Forum and Congress: How to fix it. A proposal
Day 3,116, 04:14
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Published in Netherlands 
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by
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by Revvenge
A little while ago I posted an article detailing why eNetherlands politics has exploded, why congress is broken, and how I thought we should go about to fix it. This has resulted in some support and some opposition. As a result I posted it on the forum as a proposal for reform, which some felt was more clearly worded. Since some parties have pulled out of the forum, I've been asked to post that more clear version in an article, which you'll find below. It has little in the way of new information, but it might be easier to understand than my last article about it.
Hello everybody,
As you all know, we're in quite a bit of turmoil lately. There seems to be a bit of a power struggle. Parties have pulled out of the forum. Congress legitimacy is questioned. Active members take dubious actions.
In order to fix some of the major issues we've been facing, I've come up with a proposal. This proposal, currently, is not molded into a proposed law yet, but I've voiced it before at it seems to have some backing. I would like to ask all of you to consider this proposal, and see if it might be an acceptable way to steer our nation into calmer waters with more democracy.
The Proposal
- Forum votes are conducted by one Party Representative per party.
- Party Representatives get a number of votes equal to the number of votes their party received during the congress election.
- Proposals are accepted if the number of votes cast in favor is greater than a predetermined percentage of the amount of votes cast in the congress election.
- Party Representatives don't have to cast all their votes on one option. They can cast any number of votes on any number of options.
- In multiple option votes, a minimum percentage is still required.
- Quorums are no longer necessary.
Why is this reform needed?
I've pointed out in the past the congress, both in-game and on the forum, doesn't represent the voice of the people. The percentages in the election don't translate to the percentages of seats each party gets, both in-game and on the forum. This means the congress does not have a whole lot of right to decide things for the public. Voting with the votes the party has been given fixes this.
It also means parties are less susceptible to inactive or blacklisted members. Currently if a congress member is inactive, doesn't have a forum account, is blacklisted or is otherwise unavailable, their vote is not cast. It should be clear by, for instance, this post: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=13242, that some parties have better activity among their congress members than others. While some argue that those parties should then urge their members to be more active, but I think that's unfair to the voters. The voters favored the way one party thinks, but somehow their voice is worth less than someone who thinks otherwise.
Quorums will no longer be necessary, because proposals are accepted based on their absolute votes in favor. This fixes the problem of inactive congresses not being able to pass anything through quorum issues. Unfair purges are also no longer necessary.
Proposal acceptance no longer is based on timing. No longer will it matter when a vote is started or closed (aside from the usual congress transition period, as election time should stop voting for a little while). Results no longer can wildly differ from when the vote is up. We've seen many people voting too late or missing it entirely, due to inactivity or simple real life obligations keeping them from the forum during the vote. That issue will be fixed in this change.
Additional benefits
Parties will now have a more clear party identity. Currently many parties are just a bunch of politically interested people running for congress and voting for proposals independently from the others of the party or any laid down party policy. In fact, many parties hardly have a real clear party stance on anything to begin with. The most I've seen in that regard is the recent pulling out from the forums by two of them. Now parties will have an identity. People will know who they are voting for.
Parties and by extension congress members can be held accountable for their actions. Since decisions on the forum are now based on the votes cast by a party, their influence is directly related to how many people voted for them. If a party then does things that the public doesn't agree with, they can decide to stop voting for them, or vote for someone they like better. This means voting will matter again. And party stance will matter again.
Commonly brought up counter-arguments
"My Party Representative could vote against my wishes as congress member."
A: If your Party Representative doesn't listen to his or her party, this will be reflected in the votes for next term. Which party you run with now also is a real choice. I expect a transition period in which voters and congress members will switch parties to better suit what they like and how they want to be treated. Parties that have an internal dictatorship will most likely hurt themselves. I do expect in some cases party policy will overrule personal views, but that's how politics usually works.
"This is not how the game works."
