The Bastion: Forum
Day 3,110, 01:49
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Published in Netherlands 
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by
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by Spir Tus
This article is a reaction to the recent developments and thoughts of some politicians leaving the forum and let down our country and our people.
The issue with Tonie in the role as Dictator and CP at the same time, and his resignation, lead to some things happening. For me I realized things should be different and I'm not going to wait till congress is going to do something about it. So I applied for CM and I'm talking with a lot of people to see what their opinions are and how we can get everyone on one line. That's impossible, but I will try either way and see how far we get.
GPN and ReL have announced to leave the forum, abondon the law and by doing so abandoning the voters and the people who voted for them. They will no longer be part of politics, which is a shame. But you have to understand they are not just leaving the country be, they want to change the political system from the forum to ingame. I applaud these thoughts, but I question them at the same time. The forum might be really bad, but ingame will be much worse. If we would move all to ingame politics (which won't happen if you make moves like this), than the transparancy of politics will be worse than with the forum. The party politics will be stronger than ever. Voting procedures will be decided by inactive people. And the worst thing, is that politics will be more exclusive, which means that the normal person who is interested in politics, can't be part of it until he's chosen as CM. We will only have backroom politics in all parties.
I propose a middle ground between abandoning the forum and keeping the forum. I think we should keep the forum and the laws, but change both things entirely. People with biases should leave positions to people who are more neutral. I'm sorry to say, odan, but whatever your intentions are, the consequences of them are really bad for our country. It's time to admit this is the case. I don't like to make these conclusions like I did too with the kimi case, but I think odan in the CoC/Admin position will hurt us all more than it helps. The laws should be revisioned, and the idea is to do this with the whole community. Posting articles with chapters/articles of the lawbook and talk about them together. What is needed, what is not needed. The lawbook should be much smaller and serving the ingame situation, instead of the other way around. We won't agree about the new laws, but we can at least talk about it and see what everyone thinks of it. Maybe in the end we can make a law proposal the majority likes, so we can implement it.
How to do this? I'm not doing this on my own. As you maybe know, a lot of law revision projects have failed. It is a lot of work and costs a lot of time. So it won't be my project, but of the whole community. I would like to invite everyone to think along and some active people to help posting the articles and keep the discussion going.
The forum will stay as a debate area, but the people in charge should be less powerful. The laws who make the forum powerful, have to go or stripped down.
I think this is a way to find a middle ground to the anti-forum people and the pro-forum people. The forum is now a symbol of a corrupt elite, but I think we can change this together. Let's show we are able to unite ourselves and work together for once, instead of just simple abandoning all that is bad.
I hope you would consider this an option and support this project. Stripping down the lawbook, changing laws to match the ingame situation and make the forum a safe place for everyone which won't add anything substantial to the game. If it was possible to do things ingame, I would definitely go for it. But it is sadly not possible to create a better situation than we have on the forum right now.
Spir Tus
A Bastion of Truth
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So what you propose is an even looser moderation style? Surely you understand that would carry it's own problems with it.
I think we have to make concessions to the system. Less moderation. We should treat the system not like a theoretical model we all agree on is the best to have and apply to all situations, but just talk about everything with the people who care about it, and make decisions together. Not a democracy, but just a group of interested people who want to make a difference. Just basic guidelines and basic moderation. Imo, no 24 hour deadlines, quorums, and whatever. But that's something we have to look all into to see who agrees and who doesn't.
That actually sounds fairly reasonable. And might be a better fit for our smaller community.
I wouldn't want to abolish both 24hour deadlines and quorums(that would give the Chairman of Congress too much power). But abolishing quorums and considerably extending deadlines or abolishing deadlines and keeping a quorum in place sound like causes I could support.
On the forum i responded to something revvenge said, we could try and bring back senate to 10 people instead of 40, it shouldn't be hard to calculate back what numbers each party should get for senator. It would ensure a far more active group, and easier time reaching quorums.
you are wrong my friend, by allowing this forum to rule us we have abandoned the voters and the people who voted for us. We are now correcting this, and apologize for not doing it earlier.
It's not the forum that rules. It is the people on the forum who rule. And those people (you are one of them), are people who are interested in politics and making our country better. If you leave the forum, you are no longer willing to make a difference. You can only get rid off a system by using the system itself. You have to play the game if you want to win. If you drop out, you can't win and you can't lose. Which is just abandoning the country and its people.
Even if you abandon the forum, you can't do anything if not everyone is following your move. If a majority agrees on abandoning the forum, of course we should do that! But I will defend a middle ground which will hopefully please the anti forum people and the pro forum people. Or displease them both.
Nobody enjoys being on the forum, it is a place of ill repute where scoundrels hang around to prey on unsuspecting citizens. The laws, voting system and general representation is also rotten. This forum needs to be destroyed ASAP. And we don't need it for anything useful to E-Republic.com.
