[Plato] Plato the Alchemist Turns Gold Into Cash
Day 2,576, 13:55
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Published in USA 
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by
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by Gnilraps
Diamonds and Gold (Mandatory listening)
Day 2576 of the New World
09 December, 2014
Plato listens to us after all.
In one of my recent articles, I criticized Plato for creating the Freedom Fighter and Mercenary medals (I could have just as easily added True Patriot, but I missed the boat). I made a fair case that Medals such as these, with their lucrative Gold rewards, helped to kill off the community feeling (and a few other things) in this game. Plato must have agreed.
Today he announced that there will be no more Gold rewards for those three Medals.
We must first at least recognize, with a modicum of appreciation, that the mighty Philosopher has at least given us a month of warning. This, too, is nearly unprecedented. It is greatly welcome.
Never before has Plato modified a medal by removing Gold as the reward and replacing it with CC. But he has certainly modified Gold rewards in the past.
For instance, it used to be that you were rewarded 5 Gold for leveling up starting with level 16 (through level 24 after which higher Gold rewards were originally promised). Those prizes are now obviously reduced to 1Gold. So Plato has messed with rewards before. But this is the first time he has ever converted a reward from Gold to CC. And this is a very significant point.
Plato is attempting to address one of the primary problems with this game: there's too much Gold floating around.
For lack of a better word, we have to refer to the markets in eRepublik as its “economy”. And the number one problem with the eRepublik economy is that it is swimming in Gold.
A proliferation of Gold might seem good on one level. Players like having easy access to Gold so that they can buy a company and start self-supplying. This is good, right?
Hell no, it isn’t good.
Now I realize I am going to take some criticism for this point, but I will go on record as saying that making Gold more difficult to come by is an improvement in this game. I do not want it to be so incredibly easy for every player to be able to buy his own company and self-supply. I want players to need the markets. I want the companies I own to produce something that can actually sell at a profit!
Let’s examine the problem from the extreme. If everyone owned enough companies to self-supply all their needs, there would be ZERO MARKET for ANYTHING. And as easy as it is to accumulate 35 Gold, it’s no wonder that the Raw Materials markets are crap… Everyone and his multi has RM companies.
In real life, there isn’t an unlimited supply of Raw Materials for anything. There are a finite number of oil-producers in the world. Thus, there is a market for oil. In eRepublik, if I were stupid enough, I could buy 2,400 Raw Materials companies, just work in them as Manager, and flood the markets. We all could. And the result? Raw Materials would not be worth the $0.01 they’d be listed for. That is what has been happening in eRepublik forever. (And so I wish Plato would make companies themselves a commodity rather than simply something you can create out of thin air.)
OK, so obviously there is still a slim market for Raws. And Housing Raws particularly are more robust because there is no WAM feature. (This, too, was a very wise move by Plato, creating an industry immune to the cancerous WAM feature.) But as more and more people save up enough Gold to upgrade their weapons company to Q7, Q7 weapons prices will drop more and more. It’s inevitable. But Plato doesn’t have to make it so damned easy.
I don’t exactly know how many TP, FF, and Merc medals the average player is earning in a given month. I grabbed a semi-randomly chosen member of EZC, Division 2, for an example.
Shmoop
Shmoop has had periods of activity and he has taken some breaks. So maybe he’s somewhat representative of the average casual eRep player.
Shmoop has made 3 Mercenary medals, 17 Freedom Fighter medals, and 24 True Patriot medals. So that is 44 total medals times 5 Gold each. Shmoop has made 220 Gold just from these three medals. That would be roughly enough to upgrade a Q1 weapons factory to Q5 during a promotional sale.
And so on the surface it would seem that Plato has made it a little bit harder for people to upgrade their factories. For this I am glad.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ll miss the gold too. I have made 4,150 Gold from these three medals.