A: I believe eRepubik is in many ways based on real life politics. In real life Dutch politics many proposals are decided by the Party Fraction Leader voting for the party as a whole. Individual votes are cast in some proposals, but not all. It is not abnormal to do it this way. That being said, if your party is democratic, the votes cast by your Party Representative probably still reflects the internal views, as he can cast votes on various options.
"This does not reflect in-game mechanics."
A: I believe eRepublik is just the base game. Every eCountry creates their own unique version of an eCountry through IRC and forums and the laws laid down there. While some things might be similar in most eCountries, others are not. This creates a unique gameplay and adds a level to eRepublik. It makes eCountries a unique quality other than nationality, size and activity.
I'm sure some details still need to be ironed out, but I think this would be way more democratic than our current system, which hardly is democratic at all. And while I believe there are some other things that are bothering people, this would at least fix some of the issues people have with the forum and its congress currently.
Hello everybody,
As you all know, we're in quite a bit of turmoil lately. There seems to be a bit of a power struggle. Parties have pulled out of the forum. Congress legitimacy is questioned. Active members take dubious actions.
In order to fix some of the major issues we've been facing, I've come up with a proposal. This proposal, currently, is not molded into a proposed law yet, but I've voiced it before at it seems to have some backing. I would like to ask all of you to consider this proposal, and see if it might be an acceptable way to steer our nation into calmer waters with more democracy.
The Proposal
- Forum votes are conducted by one Party Representative per party.
- Party Representatives get a number of votes equal to the number of votes their party received during the congress election.
- Proposals are accepted if the number of votes cast in favor is greater than a predetermined percentage of the amount of votes cast in the congress election.
- Party Representatives don't have to cast all their votes on one option. They can cast any number of votes on any number of options.
- In multiple option votes, a minimum percentage is still required.
- Quorums are no longer necessary.
Why is this reform needed?
I've pointed out in the past the congress, both in-game and on the forum, doesn't represent the voice of the people. The percentages in the election don't translate to the percentages of seats each party gets, both in-game and on the forum. This means the congress does not have a whole lot of right to decide things for the public. Voting with the votes the party has been given fixes this.
It also means parties are less susceptible to inactive or blacklisted members. Currently if a congress member is inactive, doesn't have a forum account, is blacklisted or is otherwise unavailable, their vote is not cast. It should be clear by, for instance, this post: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=13242, that some parties have better activity among their congress members than others. While some argue that those parties should then urge their members to be more active, but I think that's unfair to the voters. The voters favored the way one party thinks, but somehow their voice is worth less than someone who thinks otherwise.
Quorums will no longer be necessary, because proposals are accepted based on their absolute votes in favor. This fixes the problem of inactive congresses not being able to pass anything through quorum issues. Unfair purges are also no longer necessary.
Proposal acceptance no longer is based on timing. No longer will it matter when a vote is started or closed (aside from the usual congress transition period, as election time should stop voting for a little while). Results no longer can wildly differ from when the vote is up. We've seen many people voting too late or missing it entirely, due to inactivity or simple real life obligations keeping them from the forum during the vote. That issue will be fixed in this change.
Additional benefits
Parties will now have a more clear party identity. Currently many parties are just a bunch of politically interested people running for congress and voting for proposals independently from the others of the party or any laid down party policy. In fact, many parties hardly have a real clear party stance on anything to begin with. The most I've seen in that regard is the recent pulling out from the forums by two of them. Now parties will have an identity. People will know who they are voting for.
Parties and by extension congress members can be held accountable for their actions. Since decisions on the forum are now based on the votes cast by a party, their influence is directly related to how many people voted for them. If a party then does things that the public doesn't agree with, they can decide to stop voting for them, or vote for someone they like better. This means voting will matter again. And party stance will matter again.
Commonly brought up counter-arguments
"My Party Representative could vote against my wishes as congress member."
