Legion is not ESO/Who are Legion?
Ullok
In his needlessly dogmatically hostile article on New Era’s performance in the January 2013 congressional elections, Sage Goku sai😛
“The only thing we came second on was the activity of our members, despite it being significantly more than UKPP and TUP. 74% of our party and PCP voted which is outstanding compared to all but one other party. ESO beat us with their 97% however that is explained by many of them being "neutral" in Legion MU and not being in ESO in game.”
First the number of votes cast for each account for a maximum of 98.21% of ESO (112 members after recount) and 73.54% for NE+PCP combined membership bases(223 members after recount) .
Secondly the 35 UK citizens (which would make up 31.25% of ESO) in the 261 strong MU who are unaffiliated with a British political party are free to vote as they please, that is not to say none, some or all of them voted ESO, just that Legion doesn't endorse or condone vote directing.
Whilst ESO does make up a large percentage of the Legion, this is to be expected as they would have transferred in the switchover. ESO personnel put in a lot of time, effort and resources to turn the former “ESO Legion” into a model of what a MU could be, just to donate it to the country, and continue to put the same amount of effort into it to keep it working (rather than making a new ESO MU), because it is the right thing for the country. (o7 Emergy)
The Legion is an apolitical MU, people wanting to be spared the “Vote this way” messages that plague party MU feeds will naturally flow to somewhere (Legion, RADC, Funky, etc...) that doesn’t bombard their soldiers with propaganda. Throughout the entire election period there was (that I saw) 1 “vote for me” message put into the MU feed (admittedly from an over-eager first-time ESO candidate) and that was only yesterday. The result: it was quickly taken down.
The Legion is not a political entity, and so does not explain why ESO’s votes-to-member ratio was so high.
What could explain it was that this term, jamesw has reinvigorated ESO, contacting every single member and used the opinions of anyone willing to voice them to carve-out policies the entire party could debate, vote on and adopt.
Another possible explanation could be that with the return of practical policies and firm ideals (an article that got 53-afaik unbought-votes) unaligned people became inspired as well, by something different from the “You're in our party so you vote for us” policies we generally see.
We can never know for sure what the reason was, unless records of who voted which way were published (never happen) and we ask them why, but the above are evidently more likely than Goku’s unfounded claim.
That all said, New Era and PCP had a good result and I hope that the other parties will see this as a challenge to get activity up without resorting to the familiar methods I was calling for an end to at the start of the month.
EDIT:
I was going to turn this information into an article of its own, with a different focus, but as there is interest in it here.
WHO ARE LEGION?
As you can see the largest single group of Legionaries are members of ESO (28.57
😵, followed by TUP (15.83
😵, UKRP (14.29
😵and UKPP (9.27
😵, but people from all the top 10 parties are members, along with some smaller parties (like Dharma Initiative).
65.49% of ESO members are also in Legion, but other large contingents can be found in UKRP (41.57
😵and TRS (37.50
😵and there are obviously smaller groups in parties who have an established associated MU of their own (RN, BA, TUPF, PA).
13.51% of Legion soldiers are unaligned British citizens, if Legion was a funnel for getting people into the any party this wouldn’t be the third largest segment of political choice in the MU.
As for Captains, the figures are weighted towards ESO because ESO members were the ones holding the responsibility when the change came and are the ones applying for the position now, there is not a ban on other party’s members being Captains as can be seen in Reg 4, 5 &6, just for the most part a job well done by people who are also ESO members. This will probably even out in time.
As has been said by Carlini below:
“Of course we have more ESO members in The Legion than other parties. This is down to two facts. 1) It was originally ESO - Obviously self explanatory. 2) ESO currently (it seems soon to change) has no official MU. For that reason ESO members have to decide where to go. There are a handful of non political MUs but most are deemed attached to a party. An ESO member then has a choice of going in an MU where they will often be victimised for their party, lower supplies due to their party or one of the few non-political MUs. Of those non-political MUs are they likely to join their friends from their political party? Seems likely to me.
Other MUs have more of a choice, they have their own MU with their current friends in their political party. However from the amount of PMs I am getting recently (and over the past 2/3 months) it really seems like people are tiring of the politics in the military and just want to fight for their country without the nonsense.”
It may be confusing to some to see how what was a political MU can possibly become apolitical (especially so quickly), but a number of people from across the spectrum of memberships have declared (below) that is just how Legion operates. It doesn’t instruct people how to vote, push the agenda or incentivise membership of one party or another and partisan posts don’t last long.
