Bhane v Seanan about OJ

Day 2,297, 07:16 • Published in Ireland Ireland • by Releasethe Krakken

1.Bhane I would take the same stance on OJ as we do on SAWC, and not be allow him back in to the country.

OJ never returned the hundreds of gold, and thousands of cc he stole, after liquidating the state companies in our orgs and draining the bank, so many years ago. The theft was reimbursed by the ICA... not him. He was happy to keep his stolen goods that bankrupted our nation, and screw-all to the Irish people. OJ is is still a remorseless thief, and does not play for the Irish community, he plays for himself. The ICA as a group may be forgiven by the community for that theft, because they paid it back. But, there has been no penance from the player that actually committed the act, and OJ certainly is not rehabilitated.

Last year, in a reply to one of my comments reminding him of his behavior he mocked anyone who plays "for the community" like me. He said that given the same opportunity, he would do it again, just to spite people who do not embrace his selfish "for the lulz" playstyle. OJ is a blight on the community, and if we allow him back into the country, we will live to regret it. He is an unrepentant thief, and liar, and has never shown any desire to change those traits.

He is a hateful abusive troll on par with Viktor's harassment. He is presence that will poison the water, and encourage a bad end for our nation.

You claim "he never kept anything from the companies he melted"

2. Bhane I have never seen any evidence to support your statement. In fact, this is the fist time anyone has said that to me. Even OJ has not denied the theft, or corruption, or his enjoyment spending his ill-gotten gains on himself, while all of eIreland whinged. He revels in the misery he can cause being a thorn in the side of people who act for the altruistic greater good of the nation. I have never seen him pretend to claim he gave the money back to the bank, let alone any sort of transfer pics.

If he doesn't have any of the money, I completely believe you. But, that would be because he spent it on himself and his mates, ages ago... not because he might have given anything back to eIreland.

His RL citizenship is a complete non-factor in granting him citizenship. I am basing my "no" vote on his action, and behavior, and proven reputation for being a scoundrel. Things like race, and gender, and nationality do not govern a person's actions, and should not be used as factors to grant citizenship.

RL citizenship is not a reason to make him immune to being accountable for his actions.
3 Bhane Don't pretend that what he did was anything magnanimous. We all know it was a petty act meant to spite the country that was impeaching him. That is the heart of the robbery, and the core of his character. He is out for himself, and has no concern about the collateral damage his actions may have on the citizens of eIreland. In fact, he finds great enjoyment out of making the game experience worse for other eIrish. If he has the opportunity for an action that might undo a large cooperative effort to improve the nation, then he revels all the more for hindering so many of our population.

OJ finds enjoyment in this game by causing the misery of others... particularly the misery of most of eIreland.
THAT is why I vote "no." THAT is why he should never be allowed back into the country.
4 Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
From the other dail thread;
"Daniel.Plainview to Artaxerxes Pavonis and 28 more people | 3 minutes ago
Stealing, no matter the circumstances, is still stealing... it shows a side that I don't think is very flattering to the character."

Daniel x2
"stealing is stealing"

It is never a justified reaction, even to an impeachment. That is simply bankrupting the country out of spite for the citizens you don't like. THAT shows the character of OJ.

Most important in all of it, is his complete lack of remorse.
He is not sorry for bankrupting the country, and it is a behavior he would repeat given the same situation. He is not just a scoundrel... he is a unrepentant scoundrel. He does not want to redeem himself, he enjoys being a villain. THAT is why we should not give him the opportunity to be a villain in eIreland. I'm happy to let him continue to be a villain in the eUK.
5. Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
And how many times have you wished for a way to deport RtK or Vik to another country, MUFC?

The only way to exile someone is to get them to voluntarily gain citizenship elsewhere. Now OJ has done that. A successful "deportation" punishment is possible if we simply do not allow him back in the country. I am confident that if we allow him back in, the country will eventually regret it.
6. Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
To build on Don's comment.

The immigration council is here to screen and eliminate threats - does the individual represent a threat to national security? If the IC is unable to perform the neutral function of determining a threat, then its unfit for purpose and a Minister or Don can step in to approve the applicant's pass.

