The Impudence of eCanadians
Day 1,946, 16:51
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Published in Canada 
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by
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by Auk Rest
~~~BREAKING NEWS: http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/help-liberate-canada-2231928/1/20 ~~~
----Original Article----
Disappointed. I am disappointed with eCanada. News broke yesterday that Portugal had signed an "Iberian Pact" with theirs and our occupier Spain. After six months of near perpetual occupation and a struggle going back far longer than that, Portugal finally accepted peace with Spain.
Here in Canada there has been no end of players wanting to give grief to Portugal, including our own president. Grief that is in every way unwarranted, "why didn't they just fight on for eternity??" Because it is futile. Completely and utterly futile, something that the Portuguese recognized far too late.
I agree with critics in some regard about how Portugal essentially resigned its future diplomacy to Spain, forcing them now to align with TWO, but as far as I can see, most of the anger directed towards Portugal is due to the fact they made peace with Spain and the fact they signed a deal.
The prevailing theory in Canada nowadays is that we should fight Spain forever, because eventually, they will grow bored of us and we'll win a region back, or our new super powerful alliance (lol) will swoop in and save us. The last time we won Quebec, I gave the RW my all, spent my bazookas, EBs, WMDs, and we all put in a ton of effort and managed to secure ourselves Quebec. "Hurrah!" we all cheered, and we jeered at the Spanish offering us terms of surrender from before then. But then what happened of that? We were NE'd and wiped the very next day
It costs Spain NOTHING to occupy and control us. It cost me (and many of you) everything we had saved for months to see Quebec free, and it cost Spain nothing, their populace is so large they need only bring their pinky finger down on us and we are crushed.
We have no right to criticize Portugal for doing the inevitable, even if we don't agree with the terms of the treaty, it is wrong for us to turn our backs to them and insult them for doing what they had to do. I encourage eCanada to wake up before it is too late, I saw in a comment by a Portuguese player earlier today I will quote:
"What you must do is make a fair deal while you still have leverage, and don't let your nation become bankrupt before the negotiations."
As much as you might not like the terms they signed, it stands as a warning to us to start forming a contingency plan, to start thinking about our own future if we can't win against Spain. Realizing it now rather than later will keep us from becoming slaves.
The main argument I see of why we should keep fighting is that we need to keep our "pride" and "honor" and also that being wiped is actually fun since we have plenty of battles of our own to fight for RW medals and TP. This is wrong on so many levels. For one, being wiped is not fun, it is an annoying hindrance. Secondly, how selfish could we be that we demand we have our own true patriots medals to the detriment of others. I thought we were entering into a new era of eCanadian foreign policy and image on the world stage with Asgard. How can we help our allies in Asgard if we are perpetually wiped? Staying wiped for TP is selfish and wrong, it shouldn't then be a surprise our international standing is garbage, who want's to ally with such a selfish country?
crisfire countered me by saying this war was started with the intentions of being a noble and selfless ally, by attacking the UK and helping Norway. Well how did that work out? Norway lost anyway, and our bumbling fool of a president Rylde spat in the face of Spain and they changed their goals from blocking us from bothering the UK to one of total occupation.
So eCanadians, think twice before you spit in the faces of our Portuguese friends, because just maybe you can find the real sellouts who would bring this country into the mud in the mirror. But it isn't too late, all can still be changed and all can still be made right.
Maybe I am wrong, in that case, I would like to be wrong, because it means we will get our country back soon and unharmed, but the real question is
What if I'm right?
Cheers,
-Auk
----Original Article----
Disappointed. I am disappointed with eCanada. News broke yesterday that Portugal had signed an "Iberian Pact" with theirs and our occupier Spain. After six months of near perpetual occupation and a struggle going back far longer than that, Portugal finally accepted peace with Spain.
Here in Canada there has been no end of players wanting to give grief to Portugal, including our own president. Grief that is in every way unwarranted, "why didn't they just fight on for eternity??" Because it is futile. Completely and utterly futile, something that the Portuguese recognized far too late.
I agree with critics in some regard about how Portugal essentially resigned its future diplomacy to Spain, forcing them now to align with TWO, but as far as I can see, most of the anger directed towards Portugal is due to the fact they made peace with Spain and the fact they signed a deal.
