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The problem with reforming it is that every side thinks they are right with no want to compromise...this is partly why I believe my position (don't know who else agrees with it) is the best solution

Molly my comment was not in regards to your proposal. It is pretty clear who I was directing it at based on the previous comment in the thread, so please don't suggest that.

Over the past month our two parties have worked well together and all of that good work we put in has now gone out the window because we're biting when no biting needs to occur. As a result of this sweeping change, the Prime Minister's failure to make an appointment online last night to discuss the problem, I will no longer be assisting the government with regards to resolving this. I believed I was doing both them and the community a service because I was the only senior member of Cabinet engaging on the issue. It's clear now it's not helping either side.

Despite the people making their choices clear in the Senate race, those who couldn't even be bothered to put their name forward have hijacked the debates on ADF funding (yes, I name Majester) and it is clear this election is going to come down to a political game of ADF vs MU funding with ADF proponents preparing to take aim at those who wish to see genuine reform as "unpatriotic", "unAustralian" - take your pick.

My argument has been consistent for the past 3 years. The ADF is an arcane program with zero connection to the interactivity of modern game mechanics. It persistently refuses to show its records and prove its fulfilling its mandated purpose, yet has no issue blaming government. The ADF may think they're not accountable, but government is.

Given these recent events, I would also like to clarify for those wishing to politicise this issue, that despite rumours I will not be offering myself as a candidate for Prime Minister at the coming election. I give my best wishes to the ARP and KHMC membership and sincerely hope they can work past this obvious diversion at a time when the enemy is approaching and this feuding from those who did not even seek elected office have opted to shout from the cheap seats.

Cheers, Mick

This is to further comment on not showing records (which is suppose to be done monthly but I will give that a pass) but I had asked 2 times in 2 SEPERATE threads for Binda to give some information...after the third time she gave me "ADF have given X tanks to players" and if I wanted more info to make a seperate thread...seperate thread was made and I am awaiting answers

Watch her and Majester try and wiggle their way out of this. They can cook books better than Wayne Swan ever knew how.

We were moving forward, then the Swan dived and now we have a new way

Binda33 is not the minister of Defence nor the ADF Marshal. She is a General in the Military High command, like me. Think of us as Deputies who aid the Marshal and cover for her when she cannot be around.

The Australian Armed Forces Act stipulates that the ADF are required to give Senate a report within 48 hours of a request made to the MoD up to twice a month. It is therefore not a mandatory monthly report. Our budgetary expenditure is recorded monthly in the budget.

This stipulations are meant to prevent the ADF's time spent generating reports (as has happened in the past in a badgering campaign) and leaves the MoD to represent the ADF politically in the Senate (keeping the Marshal and MHC on the battlefield as much as possible). The MoD not being in Senate complicates our representation and Binda stepped up while Molly Jo was on leave. I have recently become involved because

You are also required to tell us what you want to know... the act lists the records that can be requested.

Is it the roster breakdown, number of soldiers supplied, actual money spent? Some of this, all of this? Help me to help you. What exactly do you want to know, Nicky and I will get on Tim Holtz and Molly Jo's arses to have it published. I will go look for your requests and try figure out what it is you are asking.
The ones I read basically said that you think that the ADF should do a report.

Nothing to cook. Our records are current and pretty straight forward. X soldiers, Y weapons dropped or cash supplied or gold issued. Z total cost.

Hello Majester...I have messaged ADF Marshall..CP ,MoD AND Binda the link to my questions which is on the forum I included Binda in the message because she had said she would answer any questions I had I am sorry I didn't include you as well

No problem, I will check the records so that they can can give you exact numbers speedily.

Take your time...you have 3 days I would be fine with you taking some time so we get the numbers correct

I have 48 hours if it is a normal request. So says the law.

this is not a normal request....when you see the questions you will understand...IG says question 2 falls under "specia;" so you have 72 friend

I can't understand the argument towards cutting off the supplies to the ADF because the government has not implemented the reforms it wanted. The result is that there is now NO funding from the government to the troops fighting for Australia. Just what are we paying taxes for exactly? What could be more important than keeping Australia on the map?