The IC is not here as a tool for social engineering, Bhane or Winston. Breaching the impeccable green pass criteria is breaching the confidence in its decisions, and you are not going to change the rules of game just as this individual seems to profusely piss you off by continuing to exist. Your calls for 'community' are calls for preference - I reject your imposed reality.

Character profile:
+Past event of robbery to fund stake in a political war.
+'Resolved' after repayment by individual's organization and public apology.
+ Key-stake holder in Irish military organization
+ Two clicking for vast majority of time afterwards
+ Sarcastic Irish rogue.
+ Scammed an ally MoD.
+ Accepted reprimanded and agreed to target only enemy suppliers (that's on my suggestion, girls)
+ Joined bad company in moving to the UK
+ On interview "to retain some bonuses and to keep some ill company"
+ Continued as a member in an Irish MU
+ NOT on my list of dissident Irishmen who fought against Ireland
+ Two clicking again
+ Wealthy Irish Commune Holder

Hes an ass but hes not a threat. That's blatantly obvious (TO THE POINT, that 'threat level' isn't even being discussed) and not sure why its being given so much limelight. We are all aware of the relationship he has with some members here, but they will just have to shallow their spite, as no one else is going to justify a pissing contest.

If we want to discuss immigration and national threat security threats. Seeing if its a consensus that accepting Chewie's citizenship could incite war with the UK --- or should we be more worried about the Serbian mastermind PTOer we let in?
7Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
Seanan, "to the point" the threat level is what I have been discussing

He has been a scoundrel who plays for himself, with no concern for damage done to eIreland. In fact he rather enjoys it when his actions damage eIreland because it gives him the lulz he plays for. That IS a threat.

The Serbian PTOr snuck past the ImmComm, before anyone in the committee thread knew who he was. Luckily, he has moved on.
Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
Let me get you a dictionary, Bhane.

-Threat
"a statement of an intention to inflict pain, injury, damage, or other hostile action on someone in retribution for something done or not done."

>intention

Does the individual have an intention?
No, the individual has showed no signs on intention to do anything much for the last year.

Was a past criminal event tied in exclusively to that individual holding a position of responsibility?
Yes.

Is the individual in a position, or able to obtain a position, to cause injury?
No, the individual lacks the ability to obtain a position of responsibility or perform a PTO.

"A scoundrel who plays for himself, with no concern for damage done to eIreland" is the flagship policy of many of our finest politicians!

I could bestow such a honour on you for your policy against communes.. a ridiculous notion - but which ironically is a main reason for the civil war which OJ used state funds to finance his stake in achieving his vision of a 'true' Ireland. History is written by the victor, Bhane, but your assignment of damage is subjective on what would have been 'our' position in that war. OJ damaged the State in a civil war, and the civil war damaged Ireland.

But this conservation is misleding:
If the Immigration Committee does not to want the liability of approving a controversial applicant despite having no credible reason to reject, then Government can do their job and rubber stamp the proposal.

Dail members under no obligation to follow the rubber stamp. If they don't want too on grounds OTHER than threat level, that is their choice but assessing threat is the function of the Immigration Committee when they are doing their job. Not finding a popular mandate, or social engineering.

Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
Raven,

A disliked individual has applied for citizenship and now the focus of the ImmComm is community health?

Please clarify exactly your definition of consistency.
-ImmComm founding focus was stated to solely focus on security threats because the Dail are voluntarily letting them govern a game mechanical function in their stake.

- I am not downplaying the role importance of the community, I am saying that it is not the function of the ImmComm.
It has never been the function of the ImmComm because its a political topic. And if we are bringing politics into ImmComm then it has failed to remove politics from our immigration controls which it was set up to do.

ImmComm is there as a safeguard to our national security. When it rubber stamps an applicant its to say:
"This individual holds no threat to National Secruity"

Its not a rubber stamp saying:
"This individual is rainbows and lollipops"

My argument is consistent in line with the stated purpose of the ImmComm. Your community health doctrine is not part of it, that is a wider issue.

