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How do you see this? Without the forum, there is no place to debate. Which means everyone makes decisions on his own, which means politics will be gone from the game. Your not trying to look for solutions, but are banning politics from a political game. If you want to get rid off the forum, there should be an alternative.

I think the forum is a bad place, but the alternatives are far worse. Ingame messages between congress members will exclude everyone who is intersted in politics from politics, which will further decrease the activity of important players in our country.

The democracy is dead and is a utopia. The people elected aren't active enough to participate in politics. If you aren't visiting the forum to change things, then you aren't a good politician. Congress isn't representative for the population, it is nowadays just a group of people deciding for the others. It is in fact just an aristocracy. But with some democratic elements. The CP and government will always be democratically chosen, and the elite who rule the country, is open for everyone to join and to be part of. So if you want to change something, you can make your voice heard. It is even possible to contact the elite and ask them to represent you, or the other way around.

I think it is best to think positively about our system we practically have. And it will be better to change the laws and our actions to this idea. Instead of blaming someone or something, looking at the good things and try to improve the bad things.

Saying something is bad without solutions doesn't help us getting anywhere.

How many people visiting the forum?

Everyone who wants to participate in leading and trying to improve things. And it's open for everyone to join. You don't need to be CM to discuss things. It doesn't matter how much exactly are on the forum. I don't know where to see the numbers, if that is possible at all. Anyway, right now at this very moment there are 15 people on the forum.

Everything you need is here, voting, politics, wars. Why we must voting on forum than vote in game? Many members of Congress are not interested in the forum, but want to join the game and vote, and they cant because of people who brings decisions on forum. We have a lot of semi active players in the game and they are losing interests in game because of that.

Right now we vote on the forum because of the dictatorship which protects our country from foreign PTO's and rogue CMs. But that's just voting, there is no discussion area for the argumentation behind the votes.

I don't think semi active players are the key to help our country. They certainly are in the military module, but in the political module they are maybe even something negative. Voting without thinking is one of the big disadvantages of a democracy. It's a good thing people have to be more than semi active to lead the country.

But there has to be a change of course to the forum. It is clear that it doesn't work and needs improvements. A revision of the law to make the forum serving the game instead of the other way around. And involving the semi-active people who only want to be ingame more in the discussions there are in congress.

What's your obsession with a dead forum SpirTus?

It's not an obsession, it's just a necessary evil. It exists, we have to use it because there aren't any other viable options. Just make the best out of it.

Let's say it is worse than ever right now (which it isn't imo), than it can only become better if we all work together. Only united we can dispel the evil from the corrupted forum! 😛

We can't work together because the admins of that forum abuse of their authority deleting and closing comments/topics when they aren't agree.

You don't need a forum to work together.

Exactly. That's why the forum is useless!

The forum is needed for making the final decisions, and for public discussion. You can work together without a forum with certain people, but than noone will know about what's happening. That's why we need an open discussion area.

You need the forum for debates.
You need the forum as a place to hold our rules (laws)
In times of wipe/dictatorship you need it for 99% of the votes.
You need it to hold referenda.

And the CP can't just say we will abolish the dictatorship. But if people want to donate money they could always do it to the state.

You are one of the person who abuse of your commands in that DEAD forum, because let's be honest its dead

What commands? I'm just a cm.

You deleted our commentsin in the forums with the excuse we were spamming when it was a lie, and this happened when we were defending us against the ubuse by odan

At the moment we don't need the forum for anything at all.

The silly laws are pointless.
Debate can be done in game.
The dictatorship will be removed next month
And referenda as you call it has always been done in game not on the stupid forum.

Laws aren't pointless they are there for very good reasons, to keep treasury save, to prevent PTO's something we defiantly be vulnerable for with out dictator.
Where ingame can debates be done ?
In party chat? cause that would mean only 1 party can rule.
Or you mean in the chat of the MU? All tough that be a bit of a issue, seeing kinda ingame most of us soldiers kinda have the habit of you know... keeping politics at the door.
Or you mean on articles, which will make things really messy and hard to keep track of anything, plus anyone from any country can read in on that.