If you want to reform the way the funds are allocated, go ahead and do it, don't hold people to ransom.

I won't speak about the reform issue but the instance here where the remainder of the money was removed from access was because Binda was suspected of theft and the government opened an investigation.

Yeah, except for the small detail that nobody except Tim Holtz knew the money had been moved, not even the Minister of Finance, until Binda alerted Senate that our records showed that money was missing.
She sucks at stealing reporting herself like that.

um i told the MoF when he did it, infact i asked him exactly how to do it because of the buying of materials which is the way to transfer money in orgs

please refrain from making up bullshit

In Senate and ingame mail he states he did not know about it until he asked you.

We (congress) are awaiting a answer from the ADF about how they went through so much money so fast...it is a extreme amount that needs explained

but there was no examination of how we spent nearly $500,000, btw this is me not with my IG hat on.

If you look no senator raised any issues with it.

At this point SC I have to say your impartiality is coming into question. The Government has made several requests, you have enforced none of ours, yet you remain of abiding service to the petitioner who is also the focus of an Executive Branch investigation of possible theft.

With respect sir, if you feel you can't be even-handed in your service, it's time to consider your tenure.

The government has only made one request as per the AFAA act. Iif the government can not follow procedure then I have to rule on that. I rule on the laws in place and then the senate decides the outcome and can over rule me if it so wishes. It is ultimately the senates responsibility. The executive government has not bought to my attention any details of possible theft which should be its first port of call, instead it has done a knee jerk reaction without notifying senate or the IG as to what is going on.

Let's see. Thumbsuck math caclulation: average of 7q7 per day per soldier with 58 soldiers with a average cost of $11.70 per q7 means ADF should spend roughly of 7*31*58*$11.70 = $ 147,256.20 this month.

The exact number is altered by the mix of supply levels, number of soldiers who asked for supplies, and gold issued to Joeys for training.

The government budget was $6,500 which was never transferred. This means all of it came from the ADF organisations where we keep donations and supplied budget.

is that a joke?

ADF were budgeted to use 6500, i dont give a shit if there is 150 million AUD in the ADF org, you are allowed to use 6500.

anything more than that is theft of government property. i dont care if its a tradition that has no basis in law.

if you cut funding to those only in the MU and to new players then you will find that 6500 is a reasonable amount.

its simple

Wait... what? How is using the funds in the ADF org (ADF current account) theft of government property? This is funds that have already been given to the ADF, by previous governments and by ADF members. Surely the government withdrawing funds from the ADF account is theft of ADF property?

in RL if a government gives say 1 Mil to a govt department and they only spend 500k then that money goes back to the government and the goverment records less spending.

this is exactly what hasnt happened here.

look at it this way, if the RL Military had a couple trillion saved up of taxpayers money then we the people would be very upset no?

then the government takes it back and puts it back into government control. good or bad?

Likewise, if the Budget is a set amount and they spend 3.2 times that amount, that is theft as it wasn't approved. Binda and Majester have done such a great job arguing rules and regulations they have neglected to mention that.

Under your new rules perhaps. You cannot make up a new rule and retrospectively apply it. The ADF has been funding itself for a very long time. Binda was clear in the budget requesg that we required a top up to run till the end of the month. The total depletion of donations has been anticipated for 3 months now. The decision to follow this course of action to eliminate the problem every alternate government has with it was made a very long time ago. During the second? debate on this it was agreed it probably prudent and reasonable for the ADF to keep a weeks worth of supply in reserve to tide us through budget week. Problem is, budgets have shrunk faster than we spend, drawing it out.

Nothing but cyber terrorists. It's only a matter of time until the swift hand of justice bitch slaps you across the face.

Who cares........ eAUS is dead, you 10 or so are the only ones thinking anyones gives a who

PUT SOME BLOODY PICS IN .....

Voted. I am just getting sick and tired of all the good work people put into the ADF being unraveled because of people using it as an excuse to further their personal vendettas.