If one of the Krakhead buggered off, and reapplied for citizenship, the response should be the same: "No Threat" by the ImmComm. Doesn't mean I have to use my pass, but it does mean there is no confusion on the threat of an individual to Ireland's security.
Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
"Is the individual in a position, or able to obtain a position, to cause injury?"
That is where we disagree, Seanan. I think the answer to this question is a resounding "yes." He can be a person of influence with a lot of oldfarts that are in positions of authority.

But as many others have pointed out eloquently, OJ is a destructive force on the community. I would not vote for Vik to come back to eIreland, and I will not vote for OJ. He is a threat, and will always be a threat. People stay in this game for the community, and OJ is a threat to that community, because he revels in unleashing his inner-bully/troll... just like Vik.

He is on par with Vik/CT/PP/RtK/etc... Unfortunately, him and PP are more dangerous than Vik because of the friendly ties within our existing power structure. That provides them an avenue for backroom shenanigans. Oj is obviously a threat to the well-being of eIreland, and he has shown ZERO desire to change that. When an opportunity arises in the future, he will make eIreland regret accepting his citizenship request.

Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
And let me just point out, Raven, you state:

"I unlike some feel the Immcomm should take measures to protect the community's well being"

Acknowledge you are requesting an additional function of the ImmComm? A purpose the ImmComm has not had before.

The ball is in your court for transaction against the standards, not mine. Mine standard is exactly the same standard before the ImmComm came across a difficult case and bottled it.

Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
Here is the crux of the matter, Bhane, I will spell it out.

>"Oj is obviously a threat to the well-being of eIreland"
>"well-being"

"well-being" is not security. "well-being" is happiness. You can be unhappy and secure.

If you do not want to accept OJ's applicant on "well-being" you're in every right to do so.

But don't dress it up as "security". Security is a game mech context - protection of Government and Dail functions from enemy influence.

ImmComm is there to access Security, not Wellbeing. Well being is up to the Dail members who ultimately hold the strings.

Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
ImmComm is what it was set up to be - an analysis of threat to "Security". If we want to add "Wellbeing" to that list, then that's the debate but its bloody awful idea as it confuses "Security" and "Wellbeing" as a single concept.

They are not a single concept.

We are not 'abided' to let him through if he passes a security check.. *this was my point*. He may be 'secure', but that doesn't necessarily mean we want him. For you, you'd not accept his applicant on "Wellbeing" grounds - even if he had cleared on "Security" grounds.

The terminology used is perhaps causing a breakdown in communication: "Security" is our level of protection against enemy influence on our Dail and Government functions (mech and intelligence). "Wellbeing" is happiness/community health, all that jazz.

Important to make the distinction as some more than often confuse their preferences as synonymous with the nation's preferences - and that is more concerning to me.

Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
SAWC will never be allowed into the bank orgs again, does that mean we should roll out the welcome mat for him?

Seanan, I will not join your argument that players like that should be welcomed into the country. They ARE a threat to security.
Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
I thought we were leaving it to ImmComm... but ImmComm wanted to get dail input on this one. As far as I can tell, the final decision is still with the committee.

Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
Just to bat down, Bhane, who is so focused on being a spot faced brat in a feeble attempt to put words in my mouth..:

"No Threat" DOES NOT MEAN "Welcome".
It literally means "No Threat".
I.e. "No Threat" means CAN NOT influence Government or Dail actions in assistance to Irish ENEMIES.

Accepting that player holds "No Threat" to "Security" (i.e. the ability to influence Government or Dail actions in assistance to Irish enemies) is NOT accepting that they are suitable for citizenship. Only that they hold no threat to "Security".


@Raven - Gotcha, understood. Acceptable position. I'd say the difference between your idea of "Security"/"Wellbeing" and mine is that my concept of "Security" has any detrimental element originating as an "enemy of Ireland" (i.e. an Irishman pursuing an Irish goal doesn't fit as security in my books - like even Krakhead wouldn't fit into that definition, I'd still class his detrimental effect on Ireland as a domestic issue, one to be addressed by the community.. rather than the Army, a honour reserved for enemies).

Your concept on "wellbeing" to me is a domestic issue. Bhane tossing and turning like a politician might annoy me, but I'd count it as a domestic issue rather than linking it to downgrading my welling and in turn a potential security risk. Although I see these effect one and other, don't see them as completely exchangeable that a 3-man committee could truly capture the many consensuses of the nation in the way they independently function.

Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
I.e. "No Threat" means CAN NOT influence Government or Dail actions in assistance to Irish ENEMIES.

Well since OJ CAN influence government officials and dail actions, and is an Irish ENEMY, then by your logic he is the definition of a threat.
Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
It's been exciting, Fritz 🙂 ... in both threads
I'm not attacking anyone's "yes" vote, yet Ibhoy, and Seanan still insist on attacking my "no" vote.

I understand that they like OJ, and want to defend him, and have every right to vote yes. I don't know why they can't accept that I feel a player should be held accountable for his actions and behavior, and that my "no" vote is valid.

Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
I am not voting yes, you arrogant prick - I reject your politicking, I am analyzing a case. But this isn't a vote, I don't care whether you accept OJ or not. This discussion on the role of the ImmComm - my point has been clear: ImmComm is here to protect our security, not our wellbeing.

Our wellbeing is in the hands of the community and by extension, the Dail.
"Wellbeing" is not synonymous with "Security".

But on your butchered attempt on my analysis - 1) Correct, has the ability to bribe as do you. 2) Irish Domestic Objectives is NOT a nationwide objective; Krakhead's attacking "Orcs" is an Irish objective because it carried out by a player who acting "in their mind" in Irish interests. 3) And that is the difference between acting for an objective which is not "in their mind" in pursuit of Irish interests, and in fact, in pursuit of another country's interest - A selfish Irish objective is still an Irish objective.

Those arguments do not apply to OJ as much as they do not apply to Krakhead or Viktor. If they attack members of the community in pursuit of their vision of "Ireland", it does not make them enemies of Ireland. It does effect "wellbeing", but that's my point, completely different topic.


So No, you pretentious ass, I am not voting either way as there is no vote here. You're free to act as inviduals, ImmComm simply there to assess threat level in the context of vulnerability to PTOs and spies.
Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
And by god, Bhane.

If they can influence Irish government and Dail actions doesn't make them an enemy.
I can influence Irish government and Dail actions.. doesn't make me an enemy.


To be a threat to National security - they have to first BE an enemy to Ireland, and then have the ability to influence Irish government and Dail actions.

Super simple stuff.
You can vote no, but don't push your agenda onto ImmComm - they are there to assess actual security, not your bogus notion of security.

Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
Fine... you pass on voting.

I'm still voting "no" because OJ is a villain to eIreland, and that's the plain truth. You can try to wash him with semantics as much as you want, but the very core of OJ as a player makes him a dangerous THREAT to eIreland.

Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
OJ personality makes him a political threat to pretentious tools like you. A threat to Ireland, however? Horse has already bolted.

Still NOT a vote, Bhane. ImmComm can pass his security check as hes not a functional threat in terms of PTOs or delivering information to enemies of Ireland (nor would he get the chance). Dail members can choose to ignore the rubber stamp, there is an obligation by most not to accept a rejected proposal, no obligation to accept an accepted proposal.

My only regret is not approving his pass so this irrelevant chat didn't take up so much time.

Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
He's not a political threat to me or anyone else.
He is a danger to eIreland's prosperity. Once eIreland gets anything positive going, OJ will enjoy nothing more than throwing a monkey wrench into the gears.

If your mega-commune idea is implemented, I'm sure he would happily find a nook of "the system" to entrench into (since you say he is a commune holder). Months down the road when he gets bored, then we'll have to learn a hard lesson for trusting him... again.

Even if your megacommune does not start, some opportunity to wreak havoc will present itself to him, if we allow him in. I'm truly shocked you defend the guy, knowing what he has done, and how he treats the people of eIreland.

Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
I defend a criteria of assessing a threat - the criteria which is being twisted by the likes of you because we have a situation where a disliked --two clicking-- individual wants Irish citizenship.