(this may seem a bit pro-ESO, but it is germane)
ESO has never been interested in forcing its views on people (that doesn’t mean to say they don’t have them or vehemently back their position,) it was and is more interested in the national “good” and when the last government run MU (BEF) collapsed it was decided that relinquishing their MU was the right thing to do, at the expense of the party. If ESO controlled Legion ESO should be twice the size of the UKPP, not have slipped from 3rd to 6th and had to battle its way back into the top 5.
Comments
I think that shows the Legion isn't neutral and was used by ESO for votes
elaborate
The Legion is part of ESO simple always has been , always will be , you don't need to be a genius to see where it would be easy to canvas votes , as the members they are voting for are in the LEGION
http://www.erepublik.com/en/citizen/profile/1950883 ESO LEGION MEMBER
http://www.erepublik.com/en/citizen/profile/6953389 ESO LEGION MEMBER
http://www.erepublik.com/en/citizen/profile/6981713 ESO LEGION MEMBER
http://www.erepublik.com/en/citizen/profile/6864094 ESO LEGION MEMBER
http://www.erepublik.com/en/citizen/profile/4609696 ESO LEGION MEMBER
http://www.erepublik.com/en/citizen/profile/6962303 ESO LEGION MEMBER
Every Single One is part of the Legion STOP saying the LEGION Is neutral you are the political wing for ESO and more like a Wolf in Sheep clothing , trying to pretend to be something you are not !
Why has only Legion members been elected to ESO congress -- case proven.
Ouch. Don, I sense MAJOR butthurt on your part
Here is the list of each party member's into congress and the units there in.
ESO
legion 6
New Era
british army 5
pcp 3
eso 1
funky miltra 1
TUP
tup 4
kraven 1
legion 2
angry angel 1
bef 1
UKPP
navy 6
dental core 2
free brit 1
one vision
legion 2
liberty 1
senitals 1
royal navy 1
I'm only pointing out the facts, other can draw there own conclusions .
Ouch. Don, I sense MAJOR butthurt on your part ? Butthurt Didn't you see New Era and PCP finished 1st ? 🙂 I just replying to Ullok article on what Goku said , pointing out the FACTS.
Legion is neutral, it doesn't influence either vote direction or membership of any party in any way.
"Why has only Legion members been elected to ESO congress -- case proven."
ESO congress members were chosen on the basis of enthusiasm and willingness, with priority being given to new players/MPs. Emergy was given the #1 spot so he could provide wisdom and support to these new faces and anyone else, thanks to his previous 9 terms.
65% of ESO are in the Legion but only make up 28% of the MU. Where else are ESO supposed to get their congressmen if nobody else applies, there were 3 other units represented in potential candiates, 2 had multiple congress trophies so would have been discounted whilst the other has been around longer and I doubt has shown enough enthusiasm (so could vanish mid-term) to justify giving them the spot.
To be fair, the British Army is very blatently political and shouldn't be "official" at all.
Any MU that has been linked to a party will never be seen as neutral
Also by your logic "All UKRP MPs are in Legion, so UKRP must have got all its votes from Legion"
I wouldn't be so harsh if the British Army didn't title their articles "Official". That is complete bullshit, and you know it
If ESO used legion the way other parties assumed we did, we would be the #1 party in size, voted and congress %.
the reason there are lots of eso are in legion is because they chose to be there. The same that lots of NE ate in BA. Although, don, we don't message the new boomers of the legion and inform them of s political wing like you do.
Legion is separate, ESO is actually working away at founding a new MU, why would we do so if we were linked to legion?
I agree with what aces said
Any MU that has been linked to a party will never be seen as neutral
All you have to do is click here http://www.erepublik.com/en/main/party-members/28#1and see the legion avatar all over ESO pages so to say ESO is not Legion is treating people like idiots
Don Dapper knows about as much about Legion as I care about whatever abomination of an MU he's using to promote his political party this month. Good article, politics are not allowed in Legion.
It is like telling us the sun don't shine saying the Legion isn't ESO
I quote from the founders article of both the Legion and ESO.
The ESO Legion (now unconnected to ESO, and called The Legion) Do you think that fools anyone ? you just took 1 word out now we are meant to believe you are neutral ?
Don, the Legion does not have any ties to ESO. It's not Legion's fault that they offer a superior MU. It truly is apolitical, unlike that British Army of yours. Never has a leader of the Legion ever try to sway me.
It's stuff like this that annoys the crap out of me.
Voted, btw.
Don try asking one of the many people who left your MU due to its political nonsense. I believe Ulock actually messaged me a while ago and left your MU because of it, however I may be miss remembering.