But best part of what you wrote:

"The dictatorship will be removed next month"
How how democratic of you guys, you already decided this with out anyone getting a say... Oh right i forgot you speak for all the people, even if this people might disagree or hell be completely unaware of you doing so...
Why not just say "its God's will" trumps peoples voice doesn't it, but probably will make you sound like a lunatic so i guess "voice of the people" just more useful politically speaking.

And to follow that sentence up with referendum, something you guys didn't hold before deciding that Dictator will be removed next month. How clear can you be that you don't give a damn about what people in the game want, you just want what you want and project it on what everyone wants to justify your own selfish actions.
If you weren't selfish and you where for real you would first hold a referendum, before deciding when to remove dictator, or you know be clear in the elections with the plans about removal of all this key things. And than you dare to attack me on not being a "fair" person, you totally lost it.

You are miss informed, we do not need the forum to keep our pointless treasury safe or to prevent a PTO. That is just made up bullshit. If you want to be in E-Republic Netherlands, anybody can be within minutes. All you do is create a new profile in E-NL. That is how Lord Jale did it, that is how South Africa was PTo'ed, the forum does not protect us against it.

As for keeping the treasury safe well that is really easy, we give it all to you for safekeeping. Nobody can touch funds on an individual level. Problem solved.

Well, we need a forum, just not the one we currently have due to the players in charge there as admins and such. As its unlikely they will give up the powers we would need a new forum and new admins along with it. But perhaps; If congress starts being active and working together they could at least revoke some rights and powers from certain players. They could even fix the laws...

To extend it a bit; We need laws as well. Just not the ones we currently have as they are outdated and block the game-play itself or force the game/eNL in directions not beneficial for our players or eNL. Especially in cases where some law keeper acts the way we've experienced a few times in stead of having the capacity (combined with congress) to quickly adapt if new mechanics come in play due to which the law is counter productive.

We could do with some basic laws I think and a few guiding principles.

Every cm can propose new laws. And improvements. Also I don't understand the hate against admins. As far as I know none of them have ever misused their powers.

Yup they can. And several tried. Most know the results of that attempts so no need to elaborate on that naive suggestion of yours.

Apparently I, among others, know more than you do 😉

Funny by the way; Your almost always invisible, do nothing in the game apart from training and suddenly you wake up and reply to articles/comments. Afraid of certain changes?

If you can't get enough support that probably means not enough people support or understand it.

Well perhaps give me some examples? Otherwise I'll have to say it's bullshit.

I train/work indeed. And besides that do politics. I'm not interested in spending real money into the game so probably will never be able to be a real fighter.

Oh well; This response shows you're either naive/unknowing or one off the puppets. No use to even try discussing it in both cases.

You don't need RL money to fight. Sure it helps and you could do more in that case but still, given your age, you should have been able to have way better stats. But you choose to be a forum politician for some reason in stead of playing the game and therefore lack the connection you need to be able to represent the players that play the game itself.

I am playing the game, and im also active on the forum when ever i want to have a voice in something. And law and behold i have a voice on the forum. New admins can also be elected on this forum far as i know. Congress members have the power to replace current once, and same goes for laws they can easily be replaced. just make a good new law to replace a old one with, but what i have noticed that actually rarely happens and even less so by people that always scream laws are unfair and should be renewed. To me it seems the side that is now screaming gone with forum gone with laws are a bunch that will expect that everything than is solevd cause aside from you i havent seen the otehrs suggest a new forum, or the idea of new laws, what i have seen is NoTie now also say and gone with dictator.

So no Forum No Laws and No dictator, you play long enough to know that will be a PTO in 3 2 1...

So you are unwilling to respond to questions I have. Yes I might have been a better fighter but I didn't play the game for playing the game for some time I'm willing to admit that. But some time ago I decided to do just that and focus on something I actually could make a difference and that was politics.