No,he doesn't represent a threat. He represents potential strife and arguments and generally pissing people off, often with sly sarcastic comments but I don't count that as a threat, I call it "life" and one day, you're going to have acknowledge the light doesn't shine outta your arse.

but lol at OJ offering his communes for a State Commune program. We've established that hes selfish. A system which removes an earning capacity by canceling out its use by the operator isn't attractive if you want to earn any dosh (and bugger off before you cry endlessly again, no running a commune doesn't make you money, you running at loss and commune not is not a commune fault, rather than you wanting to play big boss handing out wages you can't afford - bite me). The only commune I see him potentially opening is the one to the Irish MU hes been resident since e-birth or for a leftie political party.

I don't defend OJ, I'm against disregard for an objective assessment in immigration procedure - bringing politics into it is like a cancer of egos.

Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
We completely agree on that, Seanan. 🙂
"I'm against disregard for an objective assessment in immigration procedure - bringing politics into it is like a cancer of egos."

That is why I am basing my vote on his proven actions and proven behavior... not any political affiliation or beliefs.

Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
You fall flat on your ass for objectivity then, or you have no concept of time and space.

And your snipes need work, fatty.

Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
An objective evaluation of a neutral person will result in a neutral result. But OJ is not a neutral person, he is everything I have mentioned above. That means a decision about him will obviously fall in the negative. He is not the neutral entity you are trying to paint. My vote of "no" is an objective result, based on the players actions.

I do humbly apologize for not being humorous enough. I'll try to work on that, in the future.

Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
Obviously not.

He is a neutral entity in terms of security to mechanical functions and intelligence - his ability to effect the functionality of governance and intelligence is superficial - your portrayal of an enemy agent is a wishful illusion and based on your perceptions of player you deemed as "unremorseful", your objectivity was compromised when you relied on your own opinion of the individual - and ignored logical motivation pathways to determining future behaviour.

Hes acceptance would not effect the ability of Irish governments to function in Irish interests. Nor upturn political establishments. As the individual lacks the pull to position himself in a position of power.

Hes likely behaviour is to involve usual side snipes at individuals he dislikes, and a continuation of his role in an Irish MU - his activity a few years ago is not reflected in his activity today (comparison is weak, and a poor indicator of projected behaviour). Entering an environment aware of his past offenses, political motivation is limited by lack of options. Irish citizenship is likely just for the label and a chance to publish in Ireland.

Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 2 days ago
We agree to disagree, Seanan.

I will not ignore that he committed a great crime against eIreland, and paid no penance for it. I vote against welcoming his kind of poison into our nation. I disagree with your assessment that he will be content with just occasional, minor barbs.
Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | yesterday
@Bhane Nothing about ignoring it, but just because it happened doesn't make him a security threat. You're seeking to to win an argument by any means to have him rejected, but your grounds for rejection do not consist as a security threat.

Argue the actual case, not twist an objective assessment of current threat as a means of 'justice punishment'. You don't want him in for previous crimes, but that doesn't make a security threat, thats do with with your opinion that he has paid no penance.

Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | yesterday
My grounds assesses him as a CONSISTENT security risk.
I have argued the actual case.

OJ destroyed any credibility he had, when he bankrupted our nation.
Since then I have seen him make exactly ZERO efforts to atone for that crime. He has NOT regained any of the lost trust he might have had before the theft. He has shown no desire to change his ways, and WILL commit similar acts in the future.

He may never again be able to work on the scale he once did, because of that lost credibility. but, he can certainly enjoy small victories of screwing over the eIrish people that aren't in his circle of friends.

OJ IS a direct security threat to eireland... even if he's not a security threat to the bank, specifically. I'm not even 100% sure he's not a threat there. I'm sure if he put his mind to it, he could worm his way into our future financial structures, and exploit an opportunity. He has done it before (even after the robbery).

Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | yesterday
But have to further point out Bhane, my assessment holds some actual creditably given for the last two years - OJ has been spent the majority of his time as an Irishman and he has been content with occasional, minor barbs. There has been no major change in his activities or political upheavals in Ireland either.

Your "he will cause havoc given the chance" has nothing to support it. You point to the past robbery, but after that issue was resolved, his activities moved onto setting our military infrastructure and then onto two clicking as he became disinterested in the game.

That is how the situation has evolved. Your grounds for rejection if you insist they are "security" sit on pillars of sand. The actual reasons you give for rejection is further punishment for a past crime / social engineering - and no amount of wiggling will change that.

Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | yesterday
I recall him bragging about screwing YOUR subsidy system, Seanan. In one of his many times mocking my altruistic patriotism, he let slip how he scammed the system for personal profit. He bragged that he could make money better than me because he used his connections to sell his tanks to our government for twice the market value.

Market price right now is about 15 IEP. Wouldn't it be an exploit if OJ sold a bunch for 30 IEP, for government's national reserves? I think that qualifies as "harmful to eIreland." I guess it pays to have friends in the system... and it pays well.

Luckily, I believe the friends he had that helped him are no longer part of our subsidy system, since it streamlined. But you want a big expansion, Seanan. That will give ample opportunity to the kind of backroom scams OJ used to enjoy (at the expense of eIrish citizens).

Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | yesterday
.. at a loss for words, Bhane. Let me educate your vindictive ass.

The only time OJ has operated companies in the State's name was during the founding of the Army, which at time had no subsidy system - so no, he has not been part of the subsidy system. Get your facts straight.

As to him making more money than you.. yes, he does - because you're business model is involves paying more for resources than you have too and paying workers more than you can afford - by obtaining tanks cheaply and selling them on in bulk to people willing to pay a premium (when balkan fever season is about, anyone with a stock can make a killing from loose purses). Like every other bugger who knows how to make money.

I have 100% confidence your slanderous remark about Appleman (as thats who you are accusing) of buying overpriced tanks from OJ is false - AM is a ballbuster when it comes to State Finances, not in his character.

Unbeknown to you Bhane, there are deals which occur over IRC and on the black-market which see deals in WRM priced at 0.04 IEP per unit (0.02 difference between international). Tanks at 13 IEP and host of other "friend rates". You have individuals joining 10/10 nations for the bonuses, but technically loyal to another country - they ain't going to want to pay taxes but its damaging to their profit to work via export licences, so there is a blackmarket for people in high resource nations wanting to shift their produce.

OJ often boasts about his skill in game mech functions. So yes, whilst providing State Companies during the founding of the Army, he probably did continue to make money despite having no subsidy system. If that upsets you, if hes remark hurt your identify a business owner - that's too bad, but doesn't change the fact for the last two years he basically been a two clicker, fighting in an Irish MU, accumulating wealth through the blackmarket, with a couple of sarcastic comments and showed no sign of changing from that role.

Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | yesterday
I do not think for a moment Appleman was involved. I don't think you were either. I already said I think his cohorts are now out of the system, since Apple took nearly exclusive control of the finances. Do not put words in my mouth... especially when I explicitly said the opposite.

Even his avatar revels in his enjoyment of being a criminal in this game. He bankrupted eIreland, and celebrates Chew taking most of the treasury of eUK. http://oi59.tinypic.com/10fx1dj.jpg
He enjoys great thefts in this game... that is the kind of player he is. He enjoys selfish play, especially when it comes at the cost of causing another player pain. He will inflict damage to eIrish players to improve the "lulz" for himself. That is not the kind of player we should welcome with open arms.


The plain bottom line is that OJ is a villain... and PROUD of it.

Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | yesterday
P.S. "friend rates" are supposed to be discounts on the black market... not purposefully overpriced sales so OJ can receive the price of two tanks, but only give up one. That is the exact opposite of a discount friend rate, that is just embezzlement.
Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | yesterday
No, thats exactly what you are saying - because Appleman is the main finance man. Then you have Sweets, accusing him? We can go through all the MoFs who controlled state funds until we find the player you're too cowardly to accuse.

"That is not the kind of player we should welcome with open arms."
Then THATS why you won't accept his citizenship request - but don't bullshit it has to do with serious concern for security. A two-clicking rogue whos had opportunity with Irish citizenship to "reek havoc" for the last two years, but hasn't because there is no lasting motivation or profitable end result for him. Honestly in your reasoning is a big ask from you, yeah I get that, but your attempt to rape logical sequence and fear mongering does not amuse me.

But the hell is OJ the only one celebrating the UK's treasury getting nicked! A few of our esteemed members in the ImmComm even been vocal in their glee.. "rogue" is a character trait, a trait you dislike but not a trait which automatically incites a security threat. We elect rogues regularly.

