Sometimes we don't agree
Avruch
Sometimes we don't agree, and thatz okay. (ht: Gawker).
Many of us have served in a number of different military units in this game; some official, some not. They've had different cultures, different communities, different standards of behavior. In some units I've been in, you risked your position in the unit if you expressed even faint disagreement. I've had one "general" SCREAM AT ME IN ALL CAPS for no particular reason - later I learned this was a common occurrence in that particular unit.
I never liked that feeling of having to keep my mouth shut. I have no interest in "toeing the party line" or saying only what it is popular to say. So when a couple of other guys and I set to creating our own military unit, we made one that had no real rules about what you could say or do. No ranks, no platoons, no formal "code of conduct." No one cared if you gave the founders a hard time or had different (even drastically different) opinions. All that mattered was you followed the battle orders; if you did that, you got your kit and you could stay in the unit as long as you liked.
Not long after that I had the opportunity to create, from the ground up, a new United States Armed Forces. We built the Armed Forces with the same ethos - you can say what you want, as long as you follow the right orders. That was the rule then, and it's the rule now. Being part of the USAF has nothing to do with a party, or politics. If you disagree with your leadership, that's fine. If you want to argue, go ahead. As long as you don't disrupt the unit or break your orders, you have complete freedom. It's a game, we play for fun, and we have no interest in stocking our units with yes-men or people too afraid to have an opinion.
But if you cross that line - if you fight against the USA, or fight for an enemy without orders, or fight against US interests, or tell others to do the same... You need to find another unit. There are a lot of MUs in this country, and even more around the rest of the world. Find somewhere where you can obey orders.
Here's an example of crossing the line from a former Air Force soldier who has been discharge😛
Here's another:
Those are just two of many similar examples. Once you cross this line, the USAF is no longer your home. Some have said this violates the principles of free speech, you're trying to control soldiers' opinions, its the trrbl elitists taking over, etc. etc.
But even Thomas Jefferson would know that a man who tells his friends and fellow soldiers to violate orders doesn't belong in the government's military, doesn't deserve government tanks and food, and is no longer fit to serve.
Comments
Well, yeah. Telling others to fight opposite the orders that you have been given and, by joining an govt funded mu, agreed to follow, isn't going to end well. Duh.
General McChrystal spoke out against Obama and he was forced into retirement. I believe Slyk Willy was was well intentioned and he's focal like I am. He said what he said before the "orders" were even given. I'd say he's borderline insubordinate but he always told me he was afraid of retribution for speaking out. If you live in silence all your liberties are taken from you. Without Congressional approval he has every right to question orders as they aren't lawful and a detriment to the nation.
Also are we NOT giving up Aquitaine as I see a lot of well knowns fighting for eUS a I am. Discharge everyone! Anarchy prevails! Civil War!
Stan McChrystal was a senior general in the REAL WORLD. I don't think the comparison is apt. As for the rest, you're wrong. Everything he said was in reaction to the orders, there is no borderline about it, and if he was afraid of speaking out there's never been any sign of it - he's always been happy to argue with me and others on whatever topic crossed his mind.
And no, we're not giving up Aquitaine.
*popcorn*
Telling others to do what you believe in = political
Fighting in battles = military
The soldier in question expressed his political view, and did NOT fight against orders. Maybe his PP can kick him from his party if it's against party policy to take that position. But it's not related to the MU. It's not the MU's duty to monitor what someone says. We're told as USAF officers to stay away from politics in the MU. Take the politics and give it to his party president, away from a top10 eUS MU.
o7
eShades: Maybe if it had only come up in his party channel, or even only his in-game shouts. But it was on the Air Force MU shout feed (by his admission); it was in the #airforce IRC channel; it was in #defense, and #usa-chat, and said directly to members of the Air Force and other units. There's just zero ambiguity in that.
let be clear here, i was telling people outside the the government MU's to fight to keep indo, "tell your friends". also to be clear i followed the orders at hand as i always do.
And fear of speaking out load in fear of being threatend yet again is very real.
Cerb threatend and tried to have me removed during evrys term.
I have been threatend with discharge 4 times now under several administrations for speaking my political beliefs.
I'm pretty sure I know who GEN McChrystal was and it fits perfectly. It shows the corruption of both RL gov and eGov. Speak never and forever hold your piece lest be cast out to the wolves. Money and power corrupt and everyone is in it for themselves. Most people don't even know what it is to be a patriot anymore. If we instituted the draft most people would flee the country on a corporate jet or cash in their frequent flyer miles to leave. We have an all voluntary force for that reason.
better crippled in body then corrupt in mind!
