[EN] A Ukrainian - Polish question
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by Weeping Angel
Hi there, cze and other stuffs, this article has no intention of flaming any of the sides I will mention below, just expecting some enlightenment on the issue from polish side. If you have no intention of being moderate, polite and respectful - please stay out of the article and keep calm.
If u want u can skip part below, and go to the end for my main question. Just accept this article as it is please, don't flame, be polite, if I am wrong in some ways just provide your way of seeing this issue.
Posting this in "Social interactions and entertainment" with hopes of it not being deleted for some stupid reasons as always.
Also: this article is mostly inspired cause of what happened yesterday in Przemysl between Polish nationalists and Ukrainian people.
I know there are quite a bit of "right" oriented polish people in this game, so this might be mostly towards to you.
Ukrainian - Polish history was never a candy, we always had arguments and they rarely were peaceful. Neither of the sides is saint and can be considered a true victim.
I, myself, is not the best example of what can be called radical right Ukrainian person, but I follow the current right scene in Ukraine and support it in some ways.
But as much as I follow our news, articles etc regarding nationalism people rarely refer to Poland as enemy, it is mostly: "yeah, stuff was done from both sides lets forget it so we can actually, we should take example of Poland in last 15 years, take the best of it and apply it to Ukraine". I support this, I visit Poland at least twice a year, almost always have active Shengen Visa which I get through Polish embassy and when I am in Poland I feel the difference: "everything is pretty ok here, some flaws here and there, but yeah I would like for my country to be at least half of what this one is".
But from what I see polish nationalists both in this game and in RL always bring the same issue, even I think russki-loving assholes in Ukraine used it more at some point than any other group, OUN-UPA with Rzez Volynska. Which is nothing good of course, even though I support what UPA did overall for Ukraine.
Almost no one from polish nationalistic side doesn't refer to not so good actions towards Ukrainians before those days of conflicts and either before. For example: one side of my family were forced to resettle from area around Przemysl in one night during "Operation Wisla".
This was accepted by Polish government quite some time ago, which gives Ukraine a good example to follow and even Ukrainian Chocolate CP excused in front of Polish Senate in 2014 for Rzez Volynska, which might not be enough but at least is something.
So After this wall of text and some history from my point of view I just want to ask for Polish opinion: why are polish nationalists so angry towards Ukrainians but Ukrainian ones don't refer to Polish people as "enemies" and put Poland in example for Ukraine?
P.s.: I am probably not the best history knowing person in this world, but, once again, try not to flame: both for Polish people who will read this article and for Ukrainians who will accidentally wonder here.
EDIT #1: Sorry for big wall of text and no kittens.
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Its simple 😉 This idiots trying to glorify Bandera and UPA on our land. You shld know that this "Ukrainian heroes of the nation" murdered 100k Polish ppl in Volhyn.
That was something like nazi parade on jew cmentary. Inappropriate and disgusting.
You can read about this here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#Poles
In late 1942, Bandera's organization, the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, was involved in a campaign of ethnic cleansing of Volhynia, and in early 1944, these campaigns began to include Eastern Galicia. It is estimated that about 100,000[48] Poles, mostly women and children along with unarmed men, were killed during the spring and summer campaign of 1943 in Volhynia.[49]
If u want to glorify Bandera, and you coming to us with the flag of UPA you should expect the answer 😉 But Ukrainian are too dumb for this.
Why I wrote an article because I was influenced by this: http://www.nowiny24.pl/wiadomosci/przemysl/g/przepychanki-podczas-marszu-ukraincow-w-przemyslu-foto-wideo,10338024,19273696/
My grandmother was there yesterday to honor her ancestors, I looked at some photos there no one brought any "Bandera" flags, no one wouldn't even bring any. It is mostly old people who either were forced to move or their relatives.
Why was it made? Just to shove it in the face?
I could possibly understand the one with fans bringing UPA flags to the euro and polish fans anger towards it, but why something happened yesterday in Przemysl? just a couple of stupid boys trying to free testosterone?
I saw red-black tshirts in TV (relation fro Przemysl) so i think part of manifastion want to provoke something or they was just stupid 😉 For example frontman of this mannifestion.