The prevailing theory in Canada nowadays is that we should fight Spain forever, because eventually, they will grow bored of us and we'll win a region back, or our new super powerful alliance (lol) will swoop in and save us. The last time we won Quebec, I gave the RW my all, spent my bazookas, EBs, WMDs, and we all put in a ton of effort and managed to secure ourselves Quebec. "Hurrah!" we all cheered, and we jeered at the Spanish offering us terms of surrender from before then. But then what happened of that? We were NE'd and wiped the very next day
It costs Spain NOTHING to occupy and control us. It cost me (and many of you) everything we had saved for months to see Quebec free, and it cost Spain nothing, their populace is so large they need only bring their pinky finger down on us and we are crushed.
We have no right to criticize Portugal for doing the inevitable, even if we don't agree with the terms of the treaty, it is wrong for us to turn our backs to them and insult them for doing what they had to do. I encourage eCanada to wake up before it is too late, I saw in a comment by a Portuguese player earlier today I will quote:
"What you must do is make a fair deal while you still have leverage, and don't let your nation become bankrupt before the negotiations."
As much as you might not like the terms they signed, it stands as a warning to us to start forming a contingency plan, to start thinking about our own future if we can't win against Spain. Realizing it now rather than later will keep us from becoming slaves.
The main argument I see of why we should keep fighting is that we need to keep our "pride" and "honor" and also that being wiped is actually fun since we have plenty of battles of our own to fight for RW medals and TP. This is wrong on so many levels. For one, being wiped is not fun, it is an annoying hindrance. Secondly, how selfish could we be that we demand we have our own true patriots medals to the detriment of others. I thought we were entering into a new era of eCanadian foreign policy and image on the world stage with Asgard. How can we help our allies in Asgard if we are perpetually wiped? Staying wiped for TP is selfish and wrong, it shouldn't then be a surprise our international standing is garbage, who want's to ally with such a selfish country?
crisfire countered me by saying this war was started with the intentions of being a noble and selfless ally, by attacking the UK and helping Norway. Well how did that work out? Norway lost anyway, and our bumbling fool of a president Rylde spat in the face of Spain and they changed their goals from blocking us from bothering the UK to one of total occupation.
So eCanadians, think twice before you spit in the faces of our Portuguese friends, because just maybe you can find the real sellouts who would bring this country into the mud in the mirror. But it isn't too late, all can still be changed and all can still be made right.
Maybe I am wrong, in that case, I would like to be wrong, because it means we will get our country back soon and unharmed, but the real question is
What if I'm right?
Cheers,
-Auk
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Comments
hahahahahaah first
Some ugly Funky guy really, really wants us to surrender. Like boner hard.
If you're right, I will no longer be eCanadian.
Give me a few moments to come up with a an argument/agreement with what you have to say. ^__^
had* not have
Please vote and reshout if you agree with me
How can i downvote again?
Argue with words...
Why would you ask that anyways
I suggest your learn to think for yourself, thekottik, and not let others do your thinking for you
something sensible
How is making a deal, which secures us a territory, maybe two, with an impotent and broke Executive and Legislative branch (because of the ridiculous cost that eSpain demands for 'peace') any better than fighting continuing to fight eSpain? Give me honour and TP gold over eSpanish ransom any day, thanks.
Now, do I think we should poo poo all over other countries, especially long time friends? No. But surrender is a tough sell, especially at the going eSpanish rate. So fight on. Keep a dialog open with the Spanish, in the hopes that they have a change of heart (which is doubtful, bullies, bully), but never bend over, never give in. Only quitters, quit.
You don't get honour for being unable to win. Scarce TP Gold? That's not worth more than our lost revenue, immigrants and resource bonuses.
Anyone ever consider that ePortugal doesn't want to be part of the alliance that has failed them, allied with countries like eCanada that make fun of it for avoiding being a permanent colony?
But it hasn't avoiding being a permanent colony.
It still is, now its just official, and monetized.
We cease being Canadian if the Spanish relegate us to a couple of land locked provinces. We give up our independence if we allow them to dictate our foreign policy decisions. The ransom we must pay for 'peace' negates any resource bonus earned by a territory or two. And immigrants? Pish, no one immigrates to eCanada when we are non-wiped anyway.
I don't understand. ePortugal is not being dictated to, they're choosing their allies. You have a problem with that?
They were told who to sign MPP's with. How are they choosing their allies?
eSpain isn't voting for Portugal's MPP stack. eSpain isn't running their Presidency.
Portugal has chosen to be allied with TWO. They accepted the conditions of the treaty. They would not have agreed to the TWO MPP's if they were not willing to be allied with them.