But we have to ask ourselves if the average player (or for that matter if most players) are able to withdraw the 10 Gold limit each day from the monetary market. I am sure the answer is “no”. So a player like Shmoop might simply withdraw the gold from the monetary market. If enough players will do this, there could be a slight rise in the price of Gold. No great amount, but possibly enough to keep Gold above the 1K=5G benchmark. So perhaps Plato has robbed us all of a little bit of Gold. Maybe.
But what about the not-so-average players? What can we assume about this change based on what we can learn from examining available data?
In the past 7 days, the top 10 TP fighters in eUSA – just the top 10 in eUSA – have accounted for ~480 Gold (~96 TP medals). That is 480 Gold generated by these 10 players over 1 week. Under the new changes, instead of injecting 480 Gold into the system, these 10 players would theoretically be extracting at least a large fraction of that Gold from the system.
The 9,600,000,000 in True Patriot damage created by last week’s top 10 in eUSA represents just over 10% of the total damage produced by eUSA last week. Let’s, for fun, assume that the top 10 TP fighters from the other top 10 damage-producing nations also represent 10% of their damage totals as well. If so, that would mean somewhere around 1,700 True Patriot medals were awarded just to the top 10 players from just the top 10 Nations. Yes, that is 8,500 Gold in one week to just 100 players.
These top fighters are almost surely spending the lion’s share of this gold on Energy Bars, an appetite that cannot be otherwise satisfied. So it is not naïve to assume that they will be converting most of the CC they will be winning in TP medals into Gold once the switch happens.
So far we have extrapolated (rather recklessly) only the True Patriot data from only the top 10 players from only the top 10 Nations. Once you begin to add in the Mercenary Gold and the Freedom Fighter Gold, I believe it is possible that we will see an effect on the markets.
One last factor in this is the fact that damage totals continue to rise because strength statistics also continue to rise. Without a booster (a circumstance I almost never find myself in), I can make a True Patriot Medal with just 731 fights against a NE. So that’s 73 tanks (at a cost of roughly $400). In one month, that number will be reduced to just 720 clicks (and so on!). If I use a 50% booster that’s 480 clicks for a TP medal. See why it’s so easy for high-strength players to win TP Gold? If Plato didn’t do something about (at least) the True Patriot Gold awards, we really would be swimming in Gold. That is simply not good for this game.
What cannot be known is how many players will see this change and stop tanking.
Also, what will become of the “Combat Stash” which up until now awarded an additional 10% bonus Gold for those medals (making our earlier estimate of 8,500 a whopping 9,350!!!). Will Plato honor it with a revision including 10% CC bonus?
For more conversation on this, be sure to tune into eNPR tonight. It will likely be a main topic.
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(Custom) Tracker courtesy of Mike Ontry's Hit Tracker.
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Comments
I read the whole thing and now I have a headache
votatiano
so, we should expect to see a baby boom of multies being created to grab up the gold rewards before it goes away.
*Implying there's still people who bother to make multies*
good point
On the serious side, the general intolerance of multies is something that hasn't changed that much comparing to day one, risky risky
vote
You forget that this inative increases inequality, since this is no way to drain gold from the mighty old experienced players, and it limits the ability for newcomers to be substainable in for exemple ff hunting....
Exactly, it's all well and good for the old timers.
". I do not want it to be so incredibly easy for every player to be able to buy his own company and self-supply."
Okay. Please tell me how exactly, *without buying any gold*, this is even possible for every player to do within the first year of playing.
It may not be.
But it may be more possible for you to afford the things you need while you get there.
if you are smart enough..
I managed to upgrade all TGs in 10 months + a contract without buying any gold.
Luke, the discussion is based around companies, I have all my TGs upgraded for awhile now, but I am not self sufficient - I do not make any profits from companies.
you can turn the gold you get from BHs to cc to supply yourself.
it's easy as you are in div 1 with 27k str to get a BH. but it's not like every div 1 player can easily get a BH.
I'd agree with you, most players can't supply themselves except by buying it on the market or begging to some people or join a MU that can supply them.
upgrading companies is just too expensive. need 650 g to get a q7 weapon company and 200 g to get a q5 food company and you need raw companies as well.