You want pure indirect representation, but you don't want transparancy. Which means you exclude the citizens from the decision making process. With the idea I propose we work towards a more direct system with no representation, but just a group of people who want to change stuff. And everyone can join, so no exclusion, and full transparancy. Also you don't have to represent the interests of your followers, but only the interest of your own. Which makes it a more fairer system imo.
And if we are able to remove the corruption from the place we should use as platform, that would be even better.
On me being CoC. i only candidated because nobody wanted to do it. Next CoC election cycle i will do the same as last one and not candidate, but if again nobody steps forward...
On me being admin, there are 3 other admins that have seniority over me, they will step in if i do something i'm not supposed to do. I've also been Global mod for almost 3 years before that. so i'm pretty sure the admins had an idea if i was suited for that position.
I also think it is wrong to think you can't change the moderation. Indeed the CoC elections are open, so everyone can step in. That is the first thing we should do.
I'm not sure if it is pure thanks to you as a person, or that's the job who causes these situations. Because you are linked to those jobs I think it's best take a good look at it all.
Apparently some people have the feeling that the admins are biased, so that would also be related to the other admins. It's also for longer than just this month.
Might I suggest you give it 24 hours so that non-congress people can apply next time before applying? I can't remember whether you have in the past, but that gives the highest chance of finding someone other than yourself. Regardless of whether you agree on the issues raised, you can't deny people are not particularly happy with you as CoC, even if they don't feel confident they can be CoC themselves.
i waited almost 48 last time.....
Long story short: odan is really bad for our country. The sooner we get rid of this bully the better, for the whole of the eNetherlands.
Hi MdR o/
A secundary issue with those go f** off forums people is that we would publicize any decisions to possible enemies.
I also dissaprove of your ideas.
as it stands, everyone is able to partake, but the people neglect to do so.
You do know how real politics work? you vote for people to represent you, this happens here aswell.
People who hate the forums hate everything that is not in their favor.
That's how a real representative democracy works. Which we aren't and never were. I have tried to live up to the ideals of this system, but it makes it worse to try make it look like this system. Instead just having what we have, adjust it slightly and just take the easiest way to do things.
There are two options imo. Or you go fully for an indirect democracy and make it work. This means a very extensive lawbook with general rules which can be applied to specific situations. The lawbook as an answer to everything. That's what I was trying to do the last two years.
Or you can just take the system as it is right now. A group of people who are interested in politics getting together to discuss things and decide stuff. Let's optimize that system instead of an utopian one.
Hey Spir Tus,
I read your in-game PM, but as luck would have it, it appears the PM system is quite broken and won't allow me to send messages. I have therefore opted to message you on the forum. Turns out it still is good for something I guess. Anyway, while I try to be on IRC at times, I'm still best contacted on the forum, due to the issues I'm having in-game.
Okay, I will check the forum then 😛
I will agree Odan being in posting of Power seems very controversial but since nobody seems to want and do it, nobody should complain about it either. And as said there are Admins above him if he would really step out of line they would act. But sure lets replace Odan with someone that isn't controversial, willing to do it, and will be trusted enough by the actually owner of the forum to carry such powers.
Tada 1 problem down, what else is suppose to be so bad about forums? Cause honestly they are completely transparent, and allow anyone to partake mitch they are eNL citizens course. Like people can partake in this articels, which aside from those that use the forum actually do. Cause no one else gives a F*** as long as our nation is save we have wars to fight in, and the occasional weapons and information.
So really aside from Odan being controversial.. for the last 2 or 3 years maybe longer, and the sometimes very heated discussions (democracy) what is really the problem with the forum?
Right that the group that can't get the majority of the people that care enough to run this country agree with them, so now they trow a damn childish tantrum and claim to do so in the name of the people of eNL.
So if anything i would like to vote Odan to be the next Dictator, why? well i sure in hell don't like him but if you are going to behave like little damn kids i can't wait to see the river you guys will be crying.
Cause if you guys even behaved with half a brain you first come up with alternatives, even half assed onces and secondly you wouldn't keep talking about how undemocratic the forum is, and than single handed declare dictatorship to be over the forum to be death and screw the laws.
Half brain we that's really nice Fosite. I understand the forum elite are feeling the illegitimate power they had floating away, however I think you need to control your emotions and keep this civil.
How would you call people who are acting like they are being disadvantaged act out by trowing a tantrum, cause that is what you guys are doing.
No alternatives are named so far, and we are good 2 days into this discussion, on top you already been announcing Forum is closed dictatorship will disappear, cause you disagree with the forum and accuse it of being undemocratic when you guys single handed declare all this things over, while the other side is offering up possible solutions.
So yes you guys are functioning on half a brain that is not a insult, that is a fact. And if you where objective enough to take a step back and see at what you are doing and what you are saying you would come to the same conclusion.