I'm Afraid of this Ghost
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by Funky 24
What is more important for a Country President than deciding what alliance his or her country should join? Apart from deciding on a new Natural Enemy or actually deciding to run for CP, there’s really nothing that matches such a decision.
Which is why I am disappointed with how not one of our CP Candidates spoke to the public about how they would proceed with the most pertinent issue of this term: Going from trial to full members of the Asgard alliance. Unless you hold Rylde and Rolo as your standard for proceeding with critical issues, then it is unacceptable to be unable to provide a complete argument for joining Asgard other than because it’s what we are already doing. That’s not a mandate to have to proceed.
Regardless, our new CP has decided to that because there were no opposing platforms on the subject, he hath decreed that there will be a Congressional poll/vote on the issue of full membership, with 66% (presumably) being the threshold. Like Lazarus, the Congress members from the January 25 election, have been summoned back. There are a number of problems with this. The first is that all of these Congress members are in fact, unelected. They are not more special than you or me, in fact I’m probably more legitimate person as a Top 5 Party President to provide Homer his token support to vote on full membership, but alas, we need “a” Congress to vote on this according to Asgard. This Congress does not currently exist.
Unless you count the President as a Congress member. The game doesn’t, but it does give him a vote in administration mechanics, such as taxes. If that is your interpretation… then it gets tricky. Both Sweden and Finland were wiped when voting on Asgard, so they created a roleplaying Congress like the one we have, so obviously a President’s whim is not good enough for our allies to decide about full membership.
We ought to have a different opinion on how legitimacy is acquired however, to have a superior opinion to show our new allies that for a new regional alliance of only 3 low-end middle powers, real legislative support is essential to make us united, even as we are constantly overrun.
The status quo, needs to be maintained. Military strategy may be the Executive’s job, but joining Asgard should be the job of a Congress, a real one. Trial membership must be extended until we have the citizenry’s legislature back. Anything else is just steamrolling through an important issue, something we should hold ourselves above. This isn’t another tax debate. This is about deciding to permanently align ourselves with two nations weaker than us, and nobody else indefinitely. I urge all the forum users calling themselves Congress members right now to know that they have no right deciding this doom with their token support.
I’m fine with trial membership where not only we remain a selfless ally trying to prove our worth, but we at the same time keep our options flexible rather than set in stone just as TWO and CoT begin sending damage against each other in significant amounts.
If Homer wants to go full membership now, then it should be presented to Asgard as of his account alone or until Asgard helps deliver us a real Congress, not this morbid ghost Congress.
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"4. To respect, recognize and uphold the supremacy of the mechanics of the game"
From the erep wiki on "alliances"
After the law is accepted, a second law will be sent to the congress of the invited country for the congress/country president to vote on.
It would appear that game mechanics will permit Homer, as the sole vote holder in the vote on the second law, to accept eCan's membership into Asgard.
At least Homer is seeking input into the decision and outlining a process of role play whereby he will carryout his game-play. It may offend some that the extent of the inclusiveness does not encompass each citizen but to be candid, each citizen is not that engaged and 100% inclusiveness would not necessarily provide additional value, proportionately speaking.
Homer is doing an admirable job handling a difficult situation without an in-game congress.
That would imply that the alliance's procedure for new members is irrelevant.
You are correct, "the supremacy of the mechanics of the game" takes priority of the role play laid out by alliances to govern their membership.
One step at a time...
"...then it is unacceptable to be unable to provide a complete argument for joining Asgard other than because it’s what we are already doing."
I agree that it is nonsensical to do something just because that is what you are doing but that understates the situation we find ourselves in. eCan's credibility on the foreign stage is at stake here. eCan has made some mistakes in foreign affairs and it cannot be understated how much damage was done in the eUS whistle blowing incident. eCan has already committed itself to a relationship with Asgard based on seeking trial membership.
The right thing to do, from an integrity standpoint, is to see the Asgard option through and make the best of it, make it work, and grow the alliance.
If Asgard rejects eCan, then eCan is much more able to carry on and explore options with its integrity and international credibility intact. It is Asgard's loss, not eCan's loss.
If eCan rejects Asgard during the trial membership, it smells bad, it suggests that we lack loyalty and commitment. Of course, one could argue that the alliance didn't do much for eCan and we were wiped during that trial membership, but the counter-argument was that we should have known that a two country alliance of less than 3,000 people wouldn't provide much protection against that in the first place. The obvious counter-argument to that is that eCan's leadership led us down a garden path without a mandate from the country, but that is also the price that a nation pays for a careless approach to electing leaders.