I think it's amusing you want democracy and you want to remove the forum and that will bring less democracy basically

Yes the current state of the forum is unacceptable and I doubt it can even be salvaged at this point. And the Dictatorship indeed needs to go. It was once a helpful tool to protect us, but by now it only a way to hijack the game by meta-rules and cronies. Only problem being the very high cost. I have over the last week repeatedly suggested ways to do this, but they have all been ignored so far.

And yes that seems strange considering I AM the Dictator, but I don't carry this post with much pride. The Dictatorship has no mandate in-game (unless one is found), except the referendum we had a long time ago in different circumstances. At this point the Dictatorship is only removing the mandate of institutions that are actually voted on, like the CP and Congress.

Can you point me at those suggestions? I haven't seen anything constructive.

You hijacked the country. nobody else did.

Our democracy would collapse if there wasn't a meaningful way to communicate among congress members.

Out of all people Shtula, I expected from you to carefully think things through. Instead of making such rash proposals.

Indeed the forum is not a meaningful way to communicate that is why we are getting rid of it.

It is the only means we have, so getting rid of it now is just dumb.

Anyone is free to suggest new laws, and alter current onces. It aint like it toke years to set up what we have now. But all i hear from ths side that says going with unfair Forum, gone with unfair laws.

I dont hear any alternatives to either forum or the laws.And now also gone with Dictator. So no rules no way of communication and no way to prevent a PTO or a way to protect our treasury. You guys sound liek a bunch of butthurt little kids whit anger and no plan.

And sure its all Odan, cause that is how it went on the forum, everyone loved the idea of NoTie breaking all the rules... Oh wait no it was the majority that was against... Right gone with the forum cause it is undemocratic, you guys have the biggest party yet you cant get your people to back you up on the forum so now you few are crying all i got to say is grow up.

Yep let me see, 8 people out of 34 was against it. Real big majority.

Well i just had a quick look at the forum, and man do your numbers smell kinda like they got freshly pulled out of your....

Funny that when there was a larger outcome I wasn't ''impeached''. I wonder who is twisting numbers here 😛

seeing the number of people that changed their vote from no and neutral to yes, even if the same amount of people voted you would have been removed from office with this vote.

And if you didn't keep censoring and moderating votes and force Congress that way because they're tired of it and can only go your way, we wouldn't be in this situation to start with.

the only votes i moderated are once that where illegal. and if i was forcing congress in a direction would i have allowed a motion against my position as CoC?

I wasn't talking about any vote, why are the arguments i keep getting from you guys either off topic or clearly incorrect. I haven't said any thing about your impeachment, or vote there off.

But currently at the forum there aren't 42 people active hell not even 30 people are active on the forum, so how can 34 on the forum be infavor of what was happening

It's just a matter of mobilizing the CMs to vote in the current system. I&W is able to do this better than ReL or GPN. Which is maybe influenced by the removal of congress rights for CMs who are inactive (who this is, I don't know, because I don't have access to the private section of congress).

Analyzing the MoNC against Tonie's double role. There were 8 votes in favor, 2 against.
3 votes (out of 😎 in favor from DemNL (Willem, djirtsdew, Shawty)
2 votes (out of 9), 1 in favor, 1 against from GPN (Gwom, Leiden)
3 votes (out of 5), 2 in favor, 1 against from I&W (odan, blackpatje, Auggustus)
2 votes (out of 5) in favor from VN (Trannsvaal, AI)
0 votes (out of 12) from ReL.

There were 24 CMs who didn't vote. Half of them are ReL CMs. The best thing to do in the current system is to mobilize those CMs in congress.

Or change the system.

Everything you do is a big fail odan!!! Just admit you are hungry of power and even when u got the opportunity you were the worst CP ever.

Je hebt helemaal gelijk! You are completely right!

wel stremmen in game (nu pas 11 GP!) maar NIET op het forum!

Ne daj se Branimire 😉