Plus, the treaty is re-evaluated by the Portugese after every CP election. If they do not want to be allied with TWO, then they let the treaty expire and become enemies of Spain once more when they re-sign EDEN MPPS. Then they are open for attack, just like any enemy nation is.
They are not having foreign policy dictated to them. They have chosen to be allied with TWO. If they don't like their foreign policy, they can simply let the treaty lapse. Spain is not forcing it upon them.
"We cease being Canadian if the Spanish relegate us to a couple of land locked provinces."
Did the Germans cease being Germans when they accepted treaties from the Polish that limited what regions they have? Did the Dutch? Belarus?
No. It just another option that nations can choose to continue their existence.
May as well rename this pact the treaty of Versailles 2.0..
So what you're saying EPD is that they have a choice by having no (real) choice?
I guess you could say that.
Their choice is: Ally with TWO and get several regions back for no monthly charge (save a hefty deposit) OR Keep the status quo, ally with EDEN, and continue to be wiped.
It is a choice, but nothing changes if they refuse the treaty. It keeps the status quo. Spain has no reason to let go of their regions, otherwise.
If they valued their allies in EDEN more than their freedom, then they would have chosen the latter. However, seeing as EDEN gave up on fighting for Portugal's freedom and deemed it a lost cause, it shouldn't come as a surprise that they may not value EDEN countries as much as they used to.
Every alliance reaches that point I suppose... I suspect Portugal wanted to avoid a France situation but ended up with the same results.
You don't get honour from rolling over and dying either. What's your point?
So you think Portugal will just vote NO to all MPP's that they were told to sign?
They will just get wiped again and lose their 600k CC that is being held. Yeah...they totally have a choice in allies.
They can. What's your point?
Then they lose all the CC, and will remain perma-wiped.
What's your point?
Actually, if they let the treaty lapse and don't break it, they get all of their deposit money back. However, Spain would just wipe them again.
Letting it lapse is different than voting down all the MPP's they were told to sign.
Ah, but it has the same effect! Letting it lapse means that they would not renew their MPPs. They would choose to cease being allies with TWO and would choose to be allied with EDEN, once more.
Plus they get their 600k back.
So they do have a choice in allies. However, they would become an enemy of Spain once more, and be wiped.
Which means Poland is not likely to actually give any money back.
If you had 600k CC of an enemy, how willing would you be to let it go?
Well, Poland would be very likely to give the money back. They are actually quite trustworthy and have a great diplomatic department. Why else do you think they occupy so many nations with nary a struggle on most days? They don't want to set precedent of going back on agreements like that because nations wouldn't be willing to sign NAP's with them afterward.
I probably wouldn't trust the Spaniards to give it back, but I would trust the Polish.
Plus, they know that Portugal still won't win, even with that money.
Get ready to speak Spailish, everyone... It looks like they'll be here for a while..
I have read and completely understand the rationale behind your arguments, as well as Funky's.
However, this treaty seems more like a facade, rather than a liberation. We can all celebrate Portugal's liberation of regions, and the fact that they will have a congress, but to what extent?
One could talk up the merits of peace and stability, but we all know how fickle people are; boredom will set in and soon they want excitement. Furthermore, region bonuses provide a marginal increase in profitability - one certainly not worth gambling 600k CC and forfeiting self governance for.
Sure...they have a congress, and can now have a "government". But really, what can they do of their own accord? Have they gained anything they couldn't do previously? Maybe if you are hardcore into role playing and say they cannot legitimately make decisions without a proper congress then you have a point, but the fact of the matter is that the CP can make the same decisions when wiped. It may not be the will of the people - but it can be as illustrated by Homer's EO, as well as national votes/referendums.
I don't foresee eCanada breaking through eSpain any time in the future on our own. Rather than capitulating to outrageous terms, we need to improve relations with Spain, as well as other nations that can rally behind our push.
We don't need to forsake Asgard, but we certainly need to work on how we are viewed to major players in the game such as the eUS.
My thoughts exactly.
Indeed.
I agree the terms surrendering Portugal's diplomacy to Spain is bad, but it has opened my eyes to how we must change now before that becomes us, we have to have diplomacy open with Spain, just fighting will get us nowhere. I want to avoid this fate for eCanada, and that is why I have written.
What you have seen with Portugal is exactly what Spain has in mind for us. They have no intention of negotiating, they are on a high from being the uncontrolled schoolyard bully.
To avoid being permanently wiped, that is the question. A possible solution is to continue to be patient and focus on being a good ally. eSpain will trip up, alliances always change, and it will come to pass that eSpain's position will weaken to the point where eCan can take advantage of it. The key is for eCan to position itself in the meantime to take advantage of it.