Asgard is the hairshirt that eCan must wear.
Just to clarify Funky, I am more special then you. Don't believe me? Go ask my Mom.
I'm the most special in here. : P
Neither of you are GrapeJuice and thus you are far less special than myself, the one and only GrapeJuice.
Notes from an outsider:
The importance of a congress, in this instance, lies chiefly in its deliberative capacity: the advise part of “advise and consent”. The president is attempting to obtain advice. The choice of advisors is theoretically his alone. He could just choose yes men. Instead, he chooses to take advice from a group which was previously elected, but NOT based upon their position about Asgard. That is actually very good. The assumption is that congressmen were appointed by Party Presidents because of their native ability: to think things through, contribute constructively to debating policy and finding solutions that are beneficial. This is old style democracy: candidates “elected” to exercise independent judgment.
The outcome of deliberation will be better if all sides of the issue are presented forcefully. Efforts should therefore be made to ensure that the “anti-Asgard” position has fearless proponents. Thought should be given to inviting additional members who can argue that case ferociously. The invitation can be extended by the president or by the old congressmen themselves. The objective is to come together: have a useful, constructive debate and come to a resolution: to advise and, yes, to consent.
[removed]
Strength and Honour
Again, you argument is based on a tenet, that is part of a party platform (probably written by yourself). The CPF is Canada's largest party, yes, but it at best, only represents about 30% of the eCan population. You have every right to your opinion. If you are against full membership to Asgard, that's your prerogative, but this whole game mechanics vs. role playing argument has less to do with Asgard and more to do with upcoming CPF PP election.
Even if you are an avid role player, Homer is making an effort to get input.
"Both Sweden and Finland were wiped when voting on Asgard, so they created a roleplaying Congress like the one we have, so obviously a President’s whim is not good enough for our allies to decide about full membership."
Im confused...in ODC isnt this exactly what Homer is proposing.
Also even if we had a "real" Congress Im sure each party would have roughly the same representation and that the vote for or agaisnt would end up the same either way.
And if none of that is good enough we can always just go by the national referendum that Wilhelm Gunter did where the majority of active eCanadians that give a shit voted in favour of Asgard...sure things of changed but I havent seen any antiAsgard articles out there stating a case, just a few comments here and there that get next to no attention
Is this article anti-Asgard? No. Would the election results have been different? Unlikely, though forum participation would be a lot higher. Don't get me started on the referendum...
oh I know its not antiAsgard
what im saying is what difference does any of it make how we become a member as long as we follow whatever made up rules or precedence that are laid out before us
I think I get what your saying that an elected Congress would make it more legit but who is going to call us out?
eCanadians down the road unhappy with the bumps we might sustain. Surely it would be better to have a Congress elected with this issue on their mind than the group right now that isn't registering any debate, apart from the question I told my caucus to ask?
If eCanadians down the road are unhappy with whatever bumps there are I assume its pretty easy to leave an alliance.
It would be better to have an elected Congress decide the issue but we dont have one and maybe wont for awhile. Congress is elected by the people (chuckle) to represent them but in the absence of a congress can we not just work off what it seems is the will of the majority of eCanadians, maybe ratify it or not down the road when we do have a congress
Its usually not the person looking for a job that questions his qualifications during an interview but the job of the employer, as long as the employer is happy with the qualifications what does it matter
It's your risk to proceed this way. Asgard is certainly full of risk.
@Funky, can you just clear things up a little? Is your opposition to joining Asgard or to my procedures? If it is my procedures, then so be it, you're entitled to your opinion. If it is to joining Asgard, then please state your reasons.
@olivermellors, there has been plenty of opportunity for all views to be expressed both in game and on the forums.
Latter. The article's suggestion after all, is to simply extend our trial membership until we have an elected Congress to vote on this.
If we remain a trial member then we remain without a vote, meaning no solid say in the direction of the alliance. It will also leave the other members unsure of our intentions and less able to move the alliance forward.
Intention: Get a real Congress to vote on full membership. Alliance's decision making: Uncompromised if we do not have a vote 😉
I would argue that their long term planning is compromised by us remaining as a trial member. How can they plan the next level of expansion if they are uncertain whether a key player is serious about the alliance and will be sticking around?