A two clicking proud rogue who has not deviated from his usual routine of sly sarcastic comments, wealth accumulation via blackmarket, fighting in an Irish MU, or taking part in political systems for the majority of the last two years.. removing all personality traits and relationships the individual has, there is not a threat to security. Although certainly a threat to the wellbeing of the community for probably another 2 year until carebears stop crying over a failure to create the Kingdom of Earth.


P.S.S. Yeah "friend rates" are discounts - lowering prices. I just said you illiterate boy that OJ and other smart business owners BUY cheap from blackmarketers looking to shift goods quickly or from friends at "mate rates"... AND THEN sell onto those willing to pay a premium for a shit ton of tanks. Those willing to pay a premium often include those who need a huge stock of tanks very quickly.

Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | yesterday
I am flabbergasted, Seanan.
I must assume someone has logged into your account to argue such nonsense.

I can't think of anyone in this game I trust more than Sweet. Again, you are trying to put words in my mouth. I cannot comprehend why you defend such a major criminal against eIreland.

I have no problem with OJ making money. But, when the economic module was at it's lowest I had a problem with HOW he made his profit. Taxes are not paid on black market deals. If the treasury donates twice the value of his tanks, then half of that money is being misappropriated. That is the definition of embezzlement.

I look forward to the return of the real Seanan. This one has gone off the deep end.
Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | yesterday
No, I'm sticking to this thought process because grabbing you by the balls for once in one of your acid trips is necessary to show how utterly indoctrinated you are in some of your baseless arguments.

+You have accused a Minister of Finance within Irish history of using State Funds to pay extortionate prices to OJ.

That entails that the MoF paid market prices for black market material. The legitimate options to the MoF would have been pay market prices on the market, or tax-free prices on the blackmarket (cheaper than market prices due to lack of tax). The non-legitimate option is to pay the tax to the blackmarket dealer.

No, go on, Bhane. If you are going spout nonsense - which MoF do you accuse of engaging in that activity?

Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | yesterday
Bhane wrote:

"He bragged that he could make money better than me because he used his connections to sell his tanks to our government for twice the market value... wouldn't it be an exploit if OJ sold a bunch for 30 IEP, for government's national reserves? I think that qualifies as 'harmful to eIreland' I guess it pays to have friends in the system... and it pays well."


The MoF holds the keys to the treasury. There have been a few MoF who could carry out such a deal. Are you going to elobrate on which you accuse of engaging in such an activity? or you just talking out of your arse?

Hell for someone who doesn't trust OJ, you seem to have taken his word with merit. Convenient!

Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | yesterday
I don't think any MoF did it.
I think it would have been done by one of the cogs in the wheels of the finance department.

Most likely he used connections during times when the supply lines got moving to get his tanks bought. Maybe someone was given a fund in case more tanks were needed in an overnight campaign while MoF was asleep. The allowance allocated to the purchaser could easily be sent to OJ, and half the value of tanks went into the supply lines. The missing value of tanks just gets lost as overage in the shuffle of handing out supplies.
Or maybe some other similar scheme, I really can't know.

As you stated before, I am definitely not privy to the "backroom" deals made by eIreland's financial system. I never have been, and I very much doubt I would be welcome to be part of it, since I am not in any clique. I'm sure a few oldfarts would not want me seeing over their shoulders. Because I am an outsider, I will never know the particular route OJ took to skim the government moneys he bragged about.


I still cannot begin to comprehend why you want eIreland to ignore the fact that OJ is the kind of player that enjoys committing one of the most heinous crimes a player can commit against a country. He bankrupted eIreland, and that is the the defining moment of who OJ is. That is why the ImmComm exists... to stop players like that from getting into the country.

Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | yesterday
Don't try to worm out of it - I have no preference on OJ's citizenship, ImmComm is there to assess security threats, that doesn't include community wellbeing, end of.

"One of the cogs"
Way too be totally vague.

"I really can't know."
So talking out of your ass?