Smiting ePortugal is not a good way to position ourselves to take advantage.
I would prefer not to sacrifice the autonomy of the nation in exchange for some regions. I would rather be wiped and maintain my autonomy than do that.
I have been eUS and I have been eIndian, and I much prefer being eCanadian even when the country is wiped.
maybe you should ask someone how the last negotiation went with Spain
they are immature money hungry jackles
Paying out CC to buy back regions is one thing, but forcing you to follow certain alliances and essentially turning into a colony is another thing.
The line was definitely crossed.
Being wiped is more boring than what ePortugal has now. They've gained new allies, their revenue back and their Congress back. I ask, what did they have to lose? Our respect? Pfft...
Why would they need our respect when they have a new set of allies?
They lost the ability to run the country their way.
Sure, one could argue that they lost that ability the moment they became occupied, but the point was made that they still had their CP. Sure, it was like they were shackled, but they still had a voice. Now, with this treaty, they're nothing more than a puppet, a province of the Spanish Empire. They're told what to do, when to do it and how, and if it doesn't impress the Conquistadors, then the treaty becomes dust, and they're back to square one, only they're hit even harder.
I may not be well versed in the current political environment, seeing as how I've been in two-click mode the past 2 months, but Schools out, I'm back, and I'm getting caught up.
From what I see, and correct me if i'm wrong, We're facing the barrels end of the Spanish blunderbuss. We can either fight for what is ours, or bow down to President Poggo, and allow his cold hands up our arse to become his puppet just as Portugal has become. Needless to say, I'd rather my Arse free of Spanish Hands.
They haven't earned the respect of their new allies, they chose to accept the terms of slavery over the tribulations of occupation. IMO, eSpain broke their will.
This is a game, ATM, I have more "fun" maintaining than I anticipate I would being a colony/slave of eSpain.
RL parallel; you can buy sex from a prostitute, but it isn't love. I would rather go without sex and focus on finding love than accepting the price of sex demanded from a prostitute.
Relations have improved with Spain. (It's not like we could get any worse than Rylde talking to them.) Negotiations have not improved, and by the looks of it, it will continue to do so.
While it's true that one victory against Spain is obviously not enough, especially considering game mechanics, giving up would be the last thing we want to do. How many Canadians would be happy with the deal Portugal received? We would easily lose at least a third of our active population! Sure Portugal gets regions back and a congress but what is the significance of a 'treaty' that tells you to support enemies for freedom? It seems like Portugal has lost more than what they had when they were wiped.
I don't think we will see a free Canada for a little while now, diplomacy is our only option unless like you said Auk, we have a strong savior (ie. USA). Only fighting will get us no where but giving up is not for us, we don't seem to be the folk that give up. We just need to find the right mix to set us straight.
Or have a baby boom.
What is CoT's stance on this anyway?
Aren't they just turning a blind eye, just like Poland-Russia atm?
This game fragmented with the emergence of Terra. This created three viable alliances and a "rock, paper, scissors" situation which evolved into a "rock, rock, paper" situation. One alliance plays kingmaker in the international arena.
A three alliance system isn't stable, we only need to be patient and CoT/TWO will develop issues and create "rock, paper, scissors" again.
The key is to position eCan to take advantage when that time comes. Be a good ally, act with integrity.
Why do you want peace in a war game.
The going rate for peace with Spain seems to be climbing so what exactly do you suggest Auk?
would you be ok with giving Spain regions?
would you be ok with giving Spain cash?
would you be ok with signing MPP's with TWO nations?
eCanadians shout for a war everytime we are at peace and when we get a war some cant wait to bend over and give peace a chance.
My personal hopes are that maybe we can stand for something instead of bending over for anything and maybe we can encourage the States to play a bigger part in our own liberation as there are alot of Americans who remember and would like to get back to when we were the closest of allies.
Either way, imho, being wiped but fighting on is way better then the alternative and you scoff at pride and honor when after you click the button a few times thats really all thats left for a country
I say fight on!
If you could read (which I highly doubt, considering it's trollfire here) I don't want to be a slave, I don't want to resign our diplomacy to a foreign power, I want us to be free and independent, but I recognize the futility of using the military as a means to that end. We should negotiate now for a conditional surrender. It is better that we temporarily are hurt, but have the means to rebuild ourselves later. Continuing the path we are traveling will only lead to a battered, broken and shattered eNation and we will be no better than how Portugal has turned out