A: If your Party Representative doesn't listen to his or her party, this will be reflected in the votes for next term. Which party you run with now also is a real choice. I expect a transition period in which voters and congress members will switch parties to better suit what they like and how they want to be treated. Parties that have an internal dictatorship will most likely hurt themselves. I do expect in some cases party policy will overrule personal views, but that's how politics usually works.
"This is not how the game works."
A: I believe eRepubik is in many ways based on real life politics. In real life Dutch politics many proposals are decided by the Party Fraction Leader voting for the party as a whole. Individual votes are cast in some proposals, but not all. It is not abnormal to do it this way. That being said, if your party is democratic, the votes cast by your Party Representative probably still reflects the internal views, as he can cast votes on various options.
"This does not reflect in-game mechanics."
A: I believe eRepublik is just the base game. Every eCountry creates their own unique version of an eCountry through IRC and forums and the laws laid down there. While some things might be similar in most eCountries, others are not. This creates a unique gameplay and adds a level to eRepublik. It makes eCountries a unique quality other than nationality, size and activity.
I'm sure some details still need to be ironed out, but I think this would be way more democratic than our current system, which hardly is democratic at all. And while I believe there are some other things that are bothering people, this would at least fix some of the issues people have with the forum and its congress currently.
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"Since some parties have pulled out of the forum"
some party members have pulled out. seeing as all parties are voting.
Please odan leave the ecountry, we need that to improve eNL, please do it for your country, we need you out of everything, just saying.
Why don't you leave yourself? Odan has been here since he was here, he never left, has always been loyal. Why does he need to leave
Because abuse!!! And closed minded. Please quit again Legendarisch and don't come back again. Thank you.
You are toxicity to this community, and an idiot. please leave and don't come back. Thank you.
Ofc, cancer cure is toxic, but best treatment, I'm just trying to cure eNL.
Stop one minute. You compare Odan with Cancer? Do you know, how stupid it is to say that? DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE LOST SOMEONE THANKS TO CANCER? Wow you are such a cool kid. please kiddo, get out of here now.
Yes, cry me a river like if I care your stupid argument "DO YOU KNOW PEOPLE..." If you are so worried go cure the cancer and study hard instead being here in otherwise be quite quiet, don't be so pathetic and predictable with such a stupidity.
Sorry, comparing Odan with cancer is just sick man. you fucked up bro.
Both are bad, I find it as a good comparison.
Yeah, you are sick boy. you think your tough shit but you aint nothing. do us a favor and walk away from this. i mean you can say anything, but comparing someone with cancer, that, that is just a no go. idiot.
Just admit you are a bad troll and a waste of time. Drama queen go quit more and do your pathetic stuff, you're an expert. Ass's licker. No one fucking you wants you and you are Dutch, see how pathetic.
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I don't like this deflecting of the discussion. Even if no one pulled out of the forum, there is still a dissatisfaction with the current system. So why not improve, or try so, anyway? Why the conservatism?
He wants to be the dictator because he really believes a bunch of shit rules invented and controlled by him > game mechanics. Hahahaha, in other words he really believes he can be a dictator just cus a forum, poor odan.
am i not one of the people participating in the debate on the forum? i even proposed somewhat of a middle ground solution.
Yes you do, but you and Legendardisch have the tendency to make it look like there's no problem, no one really cares and that's it out of the kind heart of some that there are proposals like these being discussed 😛
The point is that not everyone will read this if it is just on the forum.
still means the point is incorrect 😉 and seeing 1 of the persons screaming the hardest actually visits the forum more than she did before this whole situation.....
Can we at least agree that the official party stance of ReL is that they currently boycott the forum, even if they have party members who don't? In addition, GPN's CP candidate has the forum boycott as part of his candidacy statement.
Not that it matters.
No no and no, until odan stop to use the forum or actually lose his administrative rights/commands and start to be impartial and no a power seeker with his friends (I've a dream) nothing you have said will work.
So instead using a dead forum which only make this ecountry more retarded and pathetic you should start to use other ways of communication.