James Scarlet above is clearly a NE member, how about you listen to him and not be upset that Legion are flying.
I have seen no proclamations in "The Legion" chat supporting ESO...
I'm a legion member and part of the ESO, that's my right, I choose where I want to be, I was a member of the UKRP, but joined one of their IRC chat and was snubbed by the other members.
So I joined a party that actually wanted to listen to my opinions, I was not told to join the ESO, I did it after looking at all the available parties.
The Legion is great for the UK, it only does good for all of the UK, it helps so many players level up and gain experience, with lots of support from the higher ranking members.
I know its helped me and in the process I have become a better EUK citizen.
ONLY LEGION MEMBERS COMMENTING SO FUNNY
LEGION = ESO True fact bro !
Carlini8 nothing to do with the Legion flying stop trying to hide behind your own lies ESO is the Legion and visa versa
ESO elected 6 members of the legion TRUE FACT now you can round up 100 legion members to proclaim the ESO is not the Legion but you are not kidding anyone pretending to be neutral
still waiting for Spygon for comment I Think the legion has the most trolls in it
True Story Bro
Hmmm perhaps based on the numbers "Legion is not ESO" but "ESO is Legion"?
😮
This comment would of been better with the Keanu Meme used
:/
In all seriousness...... ESO and Legion are associated and this can only of been expected when it transformed from 'ESO Legion' into 'Legion' and retained the bulk of its membership in the process.
In the short term this is going to remain the perception and even had 'Legion' tried to make it appear they were clearer by changing the name, wiping and rebooting or insisting on being truly apolitical the prior associations of the MU leaders and the troopers would of resulted in the same effect.
Only in the long-term when Legions membership base and diversity of captains changes (as is beginning to happen now) will they and ESO be free or such charges.
So going on current trends..............by summer this won't be an issue.
@Carlini
You are half right. You asked me why I left/was leaving: the constant “Join New Era” and “Vote for us” shouts, were annoying but I had joined back when they were Bulldogs and they are (usually) nice guys.
I could have been getting more supplies in Legion for months before I left, but when BA dropped them and further incentivised NE membership, I felt overly pressured (rather than just badgered) into having to join NE in order to keep up my value to the country.
@DD
I have already explained about ESO's congress makeup.
Just because something was founded by ESO doesn't mean it is still controlled by ESO. British Rail used to control the railways, but after privatization people still referred to the different franchises as BR collectively, even though they were independent and had different (ever changing) names.
Legion had been becoming increasingly seperate from ESO, even before the split. Due to it being the place for the more military-minded ESOers but an "add-on" for the politicos It had an independant community and identity (roman) which it has carried over.
You have kind of disproved your point with the avatars. If Legion was trying to recruit people into ESO they would have ESO avatars, like BA members have NE avatars.
Avatars are used to identify Legion soldiers on the battlefield & as I told you before 65% of ESO are also Legion members, so a lot of ESO members will have Legion avatars, but the same is true for UKRP & GBDP as well.
As far back as V1 military avatars have been used. From the Navy (naby not RN) through (post) Triforce, all had their own avatar for their members. These all filled almost the entire active roster of all parties; things are different now with the emergence of Party MUs.
Who else is going to be able to tell you about Legion? Would you ask an Eskimo about Amazon tribal life? James Scarlet (NE) GameChanger (1V) and Asid250 (WRP) are all telling you Legion is apolitical. Ask the other 8 NE Legion members if they have ever been told to join or vote for a party BY Legion.
I've been in Legion for a while now, but have been in TUP since I rejoined the game. I don't recall my decision making at the time, but I've felt no reason to think about leaving them.
I've never had any messages from other Legion people wanting me to move political parties, and messages in the Legion feed about political parties are swiftly removed, or requested to be removed by other Legion people.
I don't have the time (or even really the inclination) to get involved in the deep political stuff that many do, but these are the facts as I see them in my own personal experience of being in Legion.
Legion is Legion, they don't offer better supplies to party
members, because they're unaffiliated to any party, if they
were I'd not have joined! As the old saying goes...
"Pero las llamas son peligrosas. Si usted ve una llama donde
hay gente nadando, usted gritar: ¡Cuidado! ¡Llamas!"
Horice (:
The MU obviously used to be ESO's own MU. It was never restricted to only ESO members or non ESO members were in no way hampered by their choice in political party. However the fact remains, it was ESO's.