I'll dig out Army supply records if you want. Our systems in the past involved keeping Stock in orgs for over night campaigns (bought and carried out by the MoF). There has been a system of currency for suppliers to buy Weapons on the market from the MoF during the early days, hence all transactions would be cash neutral (i.e. if you used the cash to buy from anyone other than the MoF, you'd notice as the MoD accounts would run out of money quicker than tax should dwindle it due to the MoF's account not reimbursing it - all recorded somewhere aswell) - that particular system was operated by myself and Nephwork. And Nephwork was worth more than the players in this thread.

I came from the IDF and its widespread corruption. Record keeping and systems were designed with that in mind - there was no opportunity for "clogs" to engage in such activity without the MoF knowing about it.

You are taking the word of a player you distrust and who proudly seeks to get under your skin - its hypocrisy on your part. You'd eat any old crap if you thought it was supported your twisted view on State Finance.

You can not verify his brags, you insist they "might" have happened but those you supposedly trust to look after finance security are the only ones who could have sanctioned such a deal. You don't know, but its a convenient story.

You are taking faith in OJ that his story is true and it isn't a rouse to wind you up. Yet you don't trust him.. but you also don't know the system.. but you trust the MoFs.. so instead of deciding "probably not true then" you go for ".. well must be some element I'm not aware of!". And the Book of Morons came to be.

How about this Bhane?
OJ never skimmed the gov.


Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | yesterday
How about this Seanan?
OJ DEFINITELY bankrupted eIreland with no regrets.

There really is no need for anything else.
Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | yesterday
Oh Bhane, I have moved onto something much more worthwhile, not letting you get away until we address a much more interesting topic - rocking your hypocritical world.

Answer.
Do you acknowledge you are taking faith in OJ's story that he skimmed the government despite not trusting him?

Do you acknowledge you taking the story as true despite trusting the MoF who without a doubt would have been aware of it?

Do you acknowledge you are unaware of the system but have opted to believe some unknown element was involved in the story you choice to believe from OJ?

After addressing your view, expressing how the only way OJ could have skimmed government would have been with the content of the MoF, do you acknowledge that your original thesis was incorrect? Or will you change your view on the integrity of the MoFs?

That last question is the clincher.
OJ's bank robbery is known. Exposing your contradicting slander is new.
Releasethe Krakken to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | yesterday
[Motion] we ask the honorable members Bhane and seanan to stop spamming this thread.

Don Croata to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | yesterday
Shut up RTK

Releasethe Krakken to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | yesterday
[Motion] Speaker can you bring charges against the honorable member Don Croata for asking a member to shut up.

FRITZHILL to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 19 hours ago
RTK SHUT THE FUCK UP

Releasethe Krakken to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 18 hours ago
Diversion is not successful Bhane and seanan we are on your tracks. fritzhill shut the gel up.

Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 17 hours ago
Good work Seanan!
We all have acknowledged the facts about OJ, even if we come to different conclusions.

1) OJ bankrupted eIreland
2) OJ got away with it (other people paid the penance for that crime)
3) OJ is an abusive player who enjoys the misery of others (especially other eIrish).
4) OJ has influential friends in the upper levels of eireland's social structure (giving him access to those backroom deals on IRC).
5) OJ's avatar is very apt: http://oi59.tinypic.com/10fx1dj.jpg

I believe these facts prove OJ is the kind of player that ImmComm should keep out. Ibhoy and Seanan disagree with me, and that's okay.

Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 17 hours ago
And again, Bhane, you're avoiding answers my questions about your slander on the integrity of the Minister of Finance - and instead changing the topic back to OJ's immigration bid which I've already disregarded.

I'd say you lack the balls to admit your remark on the integrity of the MoF was incorrect, but when you've had them ripped off, no bloody wonder. Coward.

Bhane to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 17 hours ago
I accept your statement that OJ lied to me.

I would certainly not put it past him to lie to an eIrishman just to push their buttons. In fact that just adds to the evidence that he revels in the misery of eIrish patriots. Everything that defines OJ as a player makes him a horrible addition to the eIreland community.

Seanan to ian arbuckle and 27 more people | 17 hours ago
Cheers for the acknowledge. For once, you don't make me want to strangle you to death in shallow water.