This is also assuming all your stuff sells, which isn't that easy.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/551/682/85b.gif
What you wrote does make sense, but it includes an assumption of new players actually existing in this game. I don't really think that's the case. I believe the change has only one goal - to make whales whale more until the not so far away end.
So why do the 10 x gold for BH if the problem is too much gold?
You are correct. This is a contradiction in Plato's behavior. The same with the last Epic tournament which infused THOUSANDS of Gold in a day.
We know why Plato does the 10x. Because most people will spend more than 50 Gold worth of Energy Bars in pursuit of a BH on those days. Plato needs to deplete the supply prior to putting EBs back on sale.
You may have a point and could see that end but I doubt it. My guess is some reasons are Bc it increases activity, it also increases consumption of mainly weapons to keep price from falling. And possible other reasons but it gives people a reason to play another day also could be possible that it actually takes gold out if lets say you have multiple players competing for it and they all use energy bars bought with gold. But main reason is Bc it probably increases their revenue since more ppl will by war packs and stuff like that
bad article - admins do 10x gold for bh quite often so it means it is not a problem of lot of gold in game it is an issue that players buy less gold from admins this is the real reason, overall less players in game - less gold sold from admins... and now they just want to make more money from all of us with this update///
I believe admins do 10x BH to deplete the EB supplies and encourage gold purchase. Obviously.
I don't think Plato is concerned about PURCHASED gold. Plato is concerned about decreasing EARNED gold.
Lastly, Whale Gold Tanks spend their Gold on EB's, not on companies. They have less effect on the economy, they are sort of an economy unto themselves. These changes do more to effect the general economy.
Good read.
off the cuff...
I think it will hurt the new player and punish the old.
o7
Question to Plato
STUPIDNESS OR NONSTUPIDNESS
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/2475890/1/20
v not sure this will help players .. maybe game should just be restarted everyone at zero ;0
And anyone that ever bought gold would quit overnight. No more cash for poor Plato.
🙁
lol I was not serious bud
😉
you have my vote Sir, spoken with the truth.
And.. to make my comment, I dont dislike the idea of give CC instead of gold, but... for the future that will hit the economy a bit because now to get gold will be harder so companies will be like before, hard to get.
Top quality media.
vote
So the medals that eat up EBs do not give the gold to buy more.
Seems legit.
Normally I agree with you but in this instance I believe it is only self serving to the Company ( eRep Labs ) and doesn't seem worth the loss. Now I no longer have a reason to fight. Granted yes Tanks have gotten so large I probably wont be able to catch up but never the less it sets a bad precedent. I don't believe it is a good move for customer satisfaction.
oor simply not implementing Q4 traning + strength rewards in the weekly turnament
but hey they never listen so they do it the hard way
btw the day they convert this mess is a day off "bugs day"
plato want to kill this game 😛
So, you agree to this change, Gnil?
Maybe I am more optimistic about this change than others. New players can be in a commune that gives supplies for lower wages, they can save any cc they earn from medals, and convert to gold to upgrade TCs. As an old player, I remember when there were fight caps, less ways to get gold, and more community. Granted, I don't ever see Plato giving up on pushing gold sales (and admit it, they saturate the home screen now) But any new players we get won't know what it was like to get gold instead of cc anyway. Just as new players now don't remember the nostalgic V1.
It all boils down to the 10g/day limit forcing people to buy gold.
Everything else is a side thing.
I'll disagree with you here, the problem is not too much gold in circulation, nor too much currency... By the way the game is awash with both as the player population has gone down drastically but the money they have generated is largely in circulation as generally players tend to "spend it", basically pass it on before they leave. Thus you have less players with the same amount of money in circulation.
The problem is energy, it's constant inflation which allows anyone and everyone eventually to become self sufficient and with COs now, it's not really a problem to save money and build companies for pretty much anyone as long as they're relatively active. The admins continue to inflate the energy hoping that it will increase consumption, but in reality they increase overproduction, because energy can be used unlimited for both production and fighting (consumption).