It changed quite a way back now to The Legion. Technically it is owned by me, I have no political allegiance in the eUK at all. I am purely eUK. I have no access to political parties on the forums and if The Legion could afford for me to be in the eUK I would run for CP under my own banner. The way I see it, if Alfa wins and he decides to remove us as the Official MU, we will still be an MU for the eUK, I will just be given a greater responsibility to decide where I think it is best we fight for the eUK.
Of course we have more ESO members in The Legion than other parties. This is down to two facts. 1) It was originally ESO - Obviously self explanatory. 2) ESO currently (it seems soon to change) has no official MU. For that reason ESO members have to decide where to go. There are a handful of non political MUs but most are deemed attached to a party. An ESO member then has a choice of going in an MU where they will often be victimised for their party, lower supplies due to their party or one of the few non-political MUs. Of those non-political MUs are they likely to join their friends from their political party? Seems likely to me.
Other MUs have more of a choice, they have their own MU with their current friends in their political party. However from the amount of PMs I am getting recently (and over the past 2/3 months) it really seems like people are tiring of the politics in the military and just want to fight for their country without the nonsense.
I am going to ask for Muse to be update with political party stats so I can tell you accurately what %age we have as I am far too lazy to count everyone.
I believe the above points out to you Don why so many of ESOs congress are in The Legion.
lies are lies. eso>legion. legion>eso
all you done was drop eso from the name.
These tears are nourishing.
@Don Dapper maybe it has so many ESO members because it used to be ESO and they just stayed in the unit...
If The Legion was part of ESO I would have left when I joined GBDP but The Legion is not a political MU so I stayed. Problem Solved.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJr5l7j8VeU
This fire is out of control
I'm going to burn this city
Burn this city!
Seems like a bit of an overly defensive overreaction here. ESO almost had more votes than members, there must be an explaination, what is wrong for trying to understand this?
Legion would be an obvious conclusion to draw as many prominent ESO members are not in ESO. I have to wonder if and where they voted. I'm not flaming, nothing wrong with this at all. Good luck to you ESO legion!
And my point was that something being obvious isn't always right.
You could offer an alternate explaination rather than yet more denials.
ha ha ha ha ha ha so the politicised warbblers cannot envision anything else IT must be a deception why because that's all they can perceive. Its Too scary other wise eh. To challenging to ur way of doing things. Mud throwing and desperately hoping it sticks or maybe they just talk straight and appeal to people who don't just grab for freebies which arn't actually freebies. 😃 so funny
It's not mud flinging or accusing them of deception. I have no problem with lots of "party neutral" Legion members voting for ESO.
>"The way I see it, if Alfa wins and he decides to remove us as the Official MU...."
I've outlined the qualification criteria for offical/national status (for any and all MUs) wheter such MU's opt in or out isn't my decision as I don't control or commande any eUK MU, The decision is in the hands of Legion, Liberty, RN, Dentists, Sentinels, etc... etc..
"You could offer an alternate explaination rather than yet more denials."
Proving you didn't read the article
I would like to invite Goku or Don into my regiment for a week then you both might know what the hell your talking about also you might learn something about how MUs work
What would we think, in real life, if a political party claimed 97% turnout of it's supporters? Even Putin can't manage that. It's closer to Gaddafi/Kim Jong Un/Saddam Hussein levels. It could just be that the party boasts 100% activity levels amongst it's membership and that they all voted, due to incredible organisation... Could be...
"Any MU that has been linked to a party will never be seen as neutral"
Unfortunately I think this is true. This stigma will stick around until the membership and leadership base gets diluted with more diverse members. Perhaps a fresh start would have been better for reputation sake, if nothing else.
The Legion isn't political, and Carlini's post answered all questions.
P.S.I have never liked NE, now you are slanderers against #1 eUK MU.
The Legion is heavily political the same way that a dwarf is tall.
I guess the saying is correct for some people
If you cant beat the best then try and dragged them down to your lvl
I am Legion+UKRP, Legion never tried to change that, if I did change party I'd go to ESO, because they have significantly less whiners than New Era & have a friendlier community.
Legion give supplies based on merit (Medals/Rank Up/Level Up), not based on political affiliation, they don't purchase or persuade people in any way other than where to fight for the eUK.
@ "Any MU that has been linked to a party will never be seen as neutral"
Doesn't make it right, and is hardly an excuse.
@ Douglas Mckeever
Whilst ESO has seen and fostered a dramatic rise in activity recently, the only thing stopping any party with >10 members getting >90% is padding.
@ Novarefuge
A dwarf is tall to a hobbit.
Hey you NE, I'm already ESO now.You can now add several % to ESO percentage in "The Legion" and shout louder.