If the Government has plans for reform then put it up in the forums so the senate can vote and debate it, if they wont use the forums because of this current boycott then write an article encouraging mature discussion on its future. So far nothing.

Molly, if you need a shoulder you know where I am but I can not guarantee your personal safety if i feel frisky at being close to a woman who is vulnerable. Anyway let me know so I can clean up the van for you.

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I'm not going to disagree with anything you have said, but I will say this:

Try finding a way to come up with the money to fund it. What most don't understand is that these made up laws that allegedly govern how a CP does its job (which bares no actual relationship to or enforcement by the game at all) originated in large part pre-MUs in game and at a time when the government could make money a lot easier than it can today.

People have a strange relationship with addition and subtraction and even if we tap into reserves like Majester has suggested, we have to withdraw $24,000 per month from them @4 weaps per day based on the 57 people we could identify. So let's be clear, our current monthly tax accrual is completely gone funding the current number @ 4 weapons/day - imagine they would want more?

What about MPPs and #brostralia? Not everything runs off donations or thin air.

There's dozens more because the ADF has a molested set up that has D3 and D4 in its Tango Training Crew. Who in their right mind considers D4 a "new player"? Then comes the answer - this is Binda and Majester we're talking about here.

This is precisely why we as a country don't let anyone become Minister for Finance. Kids always spend more than their allowance.

Thing is I agree in principal about the higher division players. I was sent supplies and returned them because I don't need them...shhhh, I'm stealing from Centrelink 😉 Seriously though my point of view is to make the ADF supplies for players below a certain rank, now that's my personal belief and nothing more and I do understand the arguments that the ADF is a black hole on finances....but...

If a system is in place then you should propose change rather than just stop it when there are genuine players who rely on those supplies. Sadly the Government hasn't put anything forward and just ended the supplies without any real in-game explanation which considering there are ministers who are boycotting the forums then why not use in-game articles to stimulate debate and discussion on this matter?

Also we have seen accusations of theft but until I see documentation proving that then I am not going to join in the accusations. Wheels are in motion on this but I am a little alarmed at what is being said so far from all sides.

lo and behold logic, you want to change the ADF into a newbie growth MU

please message Binda and Majester and tell them, they have refused to listen to 2 years worth of this argument.

furthermore i didnt end the supplies i left 2500 AUD in org which is actually almost half of the total budget which btw 20k AUD was used so i was giving the ADF even more money.

if the ADF leadership adjusted their spending habits to go in line with the government direction then they would find the funding allotted would be much easier to work with.

The limited supplies based on rank/level is a personal opinion based upon my time in the eUK where they had a daily supply of food to young players under level 30. I do see and agree with the point that after a certain level you really should be self sufficient., unless you aren't a gold buyer but then a screenshot of the companies you own would prove that they do need help still.

How the ADF is reformed is up to the Government though, throw up your plans and we'll debate it. Bindas opinions are just that - her opinions, just like mine are and yours and I respect each persons right to an opinion. I just worry the players without supplies are the ones suffering because of all this and there is no light at the end of the tunnel.

Just one comment I'd like to add on that - the disparity between eUK's taxation income Vs eAustralia's makes for a difficult comparison. If we were to base the ADF's coverage as "blanket" using Level, we would not have the funds to supply enough to cover all 80-100 hits for D1 and 2 players under Level 15.

I meant I believe in looking after eCitizens until they reach a certain level because of what i saw in the eUK, this is a system I think would be better suited to the ADF but they would have to be in the ADF and considering supplies could be better in other MU's then it would free the supplies sent to older players and those self sufficient, not to mention young players who choose other MU's rather than join the ADF....again that is my Independent opinion.

In my mind I know what I am on about and sound rather clever 😉

Dr Hugh, ive been arguing that exact point for months if not years.

it will fall on deaf ears.

The Joey program is a support program.
The current DO program is to make sure we have a pool of EB and Bazookas in wars.

The later program is unaffordable right now for all Divisions. The consensus is to weaken D3 & 4 and pump resourse into our weak D2. D1 has merit and is salvagable.

