【TUP】A derp, a merge and a gaping hole
Hell The Great
As no-one else has come out, I thought I may as well tag on a little response to a derp that someone in TUP may or may not have dropped. First and foremost, I think the biggest thing we need to appreciate; we are far too busy enjoying our bubbled existence to really think about delving into UKPP. Minus the odd ATO here and there, when we've helped PCP, UKRP and even UKPP, TTUPUPP (The TUP Unity Party Party) members rarely dare to risk the outside world. The only time we've ever been in UKPP was when we were asked to help out-vote this billend. TUP did basically found then sit in ESO for a while, but that was a group of us who got annoyed at Keers - outside of this, I can't really think of any TTUPUPP members who've sat in the outside world.
I am all for credit being given to TUP, when we aren't hibernating we're legit awesome, but our inactivity is the worst kept secret in the world. So yeah, Madelina derped and lost it and got in touch with Harambe, but I can pretty much guarantee even if Harambe was on the ballot on the 15th, we wouldn't be voting there.
The reason is incredibly simple. Moving a party to vote is 6 clicks. 6 clicks. Please do not do us the disservice of complaining about how inactive we are, and then assume we're going to 6click - I'd probably be overlord of the world if we could get people 4clicking, nevermind 6. So yeah, stuff has died down (because we're all hovering above edeath anyway,) but I hope this draws a line in the sand. Ignoring the fact we'd have no interest in interfering in another party anyway; I hope no-one will forget just how apathetic the vast majority of TUP members are should things like this come up in the future.
Seeing as I majestically namedropped PCP and ESO above, the following segue now makes perfect sense, and the above is in no way a disingenuous way to build into something else, I promise. The main thing I want to mention is pretty simple: PCP, ESO and TUP have a long history. From the moment I started playing the game, 【UK-Left】did some pretty cool stuff. This one time we had 70% of congress. This other time we won CP elections for 9 consecutive months. This one time we also may or may not have started the whole anti-oldfag thing, which ironically is now used against us: but then immitation is the best form of flattery. As well as that, the history of ESO is intrinsically linked with TUP: because it was founded by TUP members, for people who would've joined TUP not for the bearded one.
So yeah, cards on the table, PCP: stop floating outside the top 5 and merge with TUP. Whenever I'm PP I bring stuff up, and there's hesitation and discussion, with lots of positive feedback, but no results. Enter us. We're way cleaner than Wayne, I promise.
ESO: You're literally, without being obtuse in any way, my child. The whole ethos of the party was a rejection of the direction TUP took at that time; a direction that we nailed up and buried when the bearded one ascended into the next level of dastardly.
TUP will never die, and we'll probably never really ever drop below the top spot: we're apathetic, but not to the point of self-destruction. I don't propose a merger for the pure basis of numbers; we've been above and beyond any other party for months, and I doubt that will be changing this side of the day Plato turns the lights off. But what we do need, is an impetus and a group of people who is willing to pull their weight: a party can't just rely on a core group of a few people who do stuff, whilst others tread water and sit in the chairs of power.
So yeah, I've brought this up constantly in private, but it's time to come clean - we've got a hungry, gaping hole. Come fill it.
~jw
Comments
PS: No waynes.
You only mentioned me to get a vote... you are so see through jimmyw.
Pole
With the activity boost of the PCP members, would do wonders to the eUK left. Supported.
Yet when I suggested the very same thing a mere couple of weeks ago, I was berated because worst PCP had vastly different ideology to TUP...
Such hypocrisy.
They flip flop more then Skeggie beach in summer Pauly...
PCP merging upwards makes perfect sense given they form more of TUP's active congressmen than actual TUP do half the time. The only thing they get out of not being merged is Zaphod, who they don't even like anymore for some reason.
Gotta be honest tho, found Madelina's response to PTO stuff far more interesting than yours: https://prnt.sc/hbaoku
The most PCPs we've ever out in is 4, back when Congress was regional, and that month we got a total of 14 members of Congress.. The percentage is higher now, but it's not even close to half, let alone beyond. And yeah, I do admit her drop mic game is top notch, I can't even come close.
Had negotiations failed and we had been left with a much-reduced Congress, would TUP's list have been the same? With a 30-man Congress and the same list, half of TUP's Congress would have been drawn from other PCP, while if that number had been reduced to a 10-man Congress the proportion of other PCP members would have been significantly higher.