Civil Anarchy
What bothers me most about all this is not all the political crap, its the fact that because you don't like what you hearing your willing to discharge an 10 month member of the Airforce who served as
XO of DeltaForce
XO of 2nd squad DeltaForce
XO of 2nd Div 1st platoon
PXO of 2nd Div 1st platoon
QM for 20 hours a day for 5 months
Winner of every "Weekly Military Unit activity bonus"
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/weekly-militarily-unit-activity-bonus-winners-1742-1748-eday-2113584/1/20
Your guy....
hmm
Denied!
Avruch you' re maybe a respectable ''tank'', but morally you' re rotten to the bone!!!
that was not "speaking your political beliefs."
go to your superior officers, even to the branch Commander or the President, in private, and respectfully question their sanity.
write an article in your newspaper, saying you really don't think this whole "region withdrawal" thing is a good idea, and say why.
and if you're going to tell players to fight other than as the government is directing, make it clear that you're talking to non-government fighters.
you didn't do this. not even close.
Last time I checked we did not get our orders from Slyk. In order to pick up our supplies we are first suppose to find out where to fight via IRC. If someone followed what Slyk said they are at fault for breaking orders not Slyk, he was simply speaking his mind, and there are 0 Airforce rules limiting speech. If he was an officer changing DO/BO's to what he wanted than it would be justified to discharge him but he isn't. All he was saying directly to eUSAF members was (continued below)
follow orders but keep an open mind. Everything else he said was in public venues were both eUSAF members and non-members were present. eUSAF members should know better than follow his orders, so thats on them. Everyone else is fair game as there are no established rules or precedent regarding what Slyk did.
🍿
The fact that you've been forced to admit that every group should have rules fills me with joy. Perhaps that mean "general" got fed up with being called a slut behind her/his back and treated like shit every day for no good reason other than it was lolzy for you and your crew. I don't recall any eUS Mil General ever scream at anyone with any regularity, only after intense harassment and disrespect.
But I see that you covered that here: "No one cared if you gave the founders a hard time...."
I do not agree with what slyk did in principle, but when you operate a group with no rules and no one needs to respect any, how can you blame him when he practices what you preach?
Just a thought...
Use your established chain of command to disseminate information.
Orders are more readily obeyed when given by an accepted and known leader, rather than a faceless political entity. By using the government entities (i.e. the DoD orders, Presidential bulletins, etc.) you're only inciting people's "stick-it-to-the-man" instinct...especially if they're politically minded.
this article makes absolutely no sense. you say no rules. follow orders(he did)
where is the problem. according to you there is no problem...but you say there is a problem o.O
make up your mind
I saw his feed all day yesterday. He posted to the effect of "Unfortunately being in the military requires me to follow orders, so I cannot do what I ask the rest of you to do..." http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3355/slyk.jpg
He basically said that members of the military need to FOLLOW ORDERS whether they believe in them or not. Based on your beliefs and standards put forth in this article and in creation of this group, he did nothing wrong but not agree with you politically.
I have his shout feed too, Bia, oddly enough. And there were plenty more on IRC and elsewhere of the sort I posted in this article. Like I said, there's a line between criticism or disagreement and openly encouraging people to fight against US interests and orders.
I never liked that feeling of having to keep my mouth shut. I have no interest in "toeing the party line" or saying only what it is popular to say. So when a couple of other guys and I set to creating our own military unit, we made one that had no real rules about what you could say or do. No ranks, no platoons, no formal "code of conduct." No one cared if you gave the founders a hard time or had different (even drastically different) opinions. All that mattered was you followed the battle order
those are your word. the hypocrisy is rather amazing
"And the screaming thing wasn't TC, and had nothing (directly, I guess) to do with you. I only got it a couple of times, but I was told by others it was fairly regular. The guy wasn't even in my branch "
Thanks Avruch, maybe now people will stop trying to attack my character and leadership with this excuse, coming from your own mouth right out in public. *wipes hands* Slate clean in my view. I'm too old to suffer or fight this crap anymore.
Welcome to leadership though, fun eh?
I have to say thank you to my friends and officers of the Airforce , some share my politics and others think I lost my marbles, but they stand by what's right and they been standing by me during this debacle "A band of Brothers" I would also like to thank the rest of you who voiced your opposition to my discharge and those who offered me refuge in their MU's and who sent me supplies to hold me over while I sort this out.