Generally players will produce (invest) first and then fight (consume) later. So in a situation where everyone produces and everyone consumes, you cannot get to a economy where you have any sort of deficit at best you're at par. Especially with a dwindling population this exasperates that.
There is one simple way to fix this and it's limiting the amount of energy that can be used daily for production/working instead of increasing it as has been done with the house industry the effect from which will disappear within the next few months and make the economy even worst than it is now.
The other problem is the distribution/redistribution of money, right now it is highly tilted to the old accounts through accumulated strength, because of the way TP medals and CO are designed. So seeing their statement that the TP medals did not achieve what they set out to do, namely help newer players, only shows their complete lack of understanding of anything connected to the mechanics they have actually built.
As long as CO is connected directly to "amount" of damage dealt and TP is based on fixed "amount" of damage dealt, that will remain true. The more in the economy gets concentrated in few accounts, the lower the consumption, much like in RL especially as over consumption is mostly in purchasing candy bars which actually adds energy at a steep cost and removes much less produced products along the way.
The way to change that is simple again, make basic CO be based on hits and have an additional part of it, which rewards "amount" of damage, thus allowing for a differentiated redistribution through COs. The reason you make the basic for hits, is to force it to be used.
Change TP medals to a set number of hits (1500) for example rather then 100 million. Then gold income and CC CO income will get spread more among the whole community and consumption will actually go up.
Lastly to increase consumption of weapons you need to kill the 24/7 battles as they no longer motivate players to really fight and spend money for it, as no single battle really has much meaning. Fewer battles will bring in more engagement and thus more spending for weapons.
But you need to look at the reason behind COs. People don't make COs to subsidise their population. COs are posted because people want to win wars.
That is why you force the "per hit" component of the CO and you leave the "per damage" component optional.
As a game designer you have to build the mechanics of the game in such a way to guarantee stability and ability for all players to get enjoyment and be able to participate in the game.
How they win wars is their problem, empowering a few through the mechanics at the expense of the majority is the devs problem as it will sooner or later drive away enough players as to force the game into a contractional spiral and eventually die. We're already in the spiral mode, at some point a critical level will be passed beyond which the game will be unsalvageable, we're not too far from it already.
is this.. less bad.. for new and new-ish players, because it's only taking away rewards they generally can't achieve anyways?
It really seems by far MOST bad for older players.
actually it's worst for newly christened D4 players, let's say "intermediate", as this is their easiest and fastest way to accumulate gold to build companies with which they can become self sufficient.
The older ones already have enough companies or gold accumulated to be self sufficient if they didn't do something stupid, but those entering D4 now, after saving on XP accumulation in the lower divisions which meant not building up companies and not working in them are the ones that will find it harder now, especially if the price of gold goes up and the actual rewards become less in gold value.
The next group most effected is the ones I like to call the "candy bar" tanks/farmers, who then turn them into TP medals for gold and buy candy bars with them again, their daily inflow of gold will be cut, though the admins already experimented with a stash for 50 gold per day purchase and this is likely a move to create a market for it and nothing else.
It's bad for any player that is weak in their division. People like me who left and came back a few times. People who need gold to purchase training contracts, TG upgrades, etc.
Back to buying gold, I guess.
It will make strength training in the mu's even harder for newbies. I would not be surprised if there is a rush on gold soon.
That was somtheing completely different than the usual rants about how stupid Plato is! I like it!
"Plato is attempting to address one of the primary problems with this game: there's too much Gold floating around."
so that the amount of gold buyers will increase the moment he applies it..
IF the problem is that too much gold floating around by those three medals.
then why don't make it difficult to get the more you have it?
for example, in TP medals, after reaching 2b dmg, you need to do 200m dmg to get a TP,.
then, MM medals, after you have 15 medals, you need to another 50 kills for 50 different countries.
and it's an unbeatable argument that new players can't progress and they will quit after some weeks when plato implements this except if old fags helping them with some money(and the problem is, old fags always think that new players are multis)..