I did say the word "active" in my comment about your congress list. Relatively important distinction there.
You should see the discourse in PCP right now, what have you done James! Still it won't be long for a response.
It would be the smartest game move you have pulled if you do decide to call it a day with PCP.
The Left/Right basically comes down to in my opinion, those who want the people with buttons to do things against those that wish to see the community do things. It would be interesting to see parties setting their stalls out. It's been a long time since we had clearly defined parties and I think that is playing a major part in eUK's apathy. Ideas are no longer being attacked, due to people not having them, so instead we attack personalities.
I think that paragraph shows a bias towards... I don't even know. They both sound interchangeable. Also personality attacks are based on the individual rather than a community thing.
Could almost replace "Left/Right" with "Social/Mechanics"...
Do I need to go over the Mongress messages again for you? As you clearly stated, time and time again, in order to do things for the community, you need some semblance of authority. Be that total power in the form of CP or perceived power via a Minister title.
Whereas what you consider to be teh Right, basically, Pirate Cat Party are of the firm belief that grassroots, groups of like minded friends or even individuals with drive and passion are those that should be doing the doing. 'Government' are simply there to organise our military power and to be a focal point for forigs to our community.
Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but your comments in general are very much in support of the top down method, ours are very much bottom up method. You want the community to follow a certain predetermined path, we wish for the community to wander, explore.
In any game such as this, mechanics are the most important factor. Make your account better today then it was yesterday and no one cares how you fill your spare time.
I think that social and mechanics can come under either. Although I do agree that there must be words that describe the discourse in other manners than left and right.
Left and Right don't apply here in eRep in my opinion.
Ever since I am back I have been saying we should reduce parties and work together so I can only agree with this. Hence why I moved parties to be with the active majority in the UK.
Question is can parties be erased? Say TUP/ESO/PCP go all in TUP can you erase the other two so they don't exist anymore? Because if you can't there is no way you get the result you want.
Even better would be dissolve all parties and leave two choose from
I think parties need to be more honest about what it is they want and I think players also need to take a long look at how they wish to play the game and decide if they are backing the right horse and be prepared to switch it up if not. There will be people in BestPCP who agree with TUP's politics, but prefer the personalities of us and we'll have guys in TUP that agree with our points mostly, but are turned off by how we conduct ourselves.
We need 5 parties simply for mechanics, but the 5 parties we have could be more clearly defined. It's not so bad leaving your party behind and taking a chance with another group is it?
I haven't regret it yet no. In fact I recommend more UKRP & others to join us. I welcome debate within the party and see things can get done. I hope TUP finds the same activity we have. It will be good for UK
The culture of UKPP was always open, free and fair, I'd like to hope that BestPCP will carry that on and improve on it. After all, it was the party that gave rise to people such as Sir Nick, Alfa, Me, BigAnt and Dapper. As log as your idea is good and robust, we will back you regardless of the personality disorder you have! 😛
All about tolerance man, Mitte is even working with me and she is not my biggest fan 😃 Which is not important...
I'm not hating on this, makes sense.
speaks truth
People give too much weight to what party someone is in.
Did you know you can get arrested for hanging around and asking people to fill your hole?
What would be the differance for worstPCP? They already are the most active in the TUP lineup. And they have those spots secured for sure, since you need their votes for whatever you need their votes.
On the other hand it makes perfect historical sense, that the ruling communists being the first to jump ship, thus becoming instant billonaires due to the connections they made while they betrayed the ideals of their party in the prior years.
I was going to say that the combined active members of the parties would create more activity and make the game more enjoyable to both parties, but then remembered TUP doesn't have any active members, so it'd probably be same as usual for LamePCP.
Of course, they could use this opportunity to peacefully PTO TUP and earn communism a massive amount of 2 clickers. Since the PTO would be doing TUP a favor with the active leadership that would come out of it, the only moral problem with this would be the expansion of communism. On the other hand, this would only work if LamePCP would be fully accepted into the fold and the current TUP members wouldn't continue mindlessly prioritizing TUP inactive oldfags, which I suspect may not happen.
Overall, I''m not sure the LamePCP would benefit much from this, but since you can always go back to your old party if this doesn't work, I think it'd be smart of them to try the merger.