It's better if we just create a new forum without odan and his friends. I find this the best solution.
This, Revvenge is why your solution fails, we will keep the people who just want to disabandon everything, because they can't win.
You never won, even though you are licking Odan's butt, hahahaha, pathetic, but you are at time, just quit the game with dignity.
@Legendardisch: That has nothing to do with the proposal at all. Nor is disabandon a thing. The proposal never pretended to fix people not visiting the forum, just making it more fair for those that do and those that vote.
It's funny to see you both agree with eachother that this is not the right solution 😛
Yes I'm agree Spir Tus, Legendarisch and Revvenge are totally wrong, best solution is odan leaving our ecountry with his friends, or stop to use that dead forum full of abuse.
Yes I'm agree Spir Tus, Aars and Revv are totally wrong. Best solution is Aars leaving our country with his other accounts, or stop thinking about solutions not fixing anything.
I still disagree with this proposal, again, some change needs to be made, but, this is not the solution to do that in my opinion.
Yes I'm agree we just need you quitting again and odan in another country and alone in his forum so he can abuse of himself.
Why don't you quit?
Because I'm not you! Mr. Apologies and now Mr. QQuiting, you are just a drama queen! We don't need you! We have bbc, so there's no need to read you again.
And I am not you, Mr. Crybaby and now Mr. TToxicity. You are just another swiss! We don't need you! We have Quincy Gario, so there's no need to read you again.
Thanks for your words, notice that I don't need an article by you apologising 😘
Thanks for your words, notice that I don't need to be on facebook by you crying each time 😮
What? Do you lost your mind?
Maybe you lost your mind. Wait, that occured at your birth.
You are a retard with that FB imaginary idea.
This article got more comments then Aaaseilern has brain cells. its a wonder.
You are pathetic and a waste of time.
It's sad that Legendardisch, Odan and Kimi are single-handly destorying any sensible discussion, while there is a well elaborated and daring proposal at hand.
Also a possible alternative would be to give the the Party Represenative as much votes as there are in-game Congressmen, each seat divided by the total amount of % in the vote (e.g. getting 40% in the elections and only having 2 people = 20% per vote).
This way there is still a possibility to split votes in controversial matters. And if the Party Representative (I propose the PP to be it to have a relation to in-game mechanics) abuses this and doesn't consult his people, he will just be accountable in the next PP Elections.
In the end, it's kinda how it works in RL as well. Only in the most sensitive situations we see people voting against party lines.
The Party Representative in my proprosal, unlike in real life politics, will have the choice to put any amount of votes in any amount of options. S they can reflect a division in their ranks. Having each CM hold their fair share of the votes is maybe an option as an alternative, though PPs can simply implement this themselves for the party, so the option is sort of there as a workaround. Some might say the direct way giving CMs their share is better, but that again relies on them visiting the forums, and in some cases a PP might want to avoid a CM going in against party policy, which might be an option some parties might want.
And, indeed, it does have similarities to how real life votes work. It's not as alien as some of the opposition might think.
I care a shit! The truth is until this community stop to follow shit rules in some dead forum instead game mechanics nothing will improve. It's stupid, like who the fuck will follow a rule when in eRepublik that rules has 0 effects in the gameplay.
The rule has a lot of effects if it is supported by many. And in fact, most basic rules are supported by almost everyone. That's the beauty of this game, you can create your own society.
i discuss on the place where we need to discuss. i only pointed out an error in the preamble.
No, you are just failing and taking advantage in a dead forum, nothing more.
I just can't believe this community is so blind and pathetic to fall in this sick game. That forum, this dictatorship are killing the ecountry, and please a law book who can't affect the gameplay, really? What's next "the Dutch police"?
I for one like the idea. doesn't solve everything but it at least has the potential to approve matters and provide some ground to let the forum in place.
Clearly 2 players (or is it 1?) don't like it. One of them obviously resurrected as he did quit according to himself....