It's obvious: "but Ukrainian ones don't refer to Polish people as "enemies"" - it's just a part you know.
and "polish nationalists so angry towards Ukrainians" - also just part about you hear. (The bad news spreads better)
I aware that during our own history Ukrainian people suffer a lot from poles, whats effects in UPA, but you have to realize that glorying Bandera (like during Euro https://www.wprost.pl/euro-2016/10012114/Flaga-UPA-z-portretem-Bandery-na-meczu-Ukraina-Polska-Co-na-to-UEFA.html) will always give hard answer.
when I said, "don't refer to Polish as "enemies"" I meant: most powerful organisations, of course there are lots small ones that are angry and always will be especially in Western Ukraine, where I am from.
Maybe, you are right and I see "bad news" more . 🙂
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Vistula
"The action was carried out by the Soviet-installed Polish communist authorities with the aim of removing material support and assistance to the Ukrainian Insurgent Army's terror operations.[1][2] The Ukrainian Insurgent Army, (Ukrayins’ka Povstans’ka Armiya, UPA), killings continued until 1947 in both Subcarpathian and Lublin Voivodeships with no hope for any peaceful resolution. Operation Vistula effectively brought an end to the hostilities."
author is potato 😛
I'll put out a thing or two. Ukrainians were collaborating with Nazis over WWII. You wanted your own country by forming 2 Nazi regiments and murdering Polish folks. Your Stećko Government standed for 2 weeks before it was dismissed by Germans who thought of you more like slaves than acctual country. And in this time (2 weeks) your people did 2 massacres, on Jews and Polish scientists in Lwów. Ukrainian gov stated about Polish folks:
"Wyniszczać w walce, szczególnie tych, co bronią reżimu, przesiedlać na ich ziemie, wyniszczać głównie inteligencję [...] Przywódców niszczyć." which goes something like this (my translation) "Fight in combat, especially ones who stand for their regime, rehouse them, destroy their intelligentsia [...] Their leaders should be annihilated".
After that, Ukrainian gov and UPA leaders were captured by Germans, who didn't permit on such behaviour and dismantled your 'country' completely, becoming hostile against Ukrainian. In '44 they were released, and voiced their anti-Soviet, anti-Polish bullshit again. That's what you get when you ally with evil vision 'that's supposed to last a 1000 years'. Between our countries, that's the most recent history, and childrens of people who went throught this hell live to this day.
Oh, and belive me. Ukrainian nationalists though of Poland as enemies. From their perspective of "taking the land we deserve to have" Ukrainian nationalists were hinting about Polish folks thinking to retrieve Lwów, when all the Euromajdan chaos came out. Fortunately, this provocation was way too far from true.
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I knew, you, cutie would come
Co ty ćpiesz człowieku?
ingo banuj
Czekam na moment, w którym twoje trollowanie przekroczy pewną granicę, stając się przestępstwem, za co bekniesz 🙂
becouse " It is estimated that about 100,000[48] Poles, mostly women and children along with unarmed men, were killed during the spring and summer campaign of 1943 in Volhynia.[49]"
Ukraina is an imagined nation, bastard of Russia and Poland. Should have ever existed. Bandera = monster. We will never be friends if you are glorifying a butcher.
comparising genocide to resettlement, brave move
"Divide et impera."
Zasada nieznana polskim pachołkom od XVI wieku. Jak widać potomkowie koni husarskich nadal niczego się nie nauczyli.
Ciekawe komu zależy na wrogości między Ukraińcami a polakami.
Czekam na moment, w którym twoje trollowanie przekroczy pewną granicę, stając się przestępstwem, za co bekniesz 🙂
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Za stalking też można beknąć 😃
Czyli niedługo bekniesz.
Zordasz voted... Chcecie mnie hakować jak swego czasu mix(do pięt mu nie dorastacie)? Wam kury paść a nie w informatyków sie bawić 😛
Weź jeszcze najlepiej raportuj tych co zavotowali.
@Downlol, piszesz do huyskyego mam nadzieję. To on mi grozi sądem, a wiadomo jakie są groźby.
No kittens to eat ?
No vote.