible enemy on their doorstep, just the occasional Fyrom RW, another recipe for building a huge reserve.
Unfortunately the eSpa-eUS "pact" doesn't look like its gonna have any impact on TWO, all its done is secured TWO's weakest border, i.e. that facing BrUSA, and means TWO's damage isn't sucked into defending it.
Yeah TWO is massively overpowered, but that's by design, and only Romania really suffer by being unable to expand their economy by being hedged in by allies, but the bonuses they do have are better than they've had in a long while. Nobody TWO or proTWO is making sounds that they wanna leave or switch sides, especially not eSpain. It would be suicide.
I've said it elsewhere, more damage exists outside TWO than in it. Its just CoT have failed miserably at attracting any of it.
"...more damage exists outside TWO than in it"
So what? That damage can't be pooled and used against TWO since there are conflicting interests between those countries. One might as well say that TWO has the potential to grow even stronger. Your point is pointless.
"That damage can't be pooled and used against TWO since there are conflicting interests between those countries..."
If Romania can declare proTWO, an alliance that contains Hungary -- anything can happen. Firstly, and I'm gonna assume the argument you're making is a "conflict of interest" between countries like Bulg-Turk/Arg or Rus/Ukr, an argument which is entirely specious if it is. First up, its dislike, potentially mutual, and has nothing to do with there being a conflict of objectives, in other words should one of these countries be successful economically/territorially etc., does not automatically require the other suffer. Unlike other situations we have because of geography or whatnot. Like I say, there are infantile reasons why CoT is stuck where it is, all of this kinda nonsense TWO has been able to successfully overcome (mostly). CoT hasn't, and are suffering as a consequence.
Secondly, Croatia/China/Brazil can't be coaxed into joining CoT -- really!?! There's a conflict of interest at the root of this? What is it?
The reality is it has nothing to do with a "conflict of interest" but because all of the above are convinced CoT is a poor excuse of an alliance that can't even make a decent case for obvious candidates like Croatia or Brazil joining. Fail is fail.
Bloody good article.
V
something need to be learn
eSpain's a bit** of pimPoland and US's just a client for both...
And a satisfied one 😛
Poland's collecting payment right now
Never trust this trio... But if you need to trust somebody here, ePoland is the most trustable
love your writing style, but, obviously since i've just immigrated from America, i disagree with your conclusion. never the less, you've earned a new sub.
Since the CTRL issue, murica was the most selfish country in erep. It's in the same league with loland and spaniard pigs. Same overinflated ego. And to think they were one of the best allies when Terra still existed.