This article is in no way against Asgard.
Funky just wants to see an elected congress vote on this.
...which could be a little ways away at the moment.
If Asgard sees no issue with the way we are proceeding and Funky is in fact, not anti-Asgard, what is the point of this article? I get that he feels uncomfortable with the fact that there is no Congress this month, but the member states of Asgard are not hung up on that fact, so what does it matter?
The point of the article is that he doesn't want unelected congressmen to decide our fate. That's all, a whole role playing thing I guess.
Well, because Funky wants things done the way he thinks they should be. Never mind what right or what others want.
@klop
our fate isnt being decided by an ingame vote but a role play vote
I get it
I just dont see that it matters much
Hey, its Funky you should talk to, not me
There are many arguments for both sides on whether we should vote or not, based on roleplay etc.
but Funky scares me a wee bit
I take umbrage with your 'unelected' congress-members statement. These congressers were elected, only it was last month.
Well put Funky. While I have no particular issue with Asgard, this seems like a rushed judgement that may not be in the best interest of eCanada. This is a decision that should be made once we have a real Congress again.
It's barely rushed when we've been a trial member since January.
Again, with no particular disrespect towards Asgard... How well has that turned out for us?
I'm not pro-Asgard, but I would blame that on poor leadership rather than Asgard.
Poor leadership played a major role, but Asgard wasn't there to help us out either...
Sure they were to some degree. We were dwarfed in that battle regardless.
I'm puzzled. You don't ELECT congressmen.
The party president decides who they will be.
The only thing citizens do is choose the NUMBER which will come from each party.
errrrrr..... so what's the problem with the unelected congressmen doing the job which would be done by the unelected congressmen if there was an election???
Just because they can't select who is on the ballot, doesn't mean they don't elect Congress members. By your definition, we don't elect CPs either.
may not be important but the obvious difference is that in CP elections a vote is cast for a specific individual. In congressional elections a vote is cast for a specific party, not individual. Party presidents could create a slate today and there would be as much legitimacy to a congress. The trick would be to determine who gets how many members. But it is beside the main point which is to find a group which fairly represents and advocates the competing arguments on the issue. Homer is attempting to do that. The group may have to be fine tuned but surely ecanada isn't paralyzed by occupation: that would be a self inflicted injury. Time for me to keep quiet now, but thank you for your patience with an old fool.
kind regards
Run for president funky or shut the f*** up basically. Have heard to many years of critisism and little to no actionfrom you.
Any moron can build a party and a following look at me.
Take the next step or be a footnote of a do nothing piece of S*** who's greatest strength is complaining against those who try to take the next step to try to do.
Indeed.
It does not take any form of academic achievement to become the CP of a fictitious eNation. Wither or not someone did a good job or not is laughable. You should expect this.
There are so many posts about this "alliance" issue, and the individual’s motives behind badgering this "alliance" topic is inane. I would think people are buttering the populace to get their CP medal. Nothing wrong with this, you're just playing the game here.
But does it really take this much deliberation? I think some people in cabinet feel they are really running an actual nation and feel important, but there really isn't much internet-merit to denote this sense of importance. This GAME is not that complicated. It is a numbers game. We will always lose because the game is run by the largest group of members.
We are janitors in a company, not the CEO's. And I'm sorry if you don't agree with my opinion, but it is the fact of the matter. This games CEO's are the countries that have the most subscribers. And if you think that any form of deliberation will change the coding of this web-game then you are immensely deluded.
We all know CoTWO will have their end-all battle. Lets just join a side now, have that happen, and move onto the next story.
If this were real life, then I'd stand up for what I believe in and say "fuck the enemy, I'll die for my country and its culture", but its a game. Let just move onto the fun part already.
Elect whichever "high-school kid who uses the money from their part-time job to buy Gold", into congress to be the CP of eCanada. Sign the bitch-treaty or whatever with the big boys and lets get to doing shit.
If anyone calls bloody-murder on your eReputation, have a laugh, buy some Gold, and RW their shit. Or keep writing posts. That is what this game is here for. Writing lots of posts and buying Gold for the 10 minutes of eBadass it gets you.
Tell us what you really think Merc 😛
I was in highschool, 21 years ago and I bought gold, once, in V1
I'm all for waiting for a high school kid to buy gold to lead us forward.
Course we'll be waiting a loooooooooong time idiot.
hey funky
Hi.