The problem is even the MU cannot build the reserve we need. We can no long fund Gold tanking because of donate limits and rockets cannot be horded. This is all we have left to hit above average. . Look at the numbers I posted. Budgets like 6500 abolish all programs since it isnt even enough to fund just the Joeys... new players under 250 Str.

My reading is that the government is declaring that we do not need Aussie damage. This is why I resist.

Prime Minister, Senate, Military High command, Australian Armed Forces Act, IG....

You guys do realise that not one of these things has anything to do with playing eRep, don't you?

You have gone so far away from the relativity simple game mechanics and have managed to complicate this shit so much it's actually impressive. lol.

No wonder you can't sort the ADF out, I can't even figure out which person with a made-up bullshit title is supposed to be in-charge.

The only person who matters is the CP. Binda and Majester are just on their monthly power hunger diet. Needs more fibre LOL!

..and yet though I'm not in charge of the ADF, Mick still sees fit to put 100% of the blame on me for the imagined slights that the CP and MoD accuse. Interesting right? It's pretty obvious that this situation has been set up by Tim and Flatty to score political points.

Logic from Crusadercarl as usual.

this is exactly what we are fighting against CC.

we want to end this complicated crap and make it fit within the simplicity of the game.

ijm from eAustralia i reject logic

The ADF should just fit into the game. Find MUs the difference.

this is unusual infin and i agree on something

Since the MoD hasn't bothered to contact any Officer in the ADF re any reforms he wants to propose, it's hard to make changes, since they must come from him in the first place.

So far, this is what I've hear😛

1. The government wants to reform the ADF and change to a system where MUs are directly funded. Yet no proposals for this have been put before a vote and apparently people are to believe that this is the fault of Binda (or Majester even), though they are not in government and their votes would not be needed to pass said reforms.

2. A large amount of funds was removed (stolen?) from the ADF organizations by Tim_Holtz, without any notification to anyone, who gave the reason that he a) suspected theft and b) though the ADF has overspent its budget. Yet the funds in those organization were funds previously allocated to the ADF and included donations from ADF members, etc - money that was NOT the government's to take back.

3. The funds allocated to the ADF in the budget, $6,500, were NEVER transferred to the ADF.

Having read those things, it is my layman's opinion that the current government is full of shit. If you wanted to reform the ADF, for whatever reason, then you should have proposed and passed new laws for this. Unilaterally taking money that was previously allocated to be distributed to the soldiers of the ADF is the very definition of theft. Accusing Binda or anyone else of theft and/or obstructing your reforms is pure hypocrisy. Holding the soldiers of the ADF to ransom because of your petty personal disputes is pathetic.

If you want to restore faith in this government then you need to:
1) Return the funds taken from the ADF
2) Review the ADF spending reports
3) Immediately implement reforms if that is your intention, rather than keeping people in limbo

listen to me right now

I DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT PERSONAL CONFICT HERE

the Government NEEDS to reduce spending while also not get fucking wiped.

1. the government can do what it likes, the forum is a load of shit, majority of the ARP does not participate due to discrimination from the very people who are arguing for the ADF to stay the way it is.

remove the admins and appoint ones that are democratically elected by the eAus populace and the ARP will return.

ingame the only mechanism to control the CP is impeachment, if the people dont like the ADF issue then impeach flatty. problem solved



2. i am the Minister of Defence, i have direct control of the ADF and DoD, meaning i determine how much funding the ADF gets, budget said 6500, so they use 6500.

just because there is more in the org does not give them the right to use the money, thats like your parents being out of the house so you take the $1000 under the mattress. you have access to the house so you can take the money right? even if your parents have said you are budgeted xyz



3. there was more than 6500 in the ADF org, you dont need to transfer money if more than 6500 is already in the org.

the money in the org is the property of the government, they determine where the ADF funds come from.




in conclusion i have decided to heed your call and will be returning the money to the org, however i will also be changing the password to the ADF org as i am apointing a new Marshall